Do you think Sylvanas should die?

[Skytotem]

Personally I think she should die and be replaced with a Forsaken "Council" consisting of Apothecary Lydon, Lady Cozwyn, High Executor Anslem, and Alaric Hawkins.

EDIT: Because I am an idiot I forgot to click "Allow multiple choices" so write it into your posts :P


I Believe this because:

Currently it's stated in Edge of Night that she doesn't care about her people as anything other than Meatshields.

Sylvanas thought about her people. They had come far from their decimated origins, the yearning, confused mob of fresh corpses huddled about the ruins of Lordaeron's wrecked capital. The Forsaken were truly a nation now: a fetid, gore-caked, hideous mass of lifeless husks, skilled in combat, devastating with the arcane arts, and unhindered by fetters of morality. They had been honed into the perfect weapon. Her weapon. And they had struck the killing blow for which she had built them. She cared nothing for their fate.
"Let them perish!" Sylvanas cried. "I am finished with them!"

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/lor...ner/4#readmode


She's being looked at by the Argent Crusade

What is the Argent Crusade's relationship with the Forsaken, in light of Sylvanas's recent actions? Although the members of the Argent Crusade still stand by the Forsaken heroes who joined them in the battle against the Scourge, Sylvanas's actions since the slaying of Arthas have deeply concerned the crusaders. They, along with certain members of the Ebon Blade, are now watching Sylvanas and the Forsaken very closely, as similarities between her and the Lich King are increasing in number by the day.



She's made no real accomplishments in WoW, just one failure and rebellion after another (The Bloodstone thieves, Putress/Varimathras, and Stillwater in Hillsbrad). She's good fighting on her own (It was really badass in the Battle for Undercity the way she'd jump into the air, onto a flying doomguard, and crash it to the ground) but she led her troops into multiple ambushes in Silverpine (Seriously, she's an elf, how's she ambushed in a forest?) And generally just acting like a Mustache Twirling villain.


Right now it's hard to keep her ingame without making the Alliance seem ineffective, the Neutral groups weak, and the Horde seem evil AND stupid.



What do YOU think though?


(Personally I don't think Lilian Voss is a good replacement since she's a magic the gathering reference to Planeswalker Vess)

[Tanker]

Kill her. Nuff said. Jaina should not have stopped Varian.

[Klasis]

Redeem her. She is like one of the deepest characters in all of Warcraft.

[Skytotem]

Redeem her. She is like one of the deepest characters in all of Warcraft.

I don't really think it's possible I just put it up there since I knew people would suggest it anyway.

1. How's she deep?

2. When she first went to "Wow hell" in her story her first thought wasn't

"Oh, I should be a better person the way I was when I was alive"

or

"oh, I should study the way undeath affects the soul so we forsaken can go to the warm fuzzy afterlife"

it was

"Kill everything so I live forever since there will be no one to kill me"

She's evil.

[Asatru]

With as much shit as she's been through...the only thing that would make me happy is redemption. I'd like to see her at her sisters side in Dalaran or by MY side slaying all the retarded pandas next expansion.

---------- Post added 2012-02-12 at 07:31 AM ----------

I don't really think it's possible I just put it up there since I knew people would suggest it anyway.

1. How's she deep?

2. When she first went to "Wow hell" in her story her first thought wasn't

"Oh, I should be a better person the way I was when I was alive"

or

"oh, I should study the way undeath affects the soul so we forsaken can go to the warm fuzzy afterlife"

it was

"Kill everything so I live forever since there will be no one to kill me"

She's evil.

You don't know much about the effects of physical and mental torture do you?

[mizeri]

if anybody that needs to die its the BE dude, i mean he has no role at all, shouldnt a new king or prince take over, you mean to tell me kael didnt have any random chick he slept with that produced a heir that could take over?

[Treeskee]

i think sylvannas should rise up and kill garrosh then help make vol'jin the leader of the horde

[Unitos]

Screw that. They already took Thrall away from the horde, don't take Sylvanas too!

[Skytotem]

With as much shit as she's been through...the only thing that would make me happy is redemption. I'd like to see her at her sisters side in Dalaran or by MY side slaying all the retarded pandas next expansion.

