Noxious Stings 10% Damage Bug

[Salvinn]

So decided to make another post about this, but this time in a new thread, gonna link to my earlier post and then explain the basics here.
Reason I'm making a new thread is basicly the other posts hardly got any attention at all and I'd rather make a new thread and get this bug fixed asap.
*Sorry it's not an actual link, only made this account to post about the bug*

mmo champion.com/threads/935597-Survival-Hunter-Guide-(4.3)?p=15210942#post15210942

Basicly I've been noticing a 10% damage difference on most of the abilities compared to the other similarly geared SV hunter in my raid.
After searching for the cause of this problem, I managed to track it down to difference in glyphs. With this info and alot more *so many hours on wol* I concluded that Noxious Stings was only applying the 10% damage buff to one of the hunters in the raid at a time. With difference in glyphs it was possible to get extra damage on one of the hunters all the time, while currently me and the other hunter get it 50/50 throughout fights, when both using the same glyphs.
At this point with everything I've gathered im sure it's basicly just that, a bug that only gives one of the SV hunters in the raid the 10% damage buff from noxioius stings. I'm not sure if it affects every double SV hunter raiders out there, but I'm sure it applies to me and my guildie.

[Herecius]

Unflagged your post since it got caught in the moderation system, so here's a free bump.

Also, that's an interesting thing to claim, and I'd want to see some logs of that; how are you so sure that the reason you're doing 10% less damage than the other hunter is purely because of Noxious Stings?

[Dafft]

Regarding the discrepancy, I believe we've experienced something similar.

In our raid group - when I get the chance to raid - we have two hunters, me who plays either BM or rarely Surv & our second hunter who has better gear in some cases and plays Surv only (Prior to last sunday he was using the X-Bow and recently got his Vishanka) and the main difference between us is that I have 4set - 2xLFR & 2xNorm vs his 2set Norm and my full epic gems vs his mix epic/rare gems. On average I have 393 vs his 397 yet in raids I constantly outperform him.

At first, I put this down to playstyle, knowledge of class, gem & gear choices & as such offered the various tips that I felt could improve his performance - but now after reading your post I wonder if we may also be experiencing what you've experience - I'll have to check our logs out though

[Futon]

Regarding the discrepancy, I believe we've experienced something similar.

In our raid group - when I get the chance to raid - we have two hunters, me who plays either BM or rarely Surv & our second hunter who has better gear in some cases and plays Surv only (Prior to last sunday he was using the X-Bow and recently got his Vishanka) and the main difference between us is that I have 4set - 2xLFR & 2xNorm vs his 2set Norm and my full epic gems vs his mix epic/rare gems. On average I have 393 vs his 397 yet in raids I constantly outperform him.

At first, I put this down to playstyle, knowledge of class, gem & gear choices & as such offered the various tips that I felt could improve his performance - but now after reading your post I wonder if we may also be experiencing what you've experience - I'll have to check our logs out though

That sounds like a skill problem. Also you say you raid as BM and him as survival, so you wouldn't have noxious stings anyways. Your gear difference is not that vast, so if you are a more skilled hunter, you will win.

As for the original post, you'er gonna need some logs, not sure how you could possibly prove that though.

[Dunee]

I've heard claims of this before, and the drew in people using the glyph imp serp sting giving them better dps.. but again I couldn't see anything of that liking.

[Spiralphoenix]

Go test it on a dummy untouched by anyone else. Like one in Ironforge or Undercity. Group with him, both of you unequip everything cept ranged, have him apply his SrS first then you yours, use a consistent damage ability. Let them fall off, then reverse order of SrS application and repeat.

[Dald]

I've been noticing this for a time. Another Hunter in my group, equal iLvl, both with Vish bow and his Arcane Shots were critting for 37-38k while mine were doing 29-32k tops, crit of course. Both have roughly the same mastery and identical trinkets, roughly the same agility, etc.

Happened in a BH pug, too.

[Futon]

I've been noticing this for a time. Another Hunter in my group, equal iLvl, both with Vish bow and his Arcane Shots were critting for 37-38k while mine were doing 29-32k tops, crit of course. Both have roughly the same mastery and identical trinkets, roughly the same agility, etc.

