Blizzard Legally Opposes Valve Trademark Over DOTA Name

[Wildmoon]

The the guru of Dota is at Valve, it should solely belong to them, how is that backwards




You obviously have no idea what you are talking about friend, as a long time Beta tester of the original Dota I cant tell you for a fact that 99% of the skills in the game were coded from scratch by Icefrog himself. And where in the hell did you get the information the "Dota mechanic" was created by Blizzard, that is just false.

Wut? Dota's mechanic is WC3's. How the hell it is other than that? and Bladefury,whole set of pandaren skill and many more are the skills that are already in WC3. Icefrog just took it and put it in Dota. I don't know how it was to put it in but the fact is it is WC3's. I wanna ask you one thing. Have you ever played WC3? People who have played it know that many skills in Dota are WC3's.

[hailey]

Except Valve is trying to claim the right over something that is not their or Icerog's.

It's for the courts to decide who's it is. Not yours. All Valve is doing is going through the proper channels when creating a new game. Why would they do anything different? Did you lose something when they trademarked Team Fortress? Was that a black day for the history of the internet and IP rights?

Eul: original creator of Dota allstars, works at Valve
Icefrog: primarily developer of Dota for the majority of its life, works at Valve
Dota2: Game developed from the ground up by Valve before anyone else chose to make a standalone Dota game

Every company trademarks the names of their commercial software. Not every company tries to water down a trademark because it is tangentially related to another of their products so they can continue to profit off the name in the future

[Freezymcgee]

DotA uses Warcraft 3 skins and heroes?

DotA references Ancients, a being in Warcraft 3?

DotA uses even ONE spell from Warcraft?

Icefrog agreed to Blizzard's EULA when he made DotA Allstars?

Guess who technically owns all the work he put into DotA? Not Icefrog.

Your saying Blizzard owns the term "Ancients", absolutely ludicrous.
The legal question has nothing to do with models/spells as they are being created from scratch for Dota 2(Even though Icefrog created the entirety of Dota's skills)
Then you admit that Blizzard is just attempting to steal Icefrogs work and use that as a point in your favour

such Fanboyism its almost not even worth arguing with you



And to the people who say Icefrog took WC3 skills and just planted them in Dota are just flat out wrong and ignorant.
Fact - Blizzard does not own "fireball" or "bladestorm" or "insert X skill here"
Fact - All the dota skills were hardcoded by Icefrog himself, if they bear similarity to anything in WC3 its because Dota has over 100 hereos and there are only so many skills and abilities in the fantasy universe

[mööh]

I thought dota was just the playstyle of the game like "rpg,rts". I just wish that they won't have a court involved in this and just either valve let it go and blizz let it go.

[Wildmoon]

Your saying Blizzard owns the term "Ancients", absolutely ludicrous.
The legal question has nothing to do with models/spells as they are being created from scratch for Dota 2(Even though Icefrog created the entirety of Dota's skills)
Then you admit that Blizzard is just attempting to steal Icefrogs work and use that as a point in your favour

such Fanboyism its almost not even worth arguing with you



And to the people who say Icefrog took WC3 skills and just planted them in Dota are just flat out wrong and ignorant.
Fact - Blizzard does not own "fireball" or "bladestorm" or "insert X skill here"
Fact - All the dota skills were hardcoded by Icefrog himself, if they bear similarity to anything in WC3 its because Dota has over 100 hereos and there are only so many skills and abilities in the fantasy universe

Do you really think such a unique skill like primal spirit that is in Dota just happens to be there whike it also exists in WC3? There's noone trying to say that Icefrog stole Blizzard's idea. Not even Blizzard themself said that. It's only you who said that Blizzard is trying to steal Icefrog's work.

[Kasperio]

Your saying Blizzard owns the term "Ancients", absolutely ludicrous.
The legal question has nothing to do with models/spells as they are being created from scratch for Dota 2(Even though Icefrog created the entirety of Dota's skills)
Then you admit that Blizzard is just attempting to steal Icefrogs work and use that as a point in your favour

such Fanboyism its almost not even worth arguing with you



And to the people who say Icefrog took WC3 skills and just planted them in Dota are just flat out wrong and ignorant.
Fact - Blizzard does not own "fireball" or "bladestorm" or "insert X skill here"
Fact - All the dota skills were hardcoded by Icefrog himself, if they bear similarity to anything in WC3 its because Dota has over 100 hereos and there are only so many skills and abilities in the fantasy universe

Since you like facts, and ignoring them when they're presented to you, I'll try again:

Fact: Icefrog does not own the engine upon which DOTA was built.
Fact: Icefrog does not own the artwork or mechanics used in DOTA.
Fact: Icefrog has legally accepted he does not own these and that he used a Blizzard engine to 'hardcode' them on.

Fact: Valve cannot win this one, really.

And as regards to your 'fanboyism' calling. Don't sink to that level, dude. It's desperation and frustration and it's okay to feel that way, but you're better than that. You're a gamer and you're a good one, too, I bet, so don't drop to silly name calling and box matching. Please.

