1. #8361
    Titan unholytestament's Avatar
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    Apparently this topic had gone too long without someone comparing it to another MMO...
    Some would ask
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    "Why would a perfect God create a universe at all?"

  2. #8362
    Quote Originally Posted by botulox View Post
    It makes it shit because it's lazy design. It's an MMO, you're supposed to compensate that stuff properly with higher latencies.
    In WoW the impact of latency below 300 is minimum, for example. And questing and stuff is perfectly doable with 2000ms latencies. Just to put an example of how forgiving it is due to proper design.

    In their case, they could have chosen to make "hitscan" abilities detect collisions clientside, yet they didn't, as a "just in a case someone may exploit it and we'd have to fix it or actually pay attention to our playerbase". Therefore, alienating a large number of players.
    What is...I..um...wow, so let's start from the top.

    How is it lazy design to expect people to have reasonable (1-200ms) latency while playing an online game? That's pretty much the standard that most games function around. With the kind of latency you seem to be hinting at, I'd be surprised if you could play any online game that required timing/positioning as you would be constantly out of sync. Some games lend themselves to being more "lag friendly" by requiring fewer positional/targeting requirements, but that's due to the way the game is designed to play, not due to latency considerations (usually).

    In WoW, you're right. Due to the ease of questing (painfully easy), and the combat system (i.e. static a la EQ1 with more emphasis put on pressing buttons and less on careful positioning), WoW is super friendly to high latency players while questing. Try PvPing or raiding though and you'll be killed constantly, because positioning and timing there matters.

    I'm not sure hot hit detection is calculated, but you should be upset with your ISP for having shit connect, or the publishers for not having local servers, not the game itself.

    Players with super high latency are a minority actually. And again, a game not being friendly to players with high latency doesn't make it "shit", it just means that it has a requirement with regards to internet connection speed, the same as games have hardware requirements. It sucks, and I'll never say that you can't complain about it, but calling the game "shit" because of it is pointless.

  3. #8363
    Quote Originally Posted by Xothic View Post
    You know why they don't do that? Because the sheer minority of their players are the ones with the 200-300 lat (assuming a fellow Australasian?). Almost everyone playing Tera US is from the US, just the same that the majority of KTera players are from Korea.

    Don't whine so hard when your minority isnt being catered too, TERA is NOT the financial powerhouse WoW is, they cant afford to just put in potentially expensive QoL things for the minority. Just learn how to play with latency, it isnt hard.
    Doubt any developer would compensate for pings above 200 even if it was a major part of the player base, and no developer would compensate for 2000 ping as you really don't have the connection to play games if you have that high. While it might be possible to get by solo in WoW with 2k ping it's not because they have a superb design, it has way more to do with how easy the game has become over the years, raiding with more than 350 is a pain in the ass.
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  4. #8364
    Epic! Xothic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    Doubt any developer would compensate for pings above 200 even if it was a major part of the player base, and no developer would compensate for 2000 ping as you really don't have the connection to play games if you have that high. While it might be possible to get by solo in WoW with 2k ping it's not because they have a superb design, it has way more to do with how easy the game has become over the years, raiding with more than 350 is a pain in the ass.
    Blizzard had, at one point, considered setting up a server in Australia, but Telstra is fucking retarded and wouldnt let them do it without jumping through some really stupid hoops.

    Also I feel like you quoted the wrong person.
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  5. #8365
    Quote Originally Posted by Xothic View Post
    Blizzard had, at one point, considered setting up a server in Australia, but Telstra is fucking retarded and wouldnt let them do it without jumping through some really stupid hoops.

    Also I feel like you quoted the wrong person.
    I've heard there are some legal shenanigans going on that make it difficult for publishers to host local APAC server clusters. Always was curious as to why that is. Never curious enough to investigate, but still curious.

  6. #8366
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusher View Post
    I've heard there are some legal shenanigans going on that make it difficult for publishers to host local APAC server clusters. Always was curious as to why that is. Never curious enough to investigate, but still curious.
    I'm like this for alot of things. Effort takes effort.
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  7. #8367
    Moderator Remilia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by botulox View Post
    It makes it shit because it's lazy design. It's an MMO, you're supposed to compensate that stuff properly with higher latencies.
    In WoW the impact of latency below 300 is minimum, for example. And questing and stuff is perfectly doable with 2000ms latencies. Just to put an example of how forgiving it is due to proper design.