Happened in a BH pug, too.

Could be they have procs up for those crits and you didn't. You need to do quality testing to figure out if these claims are legit.

[Craif]

This interesting idd, assuming you have some more evidence i.e. Logs. It's not like hunters haven't experienced things like this before (Exp trap in 4.0 anyone) and if this proves to be true then we need to plead to Blizzard, I don't wanna be outdps'd in LFR because someone else gets buff and I don't. And just think about how no 25-mans would bring more than maximum 1 hunter anymore..

[Herecius]

Anecdotal evidence of 'this other hunter I know is almost always doing exactly 10% less than me' isn't going to cut it, this kind of claim would need logs to back it up, and a lot of them.

[Salvinn]

There are quite alot of logs in the link I gave, wasn't actually gonna repost everything because it's already in these forums somewhere else. Also the post I linked to is a reply to another person who gave another 5 orso logs that seemed to have the same problem.

[Herecius]

There are quite alot of logs in the link I gave, wasn't actually gonna repost everything because it's already in these forums somewhere else. Also the post I linked to is a reply to another person who gave another 5 orso logs that seemed to have the same problem.

No, in order to verify this kind of thing, you'd need many logs of the same two hunters to make any sort of consistent judgement.

[Salvinn]

The logs I currently have show an entire night of ultraxion whipes where I did not benefit from the 10% damage buff. These logs are in the original post. The 10% damage diff was broken as soon as I changed glyphs the next night, we've been using the same glyphs making our damage the same, but neither of us can reach the level reached by the higher one when there was a damage difference. Notable exception was last wednesday when I went MM on ultraxion at which point the other hunter jumped up several K higher on dps then either of us had ever had on ultraxion before.

[Herecius]

The logs you linked are all on various Ultraxion heroic attempts, most of them not lasting past 3 minutes... that's really not enough of a log to make any assertions, as the time is far too short and allows for RNG, especially considering you guys don't have the same gear (and the logs indicate the other hunter is using the DW bow and you are not). I'm afraid there's no magic bullet here having to do with Noxious Stings being incorrectly applied.

[Salvinn]

There's hardly any RNG on explosive shot damage, the damage it does is pretty much directly calculated through stats and all, meaning even during just the CD phase, aprox 20 seconds, it represents the diff between stats and all and is not in any way related to RNG.

[Mosphet]

This actually intrigued me alot, myself and Kibu had some Ultraxion kills where his shots were doing slightly higher damage than mine and I was the one with the better gear (Noting that this was before the patch). This might explain that now if what you suggest is true. I'll grab Kibu when he's online and we'll report back later.

EDIT: You know what this reminds me of? Explosive trap when only 1 hunter could get the DoT applied \o/

[Malackai]

I remember something similar happening with the DK's back in WOTLK

The decease could only be applied by one DK so if you had 2 Unholy DK in the raid one got screwed over if the other managed to get his buff on the boss first.

I wouldn't be surprised if something similar is now happening on the hunter side (since it works on the application of serpent sting).

I noticed yesterday during our raid that one of the survs was way pulling way ahead during Zonozz.
I know zonozz is not the most really reliable.

but it was interesting since both of them are usually equally in terms of dps with a small fluctuation even on zonozz

[Destard]

suggest you to try w/o gear and a fixed-damage weapon

[SkyBlueAri]

There's hardly any RNG on explosive shot damage, the damage it does is pretty much directly calculated through stats and all, meaning even during just the CD phase, aprox 20 seconds, it represents the diff between stats and all and is not in any way related to RNG.

Its really irrelevant since your playstyles (among other things) may differ, not to mention this is all heresay. Id want to see the above guys proposal of you two hammering it out on a test dummy with no gear but ur bow equipped so there is no chance of any of changing factor.

[itzaic]

Well, I honestly thought this was just another "my dps is low it must be something wrong with the game!" type post. BUT, it does look like something it wrong.

