Fire needs some help (again)

**Morgasto** · 2012-02-13, 01:35 AM

A typical example of what makes me feel bad after a kill is : worldoflogs.com/reports/igjqlc2tzg0mrq0m/analyze/dd/source/?s=2718&e=3040

Especially Ultraxion, is a fight where I just can't get the numbers needed to raid in HM. I always thought I knew how to use Combustion good enough to be 'decent', but after a few weeks in HM's i'm starting to doubt myself.
I think the main-issue for me is just this. I'm using combustionhelper, and up untill now I was sure to use it as it should. But what I think being the biggest problem of my low performances is, is when I have all dots up with an ignite, for example, 18k.. After I used combustion and during the ignite countdown I automatically get a lower number. Is the ignite you see at first when I used combustion, so the 18k, the only number that counts and is that then what keeps me below the average?
My raidleader is all ok with it and I don't hear anyone complaining but I am just never satisfied with what I bring to the group.

So this is just 'another' thread about what people have been making threads off since fire has been buffed. I've been reading and researching allot about the class but it seems that it doesnt help me for my performance, in DPS numbers.
But I would appreciated it allot of some experienced people could help me and advise me things.

Best regards, Morgasto

**erna2005** · 2012-02-13, 01:53 AM

If I'm understanding your question correctly, then yes, the only ignite that matters is the one that's up when you actually press the combustion keybind. Anything after that is simply an ignite, just like any other ignite that you get while combustion is on cooldown. If you're asking about having an 18k ignite, casting combustion, and then seeing that your ignite has dropped significantly, I believe that is from the actual direct damage of combustion critting, and my understanding is that this new, often times lower, ignite is not the ignite that is factored into your combustion DoT.

Hope that helps :x

**Eilee** · 2012-02-13, 02:00 AM

Get combustionhelper addon and understand what it is showing you.

**SnorlaxJeng** · 2012-02-13, 02:31 AM

Use Mage Nuggets, the window thingy on Combustionhelper really doesn't make it any obvious. Do not hope on Pyroblast crits to do high Combustion you will most likely be disappointed. When you get a few fireballs critting your ignite numbers up to 30-40k total damage its already good to pop it. Even more so if you have 4p T13. Using it frequently is essential compared to getting that omgwtfbbq 17-20k Combustion ticks. Also stay as close to your target as possible.

Projectile travel time sucks, we should be shooting fire lazors... I would also like to highlight that due to the recent nerfs on Fireball and Pyroblast. Scorch has only about 1k-2k DPS difference compared to Fireball spam, being that having less Ignite Munch and higher Pyroblast! procs. Don't stretch yourself too much cause there are some fights its better to scorch abit and weave to conserve mana especially with lesser gears.

Secondly I would recommend also getting a scrolling text like Mik, as you would want to highlight Pyroblast and Fireball criticals.

**Ted** · 2012-02-13, 10:44 AM

i just checked my log and compared it to your log, sure we did Ultrax NM and u HM but i checked for the combustion dmg, you did around 75k ish dps in that phase 2 times, i did 85k ish dps in that phase 2 times, my combustions wherent that good in that night, but they are far better then yours..

you have 500 SP more than my mage, 4% more haste 4% more crit, so you normaly should do better than me ;P

as the above post from Snorlax, check for the pyro or fb crits on ultrax, if you have LB up, and u did a decent crit pop comb..

**sahu** · 2012-02-13, 10:47 AM

er dude not to be mean or start trolling or something but if ur only doing 31k u might be doing something wrong,i play fire mage as main myself and (yes i have dragonwrath) but my gear is no where near what yours is.i can do 42k on Ultraxion 10 man quite easily.having said that looking at your raid comp its kinda sucky for you as a caster.unless the rogues master poisoner or the hunters being nice with a serpent you're going to lose a crap load of dps.with number getting what they are now the lack of say 3% here(arcane,ret buff etc),4% sp (lock shaman) 8% (boomkin,lock,rogue) can really add up mate.u and the priest seem pretty even so it seems mostly ur just getting stiffed by bad raid composition..

**Ted** · 2012-02-13, 11:00 AM

well i got ilvl 390 and no dragonwrath, with dragonwrath i should do 5,5k dps more than w/o it, simmed with rawr, so dragonwrath is shitload of a dps boost..

**gunhound45** · 2012-02-13, 11:01 AM

The first ignite value that combustion helper displays is a prediction of the ignite tick. If it changes after the tick happens, then server lag is degrading its accuracy.