    In their case, they could have chosen to make "hitscan" abilities detect collisions clientside, yet they didn't, as a "just in a case someone may exploit it and we'd have to fix it or actually pay attention to our playerbase". Therefore, alienating a large number of players.
    Umm... no.
    Just no.

    WoW's / EQ's game play mechanics are made in that fashion where you don't need it. The content is generally in my opinion, piss easy.

    Clientside based programs are terrible in a multiplayer game. Looking at you Dark Souls... lag souls...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dmnn3QXAQK0
    This is what happens with client side based interaction.
    Want to know how to abuse lag with client side interaction?
    Forcibly lag yourself, run up to a person, attack em a few time, remove said lag, suddenly you zoomed across the map, killed the person, and then move on. This isn't some 'just in case' this is a 'will happen'.

    Also this is your ISP that's the issue, not the game.
    Last edited by Remilia; 2013-01-22 at 07:37 AM.

  8. #8368
    Quote Originally Posted by botulox View Post
    It makes it shit because it's lazy design. It's an MMO, you're supposed to compensate that stuff properly with higher latencies.
    In WoW the impact of latency below 300 is minimum, for example. And questing and stuff is perfectly doable with 2000ms latencies. Just to put an example of how forgiving it is due to proper design.

    In their case, they could have chosen to make "hitscan" abilities detect collisions clientside, yet they didn't, as a "just in a case someone may exploit it and we'd have to fix it or actually pay attention to our playerbase". Therefore, alienating a large number of players.
    This is probably the best post I've read in awhile. Thanks for the laugh.

  9. #8369
    Quote Originally Posted by Xothic View Post
    Blizzard had, at one point, considered setting up a server in Australia, but Telstra is fucking retarded and wouldnt let them do it without jumping through some really stupid hoops.

    Also I feel like you quoted the wrong person.
    Not so much the wrong person as just following the flow of the conversation, you are correct in that the later parts wasn't aimed at you though.
    Last edited by Redblade; 2013-01-22 at 08:32 AM.
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  10. #8370
    Any news on when it might go F2P? Just bought it a few days ago and hoping my sub doesn't lapse before F2P starts. And are there any good news sites for Tera in the vein of MMO-Champ?

  11. #8371
    Quote Originally Posted by smartazjb0y View Post
    Any news on when it might go F2P? Just bought it a few days ago and hoping my sub doesn't lapse before F2P starts. And are there any good news sites for Tera in the vein of MMO-Champ?
    "Sometime February" for the F2P date, but as long as you have an account that has a retail copy attached to it, you should get the founder status (unless I misread it).

    As for fansites, I don't know of any.

  12. #8372
    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusher View Post
    "Sometime February" for the F2P date, but as long as you have an account that has a retail copy attached to it, you should get the founder status (unless I misread it).

    As for fansites, I don't know of any.
    Yeah, I definitely will have founder status (part of the reason why I bought Tera) but if my sub ends before Tera goes F2P I'll be SOL, though hopefully only for a few days.

  13. #8373
    Which version looks to be the best out of the EU or NA one?

  14. #8374
    Quote Originally Posted by Xothic View Post

    Don't whine so hard when your minority isnt being catered too, TERA is NOT the financial powerhouse WoW is, they cant afford to just put in potentially expensive QoL things for the minority. Just learn how to play with latency, it isnt hard.
    exactly why the games gone ftp & hardly has people playing it. screw the minority, and the minority screws you.
    learn to play with latency? the game is not good enough for doing that, not when there are plenty better games
    around that are lag friendly.

  15. #8375
    Quote Originally Posted by Himora View Post
    exactly why the games gone ftp & hardly has people playing it. screw the minority, and the minority screws you.
    Interesting that you of all people know the exact reason why the game is going free to play...

