Making PvP trinket a baseline ability for all races

[Yilar]

I think it would be much better if they just disabled all racials from pvp, but I don't think that's going to happen.

[discoepfeand]

I support this thread's OP, and would like perception back as a human, and don't care which version - the constant or the "on use" version.

[hammock]

This is a good point, but the problem with building in the ability is PVE. Resilience no longer works in PVE so having it as a passive stat gained is fine, but giving everyone a CC breaker is going to make PVE balancing tricky again as I doubt Blizz currently factors in boss fights where everyone is human. One or two people in a 10 man raid, or even up to 4-5 in a 25 man sure, but when they put in bosses with the ability to CC people, they assume that most people are being hit by it and are incapacitated. Putting in a free CC breaker means that fights like CoT:Strat Malganis become pure EZ mode. The danger on that fight when it was new was that your healer might be put to sleep and your tank could die in the meantime. If every healer can break every form of CC at least once per boss fight, it makes it harder to challenge players since CC in PVE is much less common and is intended to be a pain when it happens.

As I said earlier though, I agree that PVP trinkets and weapons should be made more interesting. Keep the special armor that focuses on defenses, resilience, and set bonuses like it is now, but put in some PVP weapons and trinkets that have interesting procs and Use effects.



And to the guy talking about Gnome Mage FCs...You can still be feared and MC'd, even if you can break stuns often and roots/stuns slightly less often. Ice Block is a longer CD in PVP terms and even counting it, you're still very squishy. =)

Many mechanics already cannot be trinketed. So thats not a problem.

I leveled 3 characters through BGs, and two of them were non-human. I always get that trinket by level 20, it's the first thing to buy. Note though that this trinket, along with the heirloom version, has a 5 min cooldown, so the human racial is still superior.

A 5 min CD on those is frankly ridiculous.

OT: I'm all for it. It be great, and reduce alot of QQ. At the very least make it available on the horde side.

[EdisonTrent]

I think the number of times they've had to rebalance this racial says enough, it seems it's either ridiculously underpowered and therefore useless, or overpowered to the point where it seems more like necessity than an option.

It isn't the only racial like this, the Tauren 5% HP racial for example is rather negligible nowadays, but used to weigh very heavily in race selection if one wanted to be a tank. EMFH isn't the only racial in the game that needs to be replaced (or rethought), to say the least.

[Brofl]

On one hand I like the idea a lot if players used legitimate PvP trinkets, it makes it so people are less inclined to roll human just because of double trinkets, now on the other hand, because Blizzard is fucking dumb and never learns, all this is going to do is make people go for high end PvE trinkets for even more out of control burst.

We should be getting PvE gear out of PvP. I think they should introduce PvP trinkets that shorten specific CC durations allowing players to customize which CC's they want to reduce.

[Prostyle]

Step 1: Remove Every Man for Himself (Human)
Step 2: Add new passive racial for Humans
Step 3: Remove Will of the Forsaken (Undead)
Step 4: Add new passive racial for Undead
Step 3: Add the following abilities that act as a baseline PvP trinket with 2-minute cooldown

- Might of Mankind (Human)
- Gnomish Ingenuity (Gnome)
- Draenic Illumination (Draenei)
- Gilnean Fortitude (Worgen)
- Charge of the Kal'dorei (Night Elf)
- Heart of Iron (Dwarf)

- Orcish Fervor (Orc)
- Will of the Forsaken (Undead)
- Guile of the Goblin (Goblin)
- Boon of Bloodhoof (Tauren)
- Trollish Tenacity (Troll)
- Pride of the Sin'dorei (Blood Elf)

- Peace of the Pandaren (Pandaren)



Everyone gets a free PvP trinket, everyone gets to utilize 2 trinket slots, great success.

[Akoroth]

No, imo. Every Man For Himself has already made pretty much every class ridiculously OP because of that racial. Ever noticed how its only human rogues who are dropping you to 30% hp in a cheapshot kidney? Ever noticed how its only human hunters who do retarded dmg? I don't want every class to be OP. This is the same thing as warriors. Nerf the problem (EMFH), not buff the others to become more problems.

[Prostyle]

No, imo. Every Man For Himself has already made pretty much every class ridiculously OP because of that racial. Ever noticed how its only human rogues who are dropping you to 30% hp in a cheapshot kidney? Ever noticed how its only human hunters who do retarded dmg? I don't want every class to be OP. This is the same thing as warriors. Nerf the problem (EMFH), not buff the others to become more problems.

Except that it is not a problem if they distribute the currently OP Human Racial equally, then get to work on making sure that PvE gear never finds its way into (competitive) PvP environments again.


What Blizzard should realize:

- Having a 'PvP trinket' racial that is on a 2m CD is very nice, and players enjoy having access to it from level 1 without having to use up a gear slot. (GOOD)
- Prioritizing PvE trinkets for competitive PvP (thus inflating value of EMFH) causing 1 of 13 races to have a distinct advantage as a result. (BAD)

[EdisonTrent]

Except that it is not a problem if they distribute the currently OP Human Racial equally, then get to work on making sure that PvE gear never finds its way into (competitive) PvP environments again.


What Blizzard should realize:

- Having a 'PvP trinket' racial that is on a 2m CD is very nice, and players enjoy having access to it from level 1 without having to use up a gear slot. (GOOD)
- Prioritizing PvE trinkets for competitive PvP (thus inflating value of EMFH) causing 1 of 13 races to have a distinct advantage as a result. (BAD)

Perhaps PVP trinkets should have more of a benefit than just a bit of resilience, something that'll really make them worth taking over a PVE trinket in a PVP situation.

