Help With Combustion...

[Incog]

What is the proper way to combust?
I understand LB+Pyro Dot+ High Ignite (Big Crit) Are the components of a good combustion but I hear of many stating they can have over 20k dps combustions. How is this possible? On a target dummy with all dots, and right after a big crit Ill combust for Maybee 10k...and thats being lucky.
Even fully raid buffed, all that good stuff, a combust doesn't come near 15k let alone 20k+. Is there something I'm missing? Like...really...
Pulled 32k on 10m H Ultraxion this week, with no 3% Dmg buff or 8% Magic damage debuff.

I've heard if you combust right after a double crit (One right after the other) it will force a very high ignite, but those probabilities suck and was still unable to reach a high combust even with this method.
Also heard Rolling Ignites as much as possible achieves a very high ignite..which again is very difficult to pull off and still doesn't stack to the magnitude to reach that plateau.

Armory:
us.battle.net /wow/en/character/tichondrius/Incognite/simple

If its not possible to have combust tick for 25k a second, let me know I'm unable to reach this goal.
Thank you all

[Exiled Legion]

Get Combustion Helper from curse. It shows you all the 3 DoTs that make up Combustion. The 2 main ones you care about are Living Bomb and Ignite. I set a threshold of 20k for ignite and don't combust unless I have at least that and LB up. Having Pyro DoT is only added bonus. A big ignite is all about luck. You could go all the way through hero and not get an ignite higher than 18k or you could get one for 40k. Don't rely on 2 crits in a row. Get Combustion Helper that shows you exactly/roughly what your ignites are ticking for.

[Bucrudra]

I use "myBigIgnite" instead of comb-helper. Set a 20k thres and pray.
RNG 4 the win

[SpecialVillain]

Getting a good combustion can be a headache sometimes, recently I've been trying to get better at lining up my combustions as I've been a little too low throughout most of our HM progression. One thing I've noticed is that ignite munching can really screw you over. More than a few times I've had an ignite built up to 18k or higher on the dummy, then get a double crit with FB and Pyroblast! only to watch it drop back down to 13k because the last ignite just ate the previous one. I really don't know how to get around ignite munching or maybe I just don't fully understand how the mechanic works. Either way it has been a bit of a nuisance.

[Incog]

I've tried it all, I practically live on the dummy atm.
Always use combustion helper but it is of no help for this issue,
Mybigignite seems to be unsuccessful.
Honestly, I have No Idea how someone would get over a 20k dps combustion without a gimmick to the boss. I have to be missing something.

[Azandur]

Basically, the reagent for a strong Combustion is mainly a high Ignite. This is achieved by consecutively critting, in other words: being really lucky.

Let's say I'm trying to stack up a big Ignite for my Combustion and I'm in the mid cast of a Fireball with a Hot Streak proc, I usually delay my instant Pyroblast with let's say 0.2 seconds rather than hurling it away at the same time as the Fireball (This is to avoid Ignite munching). But then again, you need a lot of luck for this and it's not always gonna end up the way you like it. Story of a Cataclysm fire mage ;>

I've seen a few Combustions crit for over 55k, but as I said, it's a rare case and you shouldn't underestimate the 8% spell damage and 3% raid damage.

[AndreasDS]

Read this, and try it out in raid:

http://www.paragon.fi/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=3154

After several hours of testing at a dummy and in Firelands, I have come up with a way to nearly double the strenth of ignite. I will refer to this as Ignite Stacking. Similar to Ignite Munching, but with the opposite effect.

What is ignite stacking?

Ignite stacks when a target is crit twice (or more via Dragonwrath) before ignite ticks (2 seconds) the ignite's strenth will stack and be nearly twice as strong. Two hits at the same time do not (from my observation) cause ignite to stack.

The idea here is hold onto a Hot Streak Proc until a Fireball Crits, then cast the Pyroblast. Please note that you MUST be close to the boss for this to work. If it is a boss like Ragnaros the delay time is greater than 2 seconds and only by luck can this be obtained.