    Quote Originally Posted by Himora View Post
    learn to play with latency? the game is not good enough for doing that, not when there are plenty better games
    around that are lag friendly.
    Last I played I had around 35-50ms, this was at launch with tons of people on the server, don't blame the game for your bad connection. One can also wonder why you are here in this thread if there are so many games that not only allows you to play with your crap connection but also are so much better.
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  16. #8376
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    Interesting that you of all people know the exact reason why the game is going free to play...



    Last I played I had around 35-50ms, this was at launch with tons of people on the server, don't blame the game for your bad connection. One can also wonder why you are here in this thread if there are so many games that not only allows you to play with your crap connection but also are so much better.
    yes i know the exact reason why its gone free to play. last time YOU played you had 35ish ping, because you count as everyone & everyone lives where you do? how naive. if you want a game to be popular you need to cater to everyone, not just the americans & europians. and yes i do blame the game, if i get 150ms in WoW, rift, LoL, d3 but get 400 in tera.. that means the game is to blame... really is that simple.

  17. #8377
    Quote Originally Posted by Himora View Post
    yes i know the exact reason why its gone free to play.
    Highly doubt that but feel free to prove it...

    Quote Originally Posted by Himora View Post
    last time YOU played you had 35ish ping, because you count as everyone & everyone lives where you do? how naive.
    Never said I counted as everyone, I merely illustrated that there was nothing wrong with the game as far as ping goes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Himora View Post
    if you want a game to be popular you need to cater to everyone, not just the americans & europians.
    I'd say there are enough gamers between the US and EU to make a game popular so no, you don't need to cater to anyone else, you can but there is no necessity to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Himora View Post
    and yes i do blame the game, if i get 150ms in WoW, rift, LoL, d3 but get 400 in tera.. that means the game is to blame.
    No that means your ISP has issues communicating with the Tera servers, or some other issue along the way between the two, we already established it was possible to get a low ping for others. Again, don't blame the game because you have a shitty connection or live in the ass end of nowhere.
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  18. #8378
    Never said I counted as everyone, I merely illustrated that there was nothing wrong with the game as far as ping goes.
    for you. again, not everyone is you.

    I'd say there are enough gamers between the US and EU to make a game popular so no, you don't need to cater to anyone else, you can but there is no necessity to do so.
    thats the exact type thinking that is making the game sink further into the ocean of failure. the worlds bigger than the US & EU *gasp!*

    No that means your ISP has issues communicating with the Tera servers, or some other issue along the way between the two, we already established it was possible to get a low ping for others. Again, don't blame the game because you have a shitty connection or live in the ass end of nowhere.
    really, so if all other games give great pings, but tera doesnt.. its obviously not the games fault? LOL!!!
    Last edited by Himora; 2013-01-23 at 10:13 AM.

  19. #8379
    Quote Originally Posted by Himora View Post
    for you. again, not everyone is you.
    Why do I feel like we're going around in a circle here? Let me try to clarify it for you, if it would be the games fault that you had a high ping then everyone would suffer the same issue, or at least a sizable portion of the players.

    Quote Originally Posted by Himora View Post
    thats the exact type thinking that is making the game sink further into the ocean of failure. the worlds bigger than the US & EU *gasp!*
    Sure it is, don't make it a necessity to cater to the rest though, in fact most times western and easter gamers don't enjoy the same styles of games hence it can even be a bad idea to try and cater to both.

    Quote Originally Posted by Himora View Post
    really, so if all other games give great pings, but tera doesnt.. its obviously not the games fault? LOL!!!
    Because 150 is great ping now? I had better than that with my old Asuscom internal ISDN modem back in the day. Again the game works just fine for others, providing a low acceptable ping so no, it's not the games fault. It could be your ISP, Gameforge's ISP, any of the routing points between the two, or hell you could have surfed to much dodgy porn and it's something with your computer that affects the ping in a negative way. Or it could just be that you have a shitty ISP and live in the middle of nowhere resulting in a naturally high ping towards that data center.
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  20. #8380
    Pointless arguing with you Alyssa, the game went in the recycle bin very fast where it deserves to be. if you enjoy it then thats fine.. lots of people have incredibly low standards.

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