Simulationcraft & Haste vs. Mastery

[Zorn]

So I know this is a topic that's been discussed to death, but I am confused about something. I have mostly 397 gear, and my T13 4pc bonus. I don't have DTR yet, although I'm close to finished.

I ran Simulationcraft and it tells me that Mastery is better than Haste for me. I took the stat weights calculated by SC and plugged them into Ask Mr Robot, and now Mr Robot is telling me to change all my reforging completely to mastery. I am just wondering though, at what point when I make that drastic change am I going to overdo it, and harm myself? I'm guessing if I do what it tells me and reforge completely to mastery, then run the simulation again, it will tell me haste is better.

Is this a stupid question? Just trying to figure out what my best course of action is without doing detriment to my DPS.

[ccsabathia]

run the simulation again

Answered your own question.

[Endus]

Stats change how they scale, there are breakpoints and other interactions that cause the value of a stat to change as you stack more or less of it. They are not straight lines, and as such you cannot use a static stat weight. Ask Mr Robot is also a "stupid" calculator; I don't say that to be demeaning, but it isn't very intelligent, and so if you tell it stat values at a certain point, it assumes those values hold true forever and extrapolates based on that. If you pass breakpoints or one stat starts scaling better, those can change halfway there. There's no shortcut, it's just a matter of reforging and seeing what the sim results are.

With T13 4-piece and no DTR, there's no real way to give any firm answer. Haste tended to be slightly better most (but not all) of the time without T13 or DTR, and each pushes Mastery a little bit more, so that with one of the two, they're pretty even, and with both, Mastery tends to (but again, not always) win out.

If you're strapped for cash, you can use Chardev or Rawr to import your character and reforge differently, and then import the result to the sim. That's usually faster. I'd try a full reforge and see if it's still saying Mastery is ahead, if so you're probably just fine sticking with that.

[construkt]

Mastery got better when you got the 4p and your haste became
Dependent upon your mastery. Also if you use
Glyph of lvb it will favor mastery as your mastery procs from lb are not affected by the glyph of lb whilst lvb procs are.

[gashpanda]

In 390+ ilvl gear with 4 set bonus you will have loads of haste by default on the gear as it's well itemised and mastery will be better to reforge to. I've simmed myself as I've gone up in gear and it consistently comes back with mastery by a small amount so I would say although the advice to sim it is good advice in general I think there's enough haste on current gear with 4 set bonus mastery will always come up on top right up to BiS once you have sufficiently good gear. I could be wrong but I don't think so. I mean I'm 397 ilvl too and reforged everything out of haste in to mastery and I still have 1700 odd haste so don't worry about going 'too far'.
Also madness has extra haste so mastery will be favoured in that fight.

[JonBeMerkin]

So am i just supposed to guess what spec you are?

[Endus]

So am i just supposed to guess what spec you are?

I don't have DTR yet, although I'm close to finished.

It's pretty darn obvious if you bother to read his post.

[gashpanda]

Yeah he's clearly enhancement

[Willing]

So am i just supposed to guess what spec you are?

A: he is talking about DPS so that rules out resto.
B: he's talking about haste, if he was enh he wouldn't even be discussing haste in the first place.
C: ^


anyways. i personally just balance my mastery and haste fairly evenly. usually favoring mastery by a small margin.

[edlike]

I'm finding that there is such an absurd amount of haste on the gear by default that I am over 2800 haste while reforging to mastery

[Ilzan]

One thing that I've found helps if you're using Simulationcraft, and you can spare 10-20 minutes, is to go to the "Reforge Plots" tab under options and check the boxes for haste and mastery. After you simulate you'll get a nice little graph near the top of the report on the right side that will show you how your dps will change for each 20 rating (default, can be changed) you reforge out to 200 total (default, can also be changed) rating reforged. Then just pick the highest point on the graph and figure out how to get as close as possible to that change and you're golden.

[Devious009]

Its pretty simple what you need to do, when you run your toon through Simulationcraft theres an option for ploting reforging for the stats of your choosing, what this graph tells you is how much a relative stat will change in value if you increase it by 100 / 200 / 300 & 400 (Im not sure it goes up to 400 I always keep it on the default 200). AskMrRobot will ofcourse tell you to reforge completely to Mastery if you put its value higher than Haste because AskMrRobot doesnt take into account how much Mastery you are increasing and thus doesnt recognize at which point Mastery and Haste start to get closer in value.

Remember the goal is not to find which stat is superior and stack it exclusively but you want to find the right balance, if you keep simming your toon and Haste and Mastery's value are really really close then you have achieved your goal.

[Zorn]

So yesterday I finally finished my Dragonwrath, and with my gear mostly reforged for Haste, I ran SC and Mastery was simming a bit higher. I then reforged all for Mastery in Chardev, and ran the sim again, and now Haste's scale factor is 2.0480, and Mastery's is 2.4366.

Does this essentially mean I am clear to go ahead and change all my reforges to Mastery in the 'real world'?

[Endus]

Most likely. Both T13 2/4-piece and Dragonwrath push Mastery up slightly in scaling, with both set bonuses AND Dragonwrath, Mastery will probably be the way to go.

If you want to be sure, keep simming.

[Zorn]

Most likely. Both T13 2/4-piece and Dragonwrath push Mastery up slightly in scaling, with both set bonuses AND Dragonwrath, Mastery will probably be the way to go.

If you want to be sure, keep simming.

Cool thank you. I'll go do the reforges on my live char.

[slikvik]

I believe also that MR. Robot and wowreforge have a predetermined stat weight for haste and mastery. In wowreforge you can change the stat weights to that of what simcraft said.

[Zorn]

I believe also that MR. Robot and wowreforge have a predetermined stat weight for haste and mastery. In wowreforge you can change the stat weights to that of what simcraft said.

I prefer Mr. Robot, so I went in and changed the stat weights to what was indicated by SC as you said.