mastery overkill?

[twistedsista]

is there such a thing?
im a resto shammy http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...masutra/simple in a 10 man raiding guild currently 7/8 DS. ive had my mastery as high as 55% with crit at 20% & was wondering if that was a bit too much? ive recently adjusted it to 23% crit & 45% mastery & was interested to know if that would be a better balance than high mastery?

sorry if this thread or something simillar has been posted before & i have looked at a variety of posts on different forums, but not really read on what is a good crit/mastery ratio.

[Alltat]

55% mastery is still pretty low. Unless you're creeping up on 70%, don't worry about it. It does depend a bit on what raid buffs you have available, as raid buffs will increase your crit chance (+5% intellect, +5% crit) while it will have no effect on your mastery. If you don't have the 5% crit buff in your raid, the relative values will shift a bit.

[delaxes]

45% mastery is definitly a bit low. with your current gear, i would say you should have at a min 55% mastery, probably closer to 60%, whilst keeping your haste around 916. Crit I always found as your worst stat as you cant predict a crit, whilst you know mastery is going to do more healing when the target is on low hp no matter what especially in ds, when people are constantly on lower hp but it all depends on your play style. I think 2900 spirit + heart of unliving is a bit overkill aswell especially in a tellucent current spec and going for fairly high crit (which is also a better mana regen stat than haste or mastery) So you could probably reforge some of that down. Since heart of unliving would have close to 100% uptime thats 880 more spirit, so I recon you should reforge down to about 2000 spirit, if not more. On my shaman, similar item level, Im sitting at around 60% mastery, 2005 haste rating (which you should only go for if your close to it) and 18% crit but only have 1500 spirit and no heart of the unliving. Anyway, my point is, I very rarely go oom and if you manage your mana a bit with tellucent currents during burn phases for instance you can trade some mana regeneration for some more pure output

[hempaa]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...xixaman/simple

i have 17.57 and if it was 20.0 i wouldnt complain

[Misirlou]

i have 21.somth. used to have 22.ish but switched VP belt for one HC with no mastery on it (no spine belt normal/hc drop for me ~_~). I just cant get enough.

(22 points btw, not 22%. equals 65ish %)

[Weerra]

It's not overkill. Get more of it.
Don't raise haste above the cap. If you can't put more into mastery, put into crit.

[Gray_Matter]

It's not overkill. Get more of it.
Don't raise haste above the cap. If you can't put more into mastery, put into crit.

Now talk about mixed messages. One minute someone says go haste and mastery, next minute someone says go mastery at all costs then it's haste to 916 and then mastery and crit.

Doesn't the 4pc bonus make haste more valuable? For example getting yourself to 1500-1600 odd haste when stacked with the 4pc and totem would put you over the 2005 haste break point. So for the 2/3 times that you use it in the fight (when you need the burst), you get the benefit of the extra tick for 20 seconds. A question on this. If I cast healing rain does it take the haste at the time of casting or scale with my haste?

Depending on your group make up, I would say that haste might become more important. Not more than mastery but more than crit. For example, I run with pugs most of the time and there is less coordination. With 916 haste I am left dropping healing rain and throwing the odd riptide boosted GHW. Anything else is almost always wasted. I can't get a chain heal cast off half the time without someone else topping up the person in the meantime.

[hempaa]

i use haste above the cap, and its much better for my composition, it is just a matter of sinergy between you and your partner(s) heals.

[Tatami]

I was used to go all mastery like a month ago. Now i decide go for 2600 spirit- than haste to cap. Since im not a goblin it's 2800 rating. Im rading 10 man like you and i see haste a lot more usefull than mastery in 10 man, Since your riptide is a huge part in healing in 10 man. Even for AOE healing tick on Healing rain is really powefull.

Keep in mind that I only do 10 man. And 2k haste for a goblin with your gear not hard to get. I suggest you to try it.

[Seriss]

For Spine progress I'm trying out an alternative way of reforging. Keep in mind that I'm talking about 25-man. And I'm experiementing as I couldn't find much information about Spine25 whereas Spine10 is being discussed quite heavily in several threads in this forum.

