So does Survival now really better then MM ?

[Rove]

Hello there

So i understand that survival does more damage then MM .. well ive tried it out ..

I went to dummies in org and checked ..

and the results are MM did more damage then survival ..
maybe its because that i never played survival??

any tips help ? ill really appreciated it .

[Dorfie]

Careful Aim

/thread

[darkwarrior42]

The best tip in brief is that training dummies are terrible for measuring actual dps.

Raidbots isn't perfect by any measure, but it's showing survival well above mm in practice.

[Pope]

Careful Aim

/thread

Never has a /thread been so right.

@OP: Since the training dummy is at 100% HP all the time, MM has the bonus of careful aim.

If you want to compare the DPS without careful aim, you could go to one of the dummys at the argent tournament, because they stop at 1% HP. Although you would have to spec out of termination for this test.

And still, the results would be a inaccurate.

[hellboyy]

target dummy never gives a proper indication of raid dps.

[Ace Ventura]

As far as I know, MM is still top single target, SV owns aoe-damage.

By the way, I'm survival with Careful Aim

[Arkets]

As far as I know, MM is still top single target, SV owns aoe-damage.

By the way, I'm survival with Careful Aim

you doing it wrong.

[Pope]

As far as I know, MM is still top single target, SV owns aoe-damage.

By the way, I'm survival with Careful Aim

1: SV with careful aim seems pointless. Throwing away 540 AP for the whole fight for a few more DPS during 10% of the fight... I dunno.
Especially considering that with T13 2p, you're not using CS that much.

2: I do think (and WoL seems to agree) that SV does more damage then MM in single target, just because MM is cockblocked nowadays. (Again, due to T13 2p)
Since you're forced to do 2 SS in a row, you're focus-capped easily, especially below 25% boss-HP due to termination.
And capped focus is always wasted DPS.

[Kafaerus]

Being speced into Careful Aim, at least with my gear (includes 4 piece), is a dps loss compared to taking Sic 'Em. (Btw using Femaledwarf.com to compare).

SV is definitely competitive for DPS now for a few reasons.
1. The buff to Lock n Load, you can pretty much alternate between Explosive and Arcane during LnL procs.
2. As mentioned before the 2 piece of T13. You typically only need to cast cobra shot once in order to get enough focus to do Explosive or Black Arrow.
3. Its infinitely easier to keep Serpent Sting up cuz you have to cast Cobra Shot at some point. Marks you mess up on casting that Chimera shot you have to refresh the sting. Also if you are refreshing your sting when you have buffs up (The polearm proc, call of the wild, etc.) and you mess up MM there's a bit of DPS gone. SV the sting is practically at full duration for the majority of the fight.

[Namor of Muradin]

As far as I know, MM is still top single target, SV owns aoe-damage.

By the way, I'm survival with Careful Aim

Evidence that what you know doesn't extend very far. Your statement of "fact" and choice of talents are a) not true and b) not optimal.

[Zeta333]

I went to dummies in org and checked ..

Dummies have never been an accurate representation of DPS. MM has to many problems maintaining Imp SS buff and not being Focus Capped which is a huge reason its not used much, When i switched from MM to surv i noticed a 5-6k dps boost.

[HonneurVilified]

While the OP's logic and some other posts were faulty, I think this is a completely fair question. SimCraft is still placing MM 2k above SV. It's entirely possible that people have just latched onto the idea that SV is best and the good players who could possibly push MM to its limit are simply not willing to take the risk. It's pretty basic psychology.

Having said that, I think SV is much, much easier to play to its limit. MM is a little awkward with the 2pc/4pc (totally trashes the synergy between MM and haste rating).

[jax]

So i understand that survival does more damage then MM

Welcome to 2.5 months ago when DS first dropped?

[Sarevokcz]

1: SV with careful aim seems pointless. Throwing away 540 AP for the whole fight for a few more DPS during 10% of the fight... I dunno.
Especially considering that with T13 2p, you're not using CS that much.

2: I do think (and WoL seems to agree) that SV does more damage then MM in single target, just because MM is cockblocked nowadays. (Again, due to T13 2p)
Since you're forced to do 2 SS in a row, you're focus-capped easily, especially below 25% boss-HP due to termination.
And capped focus is always wasted DPS.

you could go SS>KC>SS and still got the buff, was this fixed/changed already?

[Bianconeri]

Most players will get more out of Surv with 2pc t13 bonus as it's much more forgiving spec to play than MM, it's much easier. Not that MM is really hard but losing ISS takes some time to recover, in Surv you only need to worry about keeping serpent sting up (Which you do without thinking anyway), and ofc black arrow and explosive on CD. I also found that my DPS jumped when I went surv after being MM in FL, that said however if you really want to play MM you can still do it and perform well.

[kalo]

While the OP's logic and some other posts were faulty, I think this is a completely fair question. SimCraft is still placing MM 2k above SV.

if youre are using simcraft for a class with focus, rage or enh shaman you have to expect incredibly flawed results. especially for hunters and rogues its totally far away from being accurate. ppl use simple calculations like femaledwarf/shadowcraft and enh sim for a reason.

Most players will get more out of Surv with 2pc t13 bonus as it's much more forgiving spec to play than MM, it's much easier. Not that MM is really hard but losing ISS takes some time to recover, in Surv you only need to worry about keeping serpent sting up (Which you do without thinking anyway), and ofc black arrow and explosive on CD. I also found that my DPS jumped when I went surv after being MM in FL, that said however if you really want to play MM you can still do it and perform well.

also the fights are pretty mm unfriendly. when doing the patchwork fight this tier aka ultraxion mm suffers alot from pushback compared to sv as they channel alot more.
it was sv > mm in singletraget and aoe when ds hit and is sv >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>mm now.

[Bianconeri]

That's definitely true, I guess if we want to see more hunters go MM in this tier they would have to go back to 80% CA again or something.

[Yaevinn]

back to 80% CA again or something.

I would go with 12sec ISS.

[Namarus]

also the fights are pretty mm unfriendly. when doing the patchwork fight this tier aka ultraxion mm suffers alot from pushback compared to sv as they channel alot more.
it was sv > mm in singletraget and aoe when ds hit and is sv >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>mm now.

There is no push back on this fight.

[Asrialol]

I dont see why people seem to be getting focus capped as MM, considering Aimed Shot costs like 50 focus. And, you dont have to Steady Shot in pairs every time you are going to use Steady Shot. Just shoot two in pairs when you need ISS refreshed. Getting Steady to 1.25s cast time means you can easily refresh ISS with 2sec left on the timer.

Though of course, increasing the duration of the ISS buff would severely reduce the clunkyness of MM.