---------- Post added 2012-02-12 at 07:31 AM ----------



You don't know much about the effects of physical and mental torture do you?

1. I'd like you to keep it civil

2. The one of the first things the Forsaken did after getting free will was to make a deal with the human racist jackass Garithos. Garithos uncharacteristically kept his end of the bargain. Sylvanas killed him and his men, then went on to say they were "Forsaken"

They wouldn't have been Forsaken by anyone if they hadn't betrayed the Alliance in the first place!

She didn't go seek Alleria or her people for comfort.

They didn't align with other groups preaching cooperation against the scourge.

They went from "What joy is there in this curse?" to "Let's make everyone else undead!"

They were abused and suffered horribly, I get that.

It doesn't make it okay to abuse others.

[Callei]

Two things:
1) This is business-related. Let's keep this discussion civil--Asatru, that means the whole 'retarded pandas' shit stops now. If you can't express your opinion without being insulting, keep it to yourself.
2) This is on-topic. I'd like to see Sylvanas stay in charge, she's one of my favorite Warcraft characters because she makes no bones about what she's doing. She's conquering Lordaeron for the Forsaken, everyone else can go hang. She doesn't try to gussy her goals up in hypocritical virtues that she then never shows like the Warchief does, and she always opts for the path of fewest casualties (for her). If she must change, then yes, by all means, redeem her and portray her like the other Forsaken--many of them have a rather wry sense of humor and in some cases, act rather heroic, throwing you to safety and the like. But Sylvanas has the same problem Cairne had--she's been in charge for 12 years in real-world time, and nobody else among her race/faction has been given enough characterization to make for a viable candidate for succession. Cairne lucked out in that he had an heir, for Sylvanas, she is the Forsaken. They gather around her as the largest force of free-willed undead, and with the Forsaken, they've got a real crack at a second life thanks to her. She's pulled off so much that any replacement would just feel flat and uninspiring by comparison.

[Regennis]

From the same story you quoted from:

"The army of undead that surrounded and protected the Dark Lady was still hers, body and soul. But they were no longer arrows in her quiver, not anymore. They were a bulwark against the infinite. They were to be used wisely, and no fool orc would squander them while she still walked the world of the living."

Directly opposes the part you underline. The part you quote is describing her past. The part I quote is describing her present and future.

She is the best leader for the Forsaken.

[Baiyn]

See one of the only good WoW characters left undone? No, thanks.

She's only just getting her plans into motion. I want to see what future expansions have in store for her Lordaeron campaign. She can't die yet!

Not only should she stay alive and remain leader of the Forsaken but the Convocation of Silvermoon should be reformed and she should be made an honoury member of Quel'Thalas' ruling body. More power to her. >=D

If she has to die before the end of the Warcraft franchise's existence, it should be by Lor'themar or Alleria's hand. Preferably though, she outlives the franchise. =)

[Shinryu]

Depends, if she continues down her batshit crazy wannabe LK path, I say kill her for the sake of not having to go through that whole scenario again. Not to mention "reproduction" of Forsaken by Valkyr is downright creepy.

But if she changes paths and just goes back to being the crazy bitch who wants to wipe everyone out with plague, that's fine.

[Noobadin]

Sylvanas should stay as the leader. We need a crazy leader in power in one of the factions.

LEAVE SYLVANAS ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kevyne-Shandris]

Does this answer the question enough?

[Army of Darkness]

There's no doubt Sylvanas is a bad person and generally "evil" (As subjective as that term is). With that said, I disagree with you that she should die due to her incompetence.

She originally conquered most of Lorderon virtually overnight despite most of her army being composed of disenhearted lower ranking undead, all the while facing opposition from the Scourge, the Burning Legion, and Alliance zealots under Garithos.

In between the events of The Third War and the Cataclysm, we can see then Forsaken has since evolved into one of Azeroth's greatest military powers with notable weapons under their disposle such the New Plague and the legendary Forsaken Deathstalkers under her command.

Fast forward past Cataclysm, and we can see she's made the most territorial gains out of all the Horde leaders. With the Forsaken having generally conquered all land in the Eastern Kingdoms north of the Thandol Span.

Obvioiusly she has a long list of oops moments on her record, but in part, that's mainly due to the fact that she's arguably one of the most active racial leaders in the game.