Maybe a set bonus for using two PVP trinkets in tandem, though it would have to be a very significant bonus to outweigh the benefits of having a very powerful PVE trinket. Something like a flat 5% damage reduction / increase versus players might do well to entice people to use them, and you could balance PVP around this increased / decreased damage value.

Hell, you could make them part of the standard PVP gear set, and have them required for that set bonus.

[Prostyle]

Perhaps PVP trinkets should have more of a benefit than just a bit of resilience, something that'll really make them worth taking over a PVE trinket in a PVP situation.

Maybe a set bonus for using two PVP trinkets in tandem, though it would have to be a very significant bonus to outweigh the benefits of having a very powerful PVE trinket. Something like a flat 5% damage reduction / increase versus players might do well to entice people to use them, and you could balance PVP around this increased / decreased damage value.

Hell, you could make them part of the standard PVP gear set, and have them required for that set bonus.

I like that idea very much. PvP trinkets should definitely be LOADED with resilience to make them very, very attractive.

You're right though, making a 2-set bonus for PvP trinkets that gives a strong buff would be very interesting indeed.

Also, what if there was a PvP trinket that allowed you to remove 1 CC effect from a friendly target? (would be really cool for non-healers)

[Baphomette]

PvP trinkets should definitely be LOADED with resilience to make them very, very attractive.

Well, they are, it's just that people value 450 points of their primary stat over 450 points of resilience because there's so much CC that they can get away with less damage reduction.

Resilience needs a buff, more CC need to share diminishing returns, and yes EMFH needs to be either baseline or removed.

[Khonorum]

hunter complaining about low level pvp wat?

[Kanggaxx]

I like that idea very much. PvP trinkets should definitely be LOADED with resilience to make them very, very attractive.

You're right though, making a 2-set bonus for PvP trinkets that gives a strong buff would be very interesting indeed.

Also, what if there was a PvP trinket that allowed you to remove 1 CC effect from a friendly target? (would be really cool for non-healers)

Cool idea indeed but it still doesnt stop the problem that some classes simply dont need as much resilience, and would probably still go for the pve trinkets.

I dont think just loading them with resilience will work. Why do people get the pve trinkets or even set bonuses and weapons? Base stats + insane procs.

We should have the 2 trinket set bonus give a buttload of base stats and/or extra damage procs, mimick a PvE trinket effect. With the trinkets themselves full with resil so they are still inferior to use in PvE.

And yes, make pvp trinket baseline or remove it from humans. Whoever thought of that racial and whoever didnt slap him should get slapped.

[raist474]

The problem with PvE trinkets is the procs like Kang pointed out. And they simply won't make PvP trinkets just as powerful because thery don't want people raiding so far with PvP gear. We've all ran into that one player who gets kicked despite their class/skill knowledge because of their PvP gear.

It depresses me that someone at blizzard thinks its okay that over 90% of high ranked players are Human if the faction-Class Option is open. The reason I quit serious PvP back in BC was because of the Racial Glass Ceiling, it bothered me that with a simple race change I could get a free extra 100 or so rating just being human.

[pinkz]

racials at one time were causing players to quit due to not wanting to reroll, etc. it was evident on wowforums years ago. for a long time horde rogues/druids complained about HU perception which gave like +200 stealth detect. the complaining about racials became even more prevalent in BC due to the introduction of arenas and even alliance had to face each other in arenas. then gnome, dwarf, NE joined the horde in with their complaints.

originally the stance on suggestions of race or faction change "would never happen". money changes everything in time

blizz pretty well has followed D&D rules by Gary Gygax in making sure HU race always edged up. in D&D you payed severely IMO for rolling other races and pretty much in WOW too.

thru out buffs and nerfs to racials of HU class, even when nerfed they are over re-buffed to compensate for example

perception +200 stealth detect 2 min CD nerfed to +1 stealth detect passive and EMFH....of course later +1 stealth was removed along with NE one too.

horde races imo have been not recompensated in the same manner such as undead

wotf 30 sec nerfed to 15 sec then 5 sec, then to 0 sec and has a CD/shared with trinket....worthless imo in PVP overall. rebuff on final nerf was +200% underwater breathing and old UD underwating breathing which was sufficient was given to every race. i read many rant about cannibalize, i find it worthless too in PVP...bandaging or eating cooked foods with buffs are far better.

after the nerf making UD worthless blizz added salt to the wounds with their newly added faction change which shows a UD with a arrow to a BE saying so you would rather be a blood elf. that was and still is LOL.

and finally i have 6 rogues: HU, UD, gnome, NE, BE, and troll (they were best at van-wow start until nerfed). imo HU and NE are best due to racial. my friend likes the worgen for the extra sprint

[scvd]

Now that everyone get's trinket racial, let's discuss the new human racial!

[kombucha]

I don't see the difference between making it baseline and removing it from the game entirely.

Originally there wasn't one at all...

---------- Post added 2012-02-14 at 12:57 PM ----------

Now that everyone get's trinket racial, let's discuss the new human racial!

"Chance on spell hit/melee attack/heal to have it's effect duplicated in full."

Fixed it.

[Distiller]

give humans perception back, perfectly fine if i loose the trinket.

[Mithgroth]

Nobody actually cares about low level pvp but I do agree.

Just because Insignias aren't a choice for PvP, they are no-brainers. I would love to have that baseline and have some other exciting trinkets.

[Escariot]

Why don't we just give everyone every single ability? Already in Mists of Fagtaria we have talent homogenization, and you want to give everyone CC break on top of it?
Why not just meld all classes together into one big almighty class? Let's remove any sorts of feeling to a race/class/profession and just give everyone everything!
That way all of us could be exactly the same!



Everyone who thinks this way should be banned from playing MMO's they are not for you. Just go jerk of to your ponnies.