What if I don't believe this "Guromin" guy?

Try it for yourself! Go to a target dummy and cast fireball until it crits a few times and take note of the size of the Ignite from that crit. Do the same with Pyroblast. Afterwards attempt to obtain a stacking ignite by casting a normal rotation, holding Hot Streak until a fireball crits and unleashing it. If it crits, and the timing was good the ignite will be noticeably larger than anything obtainable otherwise. For me, I got about a 12k ignite from a normal Fireball crit and about a 14k ignite from a Pyroblast crit. With ignite stacking I was able to get anywhere from a 17-27k ignite.

Why does the value vary so much?

My best guess is that the closer the two crits are together the more powerful the ignite is (but they can't hit at exactly the same time). In addition, Intellect Procs, Mastery Rating, and other such procs can effect the value of the Impact. Most notably is the timing on "when" the two hit relative to eachother. The more time in between the hits, the more of the Ignite is "munched".

I can't get them to hit close enough together because of GCD lockout. Help!

Instead of chaining Fireballs, cast one and wait to see if it crits. The second you know it crit, cast Pyrobast. The second you see it hit, but not crit continue with another Fireball. If you keep chaining Fireballs. Don't ever waste a Hot Streak Proc! If the duration is under 3 seconds use it, don't lose it.

What is the best way to take advantage of this?

On any given fight I first determine when exactly is the best time to use Combustion. On Ultraxion, for example, Combustion should be used off the bat. Hopefully your guild stacks fairly close to the boss. Once a Hot Streak proc occurs wait until there is a pre-existing ignite on the target with 3-4 seconds on the duration. Cast one more Fireball, then immediately after launch the instant cast Pyroblast. If both the Fireball and Pyroblast crit the Ignite will be about 29k or higher. If Dragonwrath also procs a fireball or Pyroblast that crits, the ignite will be roughly 40k. On my very best attempt on Ultraxion, I was able to get a 60k ignite and keep it up by criting the boss for an entire minute. This has only happened once, and you can certainly believe my damage was insane. Quite sad that this attempt was on Heroic and did not lead to a kill.

Now, for fights where the window to use Combustion is incredibly small, there is a different method that is more effective. On Yor'Sahj 25m Heroic there is a very small 5-10 Second window to spread combustion to the second set of adds (on Red, Yellow, Black). The best way to set yourself up to use Combustion in this window is to proc Hot Streak and sit on it until right before Combustion is to be used. At this point, have an ignite on the target, cast Fireball and wait to see if it crits. The very exact second you see it crit, cast Pyroblast. If Pyroblast also crits, the amount of damage you will do from the combustion spread will be astronomical. Mages in my guild have a competition to see who can do the most damage with one combustion and our current leading record combustion did 5.2 Million damage (cast by Guromin).

Hagara is very similar, but instead the spreading will by onto frozen players. They will greatly appreciate the addition damage from a large combustion spread so they can resume dps on the boss.

If you have questions feel free to post them. If you just want to leave a comment to say it helped please do so because it helps with my data collection. If it did not work, I'm eager to hear what caused problems or where I wasn't clear

-Guromin

[DarthThrall]

Don't forget that on the dummy you are only self buffed with maybe Food and Flask if you use that for dummys.

You are missing raid buffs such as %10 SP and Kings etc. Also you didn't say what kind of gear you have got, if you are in ilvl 346 then I would say a 10-15k ignite is what you should be combusting on.

If you don;t have the 4 piece T13 I would suggest waiting around for a bit hoping for a big ignite, If you have full T13 then Combusting with a below average Ignite is better than waiting around for a minute hoping for a better one. So you can pop a crappy combustion but fear not... it will be off CD again in 1 minute.