Not to mention most military commanders in wow tend to be poor tacticians and strategists by IRL standards >.>. Saying Sylvanas is a good military in comparison to the other wow racial leaders, is like calling her the smartest person on the Cheerleading squad. It's by no means a feat that she can brag about.

/Fanboyism off

As for her being replaced because of her negative attitude towards her troops. One can say the Forsaken are merely the playable incarceration of the Scourge, for which why many Warcraft 3 veterans chose Forsaken is because of the fact that the Forsaken remind them so much of the Scourge from W3. As such, it should make sense for the Forsaken to naturally have an "evil" faction leader instead of some random council of noble heroes.

[Taurous]

I enjoy Sylvanas' leadership purely because she just doesn't care. She's a real badass who will kill anything in her way. I'd rather her become the villian of an xpac, than die or be redeemed. At least she'd still be badass for a little while longer.

[PetersenIII]

"The army of undead that surrounded and protected the Dark Lady was still hers, body and soul. But they were no longer arrows in her quiver, not anymore. They were a bulwark against the infinite. They were to be used wisely, and no fool orc would squander them while she still walked the world of the living."

Directly opposes the part you underline. The part you quote is describing her past. The part I quote is describing her present and future.

...actually, no it doesn't. Not really. She "cares" about them, but only in so far as they are a meat shield to die for her. That passage is saying she'll hold them to die for *her* ends, not Garrosh's. Doesn't imply anything about her caring for them as a people as a leader should. I really hope she does die, but Blizzard knows that would piss off all the gothy necros who want to get their freak on with a walking dead body, and they'd never hear the end of it.

[Asatru]

Two things:
1) This is business-related. Let's keep this discussion civil--Asatru, that means the whole 'retarded pandas' shit stops now. If you can't express your opinion without being insulting, keep it to yourself.
2) This is on-topic. I'd like to see Sylvanas stay in charge, she's one of my favorite Warcraft characters because she makes no bones about what she's doing. She's conquering Lordaeron for the Forsaken, everyone else can go hang. She doesn't try to gussy her goals up in hypocritical virtues that she then never shows like the Warchief does, and she always opts for the path of fewest casualties (for her). If she must change, then yes, by all means, redeem her and portray her like the other Forsaken--many of them have a rather wry sense of humor and in some cases, act rather heroic, throwing you to safety and the like. But Sylvanas has the same problem Cairne had--she's been in charge for 12 years in real-world time, and nobody else among her race/faction has been given enough characterization to make for a viable candidate for succession. Cairne lucked out in that he had an heir, for Sylvanas, she is the Forsaken. They gather around her as the largest force of free-willed undead, and with the Forsaken, they've got a real crack at a second life thanks to her. She's pulled off so much that any replacement would just feel flat and uninspiring by comparison.

I'm still scratching my head as to whom I insulted atm or are there currently some pandas posting on this forum?

---------- Post added 2012-02-12 at 07:59 AM ----------

1. I'd like you to keep it civil

2. The one of the first things the Forsaken did after getting free will was to make a deal with the human racist jackass Garithos. Garithos uncharacteristically kept his end of the bargain. Sylvanas killed him and his men, then went on to say they were "Forsaken"

They wouldn't have been Forsaken by anyone if they hadn't betrayed the Alliance in the first place!

She didn't go seek Alleria or her people for comfort.

They didn't align with other groups preaching cooperation against the scourge.

They went from "What joy is there in this curse?" to "Let's make everyone else undead!"

They were abused and suffered horribly, I get that.

It doesn't make it okay to abuse others.

I wonder where in my post that I wasn't "civil" o.O. Anyway, for YEARS these "people" were bound, tortured, maimed, mutilated, risen again and repeated...of course they aren't going to be 100% in the right mind bro.

[Kavoo]

i think sylvannas should rise up and kill garrosh then help make vol'jin the leader of the horde

this x1000

And wtf is wrong with her being evil ? Srsly... shes a freaking zombie queen. I want her even more evil than ever. Whats wrong with having an evil faction leader in a video game ? You people are afraid of being evil in a video game ? Go play Draenei then, leave the Forsaken alone.

I wish horde was more evil.