I used to be haste as close to 916 as gear allows (it tends to be above by an ever growing amount), no crit, lots of mastery (more than 20 points - 60% addheal).

On every piece of gear that I had, I'd reforge haste into mastery if possible. And if the item already had mastery on it, it would stay that way.
Now... since I've been reading up on tips and tricks for Spine, I decided that I'd probably want some crit here... but I didn't want to do away with all that yummy mastery (tendon 3, I hear you!). So... All the reforges stayed the same... and the UNreforged items (the ones with mastery) got their mastery reforged into crit.

That left me with 50% mastery addheal and a nice chunk of crit that will hopefully help on the first two tendons when raid health still stays within crit-favouring ranges most of the time - though I must say that I've healed the one or the other searing plasma debuff from fiery-gripped people with nicely mastery-boosted GHWs even on the first tendon (we got that one down already which isn't too bad of a progress made for just one raid night of Spine yet).

When Spine is on farm - I'm fairly certain it'll go down within 2 or 3 weeks from now - I'll probably reforge back to where I'm usually sitting at, since I do like having ridiculous amounts of mastery. On the other hand, the synergy between crit and mastery isn't lost on me, though crit IS the one unreliable stat that you need to get lucky with (ask those fire mages ). Who knows...

The only thing I know for sure is that I'm not going to go the haste route. That one just isn't my thing. I tried... I felt weak.

[Alltat]

Now talk about mixed messages. One minute someone says go haste and mastery, next minute someone says go mastery at all costs then it's haste to 916 and then mastery and crit.

When people suggest "all out mastery", it's usually assumed that you first reach 916 haste. Beyond that, haste tends to be overvalued as it largely helps with "healer sniping", meaning you look better on healing meters on farm content, while not actually having higher HPS. This is also why haste is the ultimate stat for topping meters in LFR. It falls short of mastery on any content that's actually challenging, though. Crit always offers a bigger HPS (and HPM) boost than haste, but people perceive it to be unreliable, as you mainly notice your crit on spells like GHW (where it's all-or-nothing), while the benefits to spells like Healing Rain and Riptide are much less obvious.

Doesn't the 4pc bonus make haste more valuable? For example getting yourself to 1500-1600 odd haste when stacked with the 4pc and totem would put you over the 2005 haste break point.

Nope. The thing is that with 4T13 popped, you'll get far above the haste required for that extra tick even with minimal haste rating. Going for 1267 haste (extra tick on HR during 30% haste) becomes appealing when you have 4T13, but other than there aren't any extra breakpoints that you can realistically hit that you wouldn't hit anyway with just <1k haste.

For example, I run with pugs most of the time and there is less coordination. With 916 haste I am left dropping healing rain and throwing the odd riptide boosted GHW. Anything else is almost always wasted. I can't get a chain heal cast off half the time without someone else topping up the person in the meantime.

In that case, it doesn't matter what your stats are. You shouldn't be reforging for the times when no one is going to die anyway, because at those times you could reforge all items to expertise and gem strength and it wouldn't matter. Always reforge for the bad times, because sooner or later things are going to turn ugly, and when they do, you'll feel really silly if everyone dies because you reforged to top meters rather than actually heal.

[karrad]

Im running with 21.86 (65%) mastery, and still dont see it as overkill.

For heroic spine however i really like crit more than mastery. and run with 25% unbuffed and 4100spirit with my trinket stacked and mana can still be a issue on plate3.

As for what you should do it is pretty hard for us to judge that. Shamans, especially with how our mastery works, all have different personal weights for stats based on their strengths and weaknesses along with their raid(and more so their other healers) strengths and weakness. Something so simple as a rogue picking up a piece of armor with 50 more stam technically devalues our mastery by a tiny bit.