[Incog]

The gear i have eqipped is ~397 with 4 piece T13.
I still must be missing something because the maximum combustion DPS I can get is around 10k, Maybee 11k if I'm very lucky.
Tried the very small interval between a fireball and pyro! proc to not lose ignite dmg due to munching, unsuccessful.
Tried (veryy hard) to roll just the fattest ignite and when I do recieve a high ignite finally, 9k is the max combustion.
I must be missing something still.
7k combustion seems to be my standard one when I'm combusting from any early high crit from fireball or pyro for T13 4 piece.
Is a 15k Combustion something that IS out of reach unless your very very lucky and raid buffed?

[Xami]

Imo it's not worth waiting for "the ideal" moment to combust, especially when it could make or break the difference between having one extra combustion or not. Keeping it on CD is even more important with 4pc T13 because, if it's not on CD, the set bonus provides 0 additional DPS.

I usually combust when I get HS proc (given pyro dot is already present), because at that point you are pretty much guaranteed to have had 2 fireball crits back to back, and while it's less than the theoretical maximum, it's strong enough and happens often enough. With my alt mage (~390), this will result in a combustion tick of around 10-12k. Don't wait for your Pyro to crit. You'd be wasting too much time without Combustion on CD.

[Nenvai]

Just dont use combustion before you got 2 crits after eachother. Pyro dot + crit isent that importent. Living bomb and Igning.

[Makarena]

What is the proper way to combust?
I understand LB+Pyro Dot+ High Ignite (Big Crit) Are the components of a good combustion but I hear of many stating they can have over 20k dps combustions. How is this possible? On a target dummy with all dots, and right after a big crit Ill combust for Maybee 10k...and thats being lucky.
Even fully raid buffed, all that good stuff, a combust doesn't come near 15k let alone 20k+. Is there something I'm missing? Like...really...
Pulled 32k on 10m H Ultraxion this week, with no 3% Dmg buff or 8% Magic damage debuff.

I've heard if you combust right after a double crit (One right after the other) it will force a very high ignite, but those probabilities suck and was still unable to reach a high combust even with this method.
Also heard Rolling Ignites as much as possible achieves a very high ignite..which again is very difficult to pull off and still doesn't stack to the magnitude to reach that plateau.

Armory:
us.battle.net /wow/en/character/tichondrius/Incognite/simple

If its not possible to have combust tick for 25k a second, let me know I'm unable to reach this goal.
Thank you all

Lets say you didn't have any ignite on boss before. You crit with fireball, then with another 1, then you fireball+pyroblast and if either of em crits - you combust. Thats, I dunno even ... pretty much the basic way to get not-so-bad combustion, although chances of this scenario to occur (3 crits or 4 crits in a row) is quite ... slim

[Incog]

Alright that will ease my mind a bit more then. Hearing the words of having a 20k+ Combustion scares the shit out of me, because unless its on a gimmick fight, I'll never see those ticks.

[Makarena]

the only way u can see those huge combustions is if u got legendary staff and it procs a fireball or pyro that ... simply crits in the scenario I've just described above.

[alucardtnuoc]

the only way u can see those huge combustions is if u got legendary staff and it procs a fireball or pyro that ... simply crits in the scenario I've just described above.

You don't need the legendary to get high ignite ticks, just with legendary it is easier to stack it. managed to roll a 170k ignite durring black phase on heroic yorsajh, but no impact procs at all =\

Thought i should edit it, 170k with legendary, i have gotten to 70-100k without.

[Makarena]

170k, jesus, thats honestly smth I can't really believe unless you show me the logs. I got 403 ilvl gear and sometimes its hard for me to get any good ignite (coz of rng ofc) and u got 170k, thats smth ... exaggareted imo ...

[Mohammed]

It isn't too bad, I get off 15-17k ignites pretty regularly, but if I see I have a good one (usually after HS proc) I will interrupt fireball cast to combust, so I don't lose an ignite tick. Alt mage, 385ish ilvl.

[Aquamonkey]

Back in T11 I had some Combustions ticking for 18k.