Look for an option to change the ignite predictor timing within combustionhelper.

**andreas1999** · 2012-02-13, 12:53 PM

I got rid of CombustionHelper because I found it too cluttered with information. And, although I'm sure it's ignite prediction is good, I just wasn't sure if my failed combustions was because of a bad prediction by CombustionHelper or ignite munching or whatever other reason.

In the end I made my own addon which only displays the ignite as well as the current haste or combustion ticks. You could try myBigIgnite if you want an addon that doesn't do any prediction on the ignites.

**Ted** · 2012-02-13, 01:32 PM

@andreas1999

u made ur own addon? did u upload it anywhere? would be pleased to test it out

**JohnnyQuest** · 2012-02-13, 01:51 PM

Combustion Helper shows you the value of the Ignite tick, not the DPS of Ignite.

Ignite ticks every 2 seconds, so a tick of 18k is 9k DPS.

**BaP** · 2012-02-13, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by sahu

er dude not to be mean or start trolling or something but if ur only doing 31k u might be doing something wrong,i play fire mage as main myself and (yes i have dragonwrath) but my gear is no where near what yours is.i can do 42k on Ultraxion 10 man quite easily.having said that looking at your raid comp its kinda sucky for you as a caster.unless the rogues master poisoner or the hunters being nice with a serpent you're going to lose a crap load of dps.with number getting what they are now the lack of say 3% here(arcane,ret buff etc),4% sp (lock shaman) 8% (boomkin,lock,rogue) can really add up mate.u and the priest seem pretty even so it seems mostly ur just getting stiffed by bad raid composition..

This is very true, the hunter is using a cat so the melee are getting

Roar of Courage Level 85
45 sec cooldown
The beast lets out a roar of courage, increasing the Strength and Agility of all party and raid members by 549 within 100 yards. Lasts for 1 min.

you do have a feral druid for

Leader of the Pack
Requires Cat Form, Bear Form
While in Cat Form or Bear Form, the Leader of the Pack increases critical strike chance of all party and raid members within 100 yards by 5%. In addition, your melee critical strikes in Cat Form and Bear Form cause you to heal for 4% of your total health and gain 4% of your maximum mana. This effect cannot occur more than once every 6 sec.

which you would be getting from the shadow priest "Mind Quickening" if you didn't have the druid.
The hunter really should be using either a Dragonhawk for

Fire Breath Special Ability
40 yd range
Channeled 30 sec cooldown
Breathes Fire on the target, increasing magic damage taken by 8% for 45 sec.

or a Wind Serpent for

Lightning Breath Special Ability
40 yd range
Channeled 30 sec cooldown
Breathes lightning, increasing magic damage taken by 8% for 45 sec.

since the raid has a feral druid already.

**Morgasto** · 2012-02-13, 03:20 PM

Okay guys, I have some things where I can work with so thanks allot everyone!
I've just now downloaded Mik and made a treshold on Combustionhelper (I'll keep using this as it have helped me allot in the past) of 20k & now it's time to keep practising in LFR.
If anyone got some more advise I'm always open to listen, cheers in advance.

Regards, Morgasto

**announced** · 2012-02-13, 03:23 PM

jus make sure u renew lb before u combust.. although most people say dont rely on pyroblast crits i find im getting much higher combustions just by watching ignite ticks reach 25k+ then throwing out pyroblast and lb. and hitting combustion if pyro crits..

**andreas1999** · 2012-02-13, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by Ted

@andreas1999

u made ur own addon? did u upload it anywhere? would be pleased to test it out

It'll be on Curse soon, but if you want to try it out you can get it from: http://thesundancekid.net/Ignition.zip

I really only made it for myself so it's constantly being changed and updated. For example, you can show crits from fireball and pyroblasts using "/ignition crits". What I wanted was just an addon which could help me decide for myself when I should use Combustion.

**BaP** · 2012-02-13, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by andreas1999

It'll be on Curse soon, but if you want to try it out you can get it from: http://thesundancekid.net/Ignition.zip

I really only made it for myself so it's constantly being changed and updated. For example, you can show crits from fireball and pyroblasts using "/ignition crits". What I wanted was just an addon which could help me decide for myself when I should use Combustion.

Hey thanks, gave this a quick try and like it a lot....anyway to hide it out of combat ??

**andreas1999** · 2012-02-14, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by BaP

Hey thanks, gave this a quick try and like it a lot....anyway to hide it out of combat ??

Thanks! I'll make sure to make it hideable out of combat. I'll PM you when I've added it

.

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