[Gray_Matter]

When people suggest "all out mastery", it's usually assumed that you first reach 916 haste. Beyond that, haste tends to be overvalued as it largely helps with "healer sniping", meaning you look better on healing meters on farm content, while not actually having higher HPS. This is also why haste is the ultimate stat for topping meters in LFR. It falls short of mastery on any content that's actually challenging, though. Crit always offers a bigger HPS (and HPM) boost than haste, but people perceive it to be unreliable, as you mainly notice your crit on spells like GHW (where it's all-or-nothing), while the benefits to spells like Healing Rain and Riptide are much less obvious.

I am not too interested in LFR. I normally have to heal out of necessity as it's my off spec although it's becoming tougher and tougher to get a pug as Enhance now days. Just too many melee classes and not enough spots. It's not like we can soak on Ultraxion either which hurts more. Pugs looking for shammy healers are a dime a dozen. I am not really worried about the meters at all. There is an odd occasion where the pug leader will ask a healer to pick it up after looking at the meters but they are generally not too stressed.

Nope. The thing is that with 4T13 popped, you'll get far above the haste required for that extra tick even with minimal haste rating. Going for 1267 haste (extra tick on HR during 30% haste) becomes appealing when you have 4T13, but other than there aren't any extra breakpoints that you can realistically hit that you wouldn't hit anyway with just <1k haste.

1267 sounds like a nice sweet spot then

The thing is that I really like the haste play style. I seem to keep having to cancel my LB cast to put in a heal because someone needs it. Then again, I hardly ever have any problems with mana and normally end the fight with about 3/4 mana. I used to have 2600 spirit with Tsunami and have reforged to 2100 now to put a bit more into haste. Haven't really tried it with a normal mode with the build yet as my pug from last week was as Enhance. I did try a haste build in the past and while I really like the play style it really performed badly. I made the big mistake then of taking from mastery to boost haste. This time I took from Crit (now about 350) and spirit.

In that case, it doesn't matter what your stats are. You shouldn't be reforging for the times when no one is going to die anyway, because at those times you could reforge all items to expertise and gem strength and it wouldn't matter. Always reforge for the bad times, because sooner or later things are going to turn ugly, and when they do, you'll feel really silly if everyone dies because you reforged to top meters rather than actually heal.

The last pug I healed was a bit wipe fest on DW. I joined a 7/8 guild for the fight as DPS and immediately saw that there was no way they could 2 heal it so I switched spec. I was topping the meters as healer but that wasn't really the point. A couple of times we wiped in P2 because we could not keep both tanks up with the adds. I recon with a bit more haste (I was 916 at the time) that I could have. I used Natures Swiftness on one (I think another healer blew a CD on the same one) and just couldn't cast fast enough to heal the other one.

It may be that haste suits the more chaotic play style of pugs with little or no organisation. HC's have 2 healers so I am unlikely to have the same problem there.

---------- Post added 2012-02-13 at 06:50 PM ----------

4100spirit

How on earth do you get that. Even with the trinket stacked.

[karrad]

actually its 4203 spirit now. Reforge all haste/crit to mastery (saving enough for the 4pc HR tick) when possible without touching any spirit.
3323 base+880 from trinket

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...arrad/advanced

[hempaa]

should not be hard to get 4100 if you WANT to.

[Gray_Matter]

actually its 4203 spirit now. Reforge all haste/crit to mastery (saving enough for the 4pc HR tick) when possible without touching any spirit.
3323 base+880 from trinket

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...arrad/advanced

Very nice. 7 HC items. I think I may just get there with my MS in about 4 months

It's a real sin that you haven't gotten a second ring > 378. Talk about bad luck.

[karrad]

passed them all to derps because i cared more about killing bosses than my ilvl :P LFR just hates me tho.

[Gray_Matter]

passed them all to derps because i cared more about killing bosses than my ilvl :P LFR just hates me tho.

I was thinking more about LFR and FL HC's. What about the FL rep ring?

[karrad]

i took a break after heroic alysrazor.

[mittacc]

with foul gift procced i'm up around 80-81%ish mastery and i LOVE it! ever seen one of those GHW+ue+crit combos? i think i've been up to 200-ish crits without any special buffs apart from normal raidbuffs.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Izuzu/advanced