Pvp

[God8010]

This is just my rant. I am frustrated but I will not be cussing or blaming people or anything else that would be completely pointless. This is just a list of reasons why I hate world of warcraft pvp and the direction it has taken.

"All men are created equal, just some men are more equal than others."

There is no desire to bring classes up to par. Mage(Just for this example, though mage is not my only gripe) has the damage of pure damage classes, yet holds its spamable cc. Infact Mage can even out-damage damage spec's with little or no utility. The design of mage was built around snares. If you let yourself get snared, you deserved to be deep frozen. If you let the pet cast you into a snare, you deserve to be deep frozen. However he needs neither of those. One talent when proc'd allows the basic mechanics of this class to completely ignore its core structure and drain you for near half of your hp all from range.

This would be where someone would argue "well you have your healer to dispel you," but again that would be wrong. My healer gets "counterspelled." The very ability misleads you into thinking that this skill will counter someone who is casting a spell. However yet another cute little talent completely breaks the mechanics and turns a "counterspell" into a "spell lock." By doing this, now the mage has no need to juke Shadow Word: Death and can free cast poly before coming back to me and removing my face.

But now I'm told I am just complaining and need to L2P. Ok, for the next bit I am going to be snared again and again and again and again and again for most of the match. If I am not snared, Ill be slowed by a slow 25% stronger than my non cc class can offer. A blue post finally talks about the issue months past when it could have mattered to me and admits mage cc is out of control. They even admit frost snares are on "a random dr." What this means to me is I will never dr on being snared. I will require so much dispels that there is no way to prevent my healer from going oom even when she is allowed to dispel. You know, when shes not being "counterspelled" at a time shes not casting a spell.

However, lets pretend all these tools are on some magical dr that actually works and he is open for a kill. NO no no no- low and behold mage can reach into its fire tree for yet ANOTHER utility spell, impact. A completely new dr to the mage leaving just a big enough window to cast everyones favorite spell Polymorph. God knows having the snare dr which is a "lolrandom dr" wasnt enough, frost mage really needs a completely new dr cc. Now one might argue with so much cc on so many dr's, the damage must have to pay for the utility, but then match arms damage to frost damage and tell me where the payment was made. This is when people who dont even enjoy pvp come in and say "But I like to raid as frost, so frost needs the damage in PVE."

NOONE ON GODS GREEN EARTH RAIDS IN FROST SPEC. I wanted to pull my hair out months ago when I read that as the excuse for frost mage damage.

And on a last note about mage, if all the above stuff didnt drive you nuts when it dropped your friend, let me introduce you to a spell called "Cold Snap." A spell which resets all frost mage cd's. Another blue post comments on spells that reset cd's (not too long ago I might add.) They claim the tools of the class are only half that of classes without abilities to reset their cooldowns. Going as far as to say that mages require abilities like "cold snap" to be on par with abilities from classes which cannot reset their cooldowns. So mr arms warrior with no uptime and mr ret paladin who gave his wings to this mage class- mr frost death knight and your pillar of frost- Are you aware that your cd's are twice as powerful as all the mage cd's. The blues said so.

Mage is just one class that drives me nuts with how overpowered it has remained for the entirety of this expansion. I could write something like this up for rogue, not so long ago I could write this up for blood death knight. I could write something like this up about feral druids and the non-stop predatory swiftness procs from a extremely high dps class which can slip into bear and become a tank all while pretending to be a dps spec.

This is where someone argues about hard counters. (I will note blues claimed they wished to remove hard counters, it just has yet to be done.)

A mage hard counters a warrior. He counters a warrior in such a way that the mage can take next to no real damage for the entire fight. You could ask any mage over 2200, and he will tell you "I only need half my cd's to kill a warrior." -Oblivnati (Azgalor server)

Now classes that have become the only real competitive classes in the game, mage rogue druid shammy lock a handful of hunters a couple death knights and a priest here or there. Lets talk about mage hard counter.

Im told hunters counter mage. Well, the mage seems to be doing damage to the hunter. The mage can kill the hunter. The mage just has to work harder than he would against a warrior, but with effort can claim victory over the hunter. Yet this is mages hard counter.

The design of the game moving away from 1v1 balance has just made many spec's obsolete. When the 1v1 balance is so far gone, people have no need for these spec's. They become dead weight around classes that can do all the damage they can and more, plus offer three times the utility. So now players who didnt pick the magical class have friends leaving them alone in the world of warcraft. Their only option is to reroll to something the group has a whole can use or just stop playing. People want to feel that with hard work and effort they can overcome. That is simply not the case with wow. With wow, you must "be assimilated or be eliminated."

Im sorry, I have a family and children and a job. I cannot afford to be leveling a new class that was allowed to function against the other classes each patch just because we cant get fair treatment for all. I would drop WOW in a -HEARTBEAT- if another mmo could just offer the graphics of wow with the idea balance is mathematics. WOW's stance on balance in Ghostcrawlers own words is "Balance is an ART."

You heard me correctly, in a game of numbers... This man has it in him to claim this is art.

In fact.. after rereading this and really taking the time to think about what I am saying before I post this, I have decided to cancel my account. One day a mmo worth the time I put into wow will come by, but I just refuse to take this anymore. Ive been your warrior punching bag for far too long and I understand you didnt want me around anymore anyway. So here, you win. I give up. I am defeated both in game and in spirit. Writing this post might have been the best thing I could have ever done for myself.

[Gandrake]

as much as i loved chasing mages in wotlk as a ret paladin

you really have to ask yourself how a mage would kill anyone w/o deep freeze. probably still hand your ass to you in a duel, but i doubt that mages would still be viable in arenas

game is not balanced around 2s, and 2s have been disgustingly out of control. Warriors suck at duels and almost always have, welcome to the club of masochists who only play warriors for charge.