[ownager]

such Fanboyism its almost not even worth arguing with you

Well, you don't seem to be better either. The creater of a work is not neccessarily the holder of the rights. Ask your favourite music band that does not publish their songs by theirself who has the rights on their songs they created. There are numerous examples where song writer left bands and couldn't make anything out of their previous work. despite the fact they created it. The difference here is that blizzard never had any rights on the trademark and valve was just faster.

I myself think the case is not as easy as : developer works for valve, valve has rights.

[Aelayah]

I don't think Blizzard owns the names "Dota" or "Defense of the Ancients", therefor they have no say in it.

[mavfin]

Blizzard just wants to prevent Valve from copyrighting it. They're not trying to take it for themselves.

They're doing the correct thing. And Blizzard has Vivendi's money and lawyers. Good luck with that, Valve.

[crazyterran]

Your saying Blizzard owns the term "Ancients", absolutely ludicrous.
The legal question has nothing to do with models/spells as they are being created from scratch for Dota 2(Even though Icefrog created the entirety of Dota's skills)
Then you admit that Blizzard is just attempting to steal Icefrogs work and use that as a point in your favour

such Fanboyism its almost not even worth arguing with you



And to the people who say Icefrog took WC3 skills and just planted them in Dota are just flat out wrong and ignorant.
Fact - Blizzard does not own "fireball" or "bladestorm" or "insert X skill here"
Fact - All the dota skills were hardcoded by Icefrog himself, if they bear similarity to anything in WC3 its because Dota has over 100 hereos and there are only so many skills and abilities in the fantasy universe

Since you are an idiot, I'm going to assume you don't understand the part that the only ones trying to copyright the term "DOTA" here is Valve, and Blizzard is legally in the right with their opposition?

Then again, you are so much of a Icefrog fanboy, I don't know why I'm arguing with you.

Don't flame. -3clipse

[Kasperio]

I thought dota was just the playstyle of the game like "rpg,rts". I just wish that they won't have a court involved in this and just either valve let it go and blizz let it go.

Amen to that. It's a huge waste of money, and if only Valve would just leave something alone instead of trying to piss off Blizzard. Note, by the way, I love Valve and alot of their work, but some of their departments are like EA's advertisement department. Just downright sad. Especially in this case.

[Herecius]

Your saying Blizzard owns the term "Ancients", absolutely ludicrous.
The legal question has nothing to do with models/spells as they are being created from scratch for Dota 2(Even though Icefrog created the entirety of Dota's skills)
Then you admit that Blizzard is just attempting to steal Icefrogs work and use that as a point in your favour

such Fanboyism its almost not even worth arguing with you



And to the people who say Icefrog took WC3 skills and just planted them in Dota are just flat out wrong and ignorant.
Fact - Blizzard does not own "fireball" or "bladestorm" or "insert X skill here"
Fact - All the dota skills were hardcoded by Icefrog himself, if they bear similarity to anything in WC3 its because Dota has over 100 hereos and there are only so many skills and abilities in the fantasy universe

Again, you're getting too worked up over it and not seeing the facts. Blizzard isn't trying to claim ownership. If they were, they would have trademarked DotA themselves already, and this would be a very different kind of lawsuit, one where Valve would have even less of a chance of winning.

[Kasperio]

Since you are an idiot, I'm going to assume you don't understand the part that the only ones trying to copyright the term "DOTA" here is Valve, and Blizzard is legally in the right with their opposition?

Then again, you are so much of a Icefrog fanboy, I don't know why I'm arguing with you.

Please don't throw 'fanboy' and 'idiot' around mate. As much as I agree with your points, it's impolite to throw names at eachother and it does nothing constructive for the arguement =)

[Eroginous]

The way I see it, Valve hired the guy who basically made DoTA (technically, Eul did, but IceFrog is the one who took DoTA to what it is). Meanwhile, Blizzard didn't have anything to do with DoTA at all, aside from it being a custom map made in TFT. If anyone's gonna copyright it, may as well be Valve.

You're confusing copyright infringement with trademark violation, two totally separate legal entities. In this instance, Blizzard created and owns the rights to all things associated with Warcraft 3, including the name Dota, the likenesses of the characters used, the IP behind the scenario, and anything a third party created using these things.

Copyright infringement would be Valve taking Dota and copying everything about it, including specific game functions, character designs, game designs, and development assets, under their own license. The important thing to note is that even if they changed the names of all things pertaining to their copy, it's still in copyright violation because it's literally using complex things created by someone else.

Trademark violation would be valve taking the Dota concept, making their own game with all their own IP, development assets, and mechanics, then calling it DOTA.

Basically, Valve has filed a trademark to be able to legally use the name Dota or Defense of the Ancients to label one of their games, and Blizzard is disputing that. They are not disputing valve's ability to create a game within the 'Dota genre' using their own IP, development assets, and game mechanics.