For these logs I had an mid level hunter on a second account I could spec into Noxious Sting to test with. I had removed any proc type equipment including my trinkets, kiril, and vish. I only used serpent sting in these logs because it had a static damage and easy to pick up difference in damage. It effected all other shots from what I could tell. (Can't post links yet so.)

worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-q55fs7bb3igt057d/xe/?x=(spell+%3D+"Serpent+Sting"and+targeticon+%3D+ICON_MOON)

[10:30:41.510] Training Dummy afflicted by Serpent Sting from Atrakinze
[10:30:44.510] Atrakinze Serpent Sting Training Dummy *1* (O: 4211)
[10:30:47.590] Atrakinze Serpent Sting Training Dummy *1* (O: 4211)
[10:30:49.190] Meepz casts Serpent Sting on Training Dummy
[10:30:49.490] Training Dummy afflicted by Serpent Sting from Meepz
[10:30:50.490] Atrakinze Serpent Sting Training Dummy 1 (O: 1831)
[10:30:52.340] Meepz Serpent Sting Training Dummy *1* (O: 720)
[10:30:53.380] Atrakinze Serpent Sting Training Dummy 1 (O: 1832)
[10:30:55.420] Meepz Serpent Sting Training Dummy 1 (O: 360)
[10:30:56.550] Atrakinze Serpent Sting Training Dummy 1 (O: 1832)
[10:30:56.550] Atrakinze's Serpent Sting fades from Training Dummy

For this one, I had switched between using and not using glyph of serpent sting. It had no change on when my serpent sting damage went down from when Meepz applied his sting.


worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-cu75z0vb8kak3159/xe/?x=(spell+%3D+"Serpent+Sting"and+targeticon+%3D+ICON_CROSS)

I went MM and left Meepz as SV, no change in both's sting damage. Nothing really special to note.


worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-cu75z0vb8kak3159/xe/?x=(spell+%3D+"Serpent+Sting"+and+targeticon+%3D+ICON_SQUARE)+or%0D%0A(spell+%3D+"Cobra+Sh ot"+and+targeticon+%3D+ICON_SQUARE)

[10:51:37.109] Training Dummy afflicted by Serpent Sting from Atrakinze
[10:51:37.689] Meepz Serpent Sting Training Dummy 1 (O: 327)
[10:51:40.199] Atrakinze Serpent Sting Training Dummy *1* (O: 4211)
[10:51:40.719] Meepz Serpent Sting Training Dummy *1* (O: 655)
[10:51:42.099] Meepz casts Serpent Sting on Training Dummy
[10:51:42.589] Training Dummy's Serpent Sting is refreshed by Meepz
[10:51:43.169] Atrakinze Serpent Sting Training Dummy 1 (O: 1831)
[10:51:43.539] Meepz Serpent Sting Training Dummy 1 (O: 359)
[10:51:46.029] Atrakinze Serpent Sting Training Dummy *1* (O: 3829)
[10:51:46.609] Meepz Serpent Sting Training Dummy 1 (O: 360)
[10:51:48.599] Atrakinze Cobra Shot Training Dummy *1* (O: 8463)
[10:51:49.149] Atrakinze Serpent Sting Training Dummy *1* (O: 3829)
[10:51:49.729] Meepz Serpent Sting Training Dummy 1 (O: 359)
[10:51:52.249] Atrakinze Serpent Sting Training Dummy *1* (O: 3828)
[10:51:52.759] Meepz Serpent Sting Training Dummy 1 (O: 359)
[10:51:52.979] Atrakinze Cobra Shot Training Dummy *1* (O: 8456)
[10:51:55.149] Atrakinze Serpent Sting Training Dummy 1 (O: 1831)
[10:51:55.549] Meepz Serpent Sting Training Dummy 1 (O: 359)
[10:51:56.019] Atrakinze Cobra Shot Training Dummy 1 (O: 4110)
[10:51:58.239] Atrakinze Serpent Sting Training Dummy *1* (O: 3829)
[10:51:58.769] Meepz Serpent Sting Training Dummy *1* (O: 719)
[10:51:58.769] Meepz's Serpent Sting fades from Training Dummy
[10:52:01.249] Atrakinze Serpent Sting Training Dummy *1* (O: 4211)

Course I bet you're wondering if refreshing sting with cobra shot will return your damage increase. Well it didn't from what I saw. From the looks of it, you'd have to manually reapply serpent sting to get the damage back from your talents, but in the process you're screwing over the other hunter.