Edit: The thing to keep in mind here, is that a Trademark is the label or icon that you immediately associate with something being marketed, sold, or published. If I say Iphone, you immediately think of an Iphone, Apple, Steve Jobs, and the look/feel/interface of the Iphone itself. If I came out with a phone that had a similar, but different look/feel/interface as the Iphone, and called it a Iphone, I would be in direct violation of the Trademark agreement, because I am labeling something I made using a previously trademarked label, which could then confuse and mislead consumers into making faulty decisions between the two products.

While Blizzard does not own the 'theme' of Dota, they do own everything that went into making the original (including the label, dota) as long as the game is being used with Blizzards assets. They also have the right to prevent anyone from coming out with a product that uses the name 'Dota' no matter how different that product is, to avoid confusion and misleading customers into making faulty decisions between the two products.

[Freezymcgee]

Since you are an idiot, I'm going to assume you don't understand the part that the only ones trying to copyright the term "DOTA" here is Valve, and Blizzard is legally in the right with their opposition?

Then again, you are so much of a Icefrog fanboy, I don't know why I'm arguing with you.

Since you are an immature fanboy, like me explain this to you slowly.

Guinsoo/Eul create Dota
Icefrog turns Dota into a game played by millions of people and eSports across the world
Valve hires Icefrog
Valve attempts to copyright Dota
Blizzard cries fowl when they realize Dota is no longer a cashcow they can harvest off the labor of others
Blizzard takes Valve to court

At what point in this series of events does Blizzard have any right to the intellectual property that is Dota
None.

Now take a few minutes to soak that in. I know you'll need it.

~ Infracted, please refrain from calling people fanboys.

[crazyterran]

Please don't throw 'fanboy' and 'idiot' around mate. As much as I agree with your points, it's impolite to throw names at eachother and it does nothing constructive for the arguement =)

I was just responding to the fanboy comment he threw at me. :P

Since you are blind, stupid and retarded, like me explain this to you slowly.

Guinsoo/Eul create Dota
Icefrog turns Dota into a game played by millions of people and eSports across the world
Valve hires Icefrog
Valve attempts to copyright Dota
Blizzard cries fowl when they realize Dota is no longer a cashcow they can harvest off the labor of others
Blizzard takes Valve to court

At what point in this series of events does Blizzard have any right to the intellectual property that is Dota
None.

Now take a few minutes to soak that in. I know you'll need it.

Eul, Guinsoo, and Icefrog signed the EULA?

It entitles Blizzard to do whatever the heck they want with any form of thing created within their game/world editor. Technically, DOTA, the original mod, belongs to them.

It doesn't matter who did the work. Blizzard owns it.

But I'm going to guess you are stupid and don't know how the 'laws' work?

[flarecde]

I think at this point it's a little late to be trademarking it. I think if anyone wants to use it, they should be free to. It's been in public domain far too long already.

[Kasperio]

Since you are an immature fanboy, like me explain this to you slowly.

Guinsoo/Eul create Dota
Icefrog turns Dota into a game played by millions of people and eSports across the world
Valve hires Icefrog
Valve attempts to copyright Dota
Blizzard cries fowl when they realize Dota is no longer a cashcow they can harvest off the labor of others
Blizzard takes Valve to court

At what point in this series of events does Blizzard have any right to the intellectual property that is Dota
None.

Now take a few minutes to soak that in. I know you'll need it.

Okay, that's enough Freezymcgee. PLEASE read the posts i've been writing so we can either talk about this constructively and you might understand the secondary aspect of this, or atleast stop using phrases and attacks against Crazyterran. It's uncalled for and it puts you in a terrible light, mate...

And Crazyterran, I am aware of why you did it, but do not sink to that level. You're better than that man.

- Can we please just hold the namecalling and have a civil debate about this instead? PLEASE!

[Wildmoon]

Since you are an immature fanboy, like me explain this to you slowly.

Guinsoo/Eul create Dota
Icefrog turns Dota into a game played by millions of people and eSports across the world
Valve hires Icefrog
Valve attempts to copyright Dota
Blizzard cries fowl when they realize Dota is no longer a cashcow they can harvest off the labor of others
Blizzard takes Valve to court

At what point in this series of events does Blizzard have any right to the intellectual property that is Dota
None.

Now take a few minutes to soak that in. I know you'll need it.

Let's ignore the fact that Dota is made on WC3 and Icefrog used many things that is WC3's to make his game.

[Gheld]

Okay, so I think I've figured out this twisted little mess:

Blizzard claims ownership to the trademark DoTA because of the fact that it was created by users using their World Editor software and that it would be damaging for Valve to use because of its association with the Warcraft community. However Valve hired somebody from the team that made DoTA in order to make DoTA 2 (A whole stand-alone spin-off game based on a Warcraft 3 map)

No, I don't think Blizzard legitimately owns DoTA but;
To make a spinoff game would require savagely pillaging numerous pieces of intellectual property that blizzard does own.
Though I doubt the focus of said game would be such that it poses any real threat to Warcraft or World of Warcraft.