[PizzaSHARK]

The only thing that needs to change is the free Fingers of Frost just for using pet freeze. Being able to root someone at range and then instantly stun (and freeze) anyone else is stupid.

Probably why it's being removed in MoP.

[Kreeshak]

very well written.

[icedwarrior]

Im sorry, I have a family and children and a job. I cannot afford to be leveling a new class...

Horrible argument to make, especially after raising legitimate complaints. I get that time is a finite source, but if you don't enjoy something, then don't do it. There's other things to do in the game aside from getting destroyed in PvP, you know. And leveling in Cataclysm is absurdly easy and fast. Especially if you have heirlooms / RAF / etc. It's a joke, really.

Your post is well-written, but... as usual, you overstate your case. Hunters do kill Mages. I *want* to say locks can, but iirc, they don't anymore (disclaimer: I don't PvP anymore. I very well could be incorrect). Rogues have a legit shot at killing them. Am I saying that mages are balanced? No. They have it way to good. But you're making them out to be immortal beings that stare at things and they fall over, which simply isn't the case.

You also never state which class you play. You seem to play with a priest, which I would assume means that you're a rogue, but you never state any specific abilities or anything to that nature, so it's difficult to say anything other than "well, do something else that you enjoy".

Also, some links to look at:

- http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/17...tor-breakdown/ . This shows that the first eight seasons, mages have ranked consistently in the middle of the pack.

- http://www.arenastats.com/index.php?...000&mt=5&mg=50 . Again, mages consistently at the middle of the pack.

And, a point I always want to bring up: what skill level are we talking about, here? Are we talking about the infamous "keyboard turners"? 1500? 2500? There's a huge difference. Of course mages shine at low ratings, but it balances out the higher you get to, which is where I feel it should be balanced around. But I really don't want to get into a debate about what skill level / casual / etc WoW is being catered to. I'm really over that discussion.

Again, I'm not saying that mages are balanced; what I'm saying is that it's not all it's cracked up to be. They have a myriad of tools, but PvP isn't balanced for 1v1, or 2v2 for that matter. Again, I'm left with the question: "Okay, so...what is there to discuss here...umm, mages are OP, they need nerfs!oneone"? Not much of a platform for discussion, really, and anything that is said is very likely to start a "X IS OP!" conversation, which of course is very subjective.

[PizzaSHARK]

For what it's worth, leveling speed really isn't an issue. Heirlooms aren't difficult to get, and if you have money but not time, you can easily get to 85 in a day or two through Recruit-a-Friend. It'll cost you the price of a month's subscription and I would assume the associated expansions, plus the cost to transfer the character to your primary account... but it'll also save you probably a week's worth of playtime.

[icedwarrior]

Offtopic: I love your quote in your signature, PizzaSHARK.

On topic: I find it humorous that you posted in http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...3#post15279233 , in which you basically refute a lot of what you're saying.

No one man is an army. Not the warrior or the healer or its third. It's the combination of the 2/3 that makes them what they both are as a whole.

Specifically. But, again, there's not much to discuss here. You go on to say at the end of your original post on this thread:

In fact.. after rereading this and really taking the time to think about what I am saying before I post this, I have decided to cancel my account. One day a mmo worth the time I put into wow will come by, but I just refuse to take this anymore. Ive been your warrior punching bag for far too long and I understand you didnt want me around anymore anyway. So here, you win. I give up. I am defeated both in game and in spirit. Writing this post might have been the best thing I could have ever done for myself.

Sounds to me like WoW is and has been toxic to you, so I say congrats for giving up WoW. I'm not saying this as "good riddance", but it's obvious to me that you shouldn't be playing this game, when you've stated you're "defeated in both game and in spirit. ...this is the best thing I could have ever done for myself."

Oh, and people do raid as Frost in PvE. Not a whole lot, but enough of people do. So yeah, don't pull random things out of the air to make your argument more convincing.

[Peruh]

Option 1:

Youre a warrior. You have my respect for keep playing this class.
Deal with it, as a warrior pvp sux atm.

Option 2:

Respecc, almost every class has a specc which is vviable.....


Peruh



ps: didnt read entire post.

[icedwarrior]

ps: didnt read entire post.

That certainly helps. Why post if you didn't read it?

I assume he's arms, considering it's the "most viable spec" for Warriors. He *could* spec fury, but that's...well, not as good. And Prot is really only "good" for flag running. So, yeah, respecing really isn't that great of an option. His post details as to why he no longer wants to "deal with it", if you had read it. TL;DR posts are very annoying.

[purfias]

I have no idea what you base your fact on right here, but I asume you go out of the view of only one class. I for one find mages rather fun to fight as a feral druid, in my eyes they cant do much other then peel me off and the only time they can find to do damage to me is during deep freeze when I can simply barkskin to midigate the damage and if I see it coming already be in bear stance.

When I was playing on my priest I didnt find it very hard either, It was a simply fight over who controll who better and even though they had mor cc then I had, it would seem like my team was winning more cause we beat them several times (RMP vs PSD)

[Kekkeri]

I have no idea what you base your fact on right here, but I asume you go out of the view of only one class. I for one find mages rather fun to fight as a feral druid, in my eyes they cant do much other then peel me off and the only time they can find to do damage to me is during deep freeze when I can simply barkskin to midigate the damage and if I see it coming already be in bear stance.

Your eyes are blind my friend.

Barkskin has a 1 minute cooldown and deep has a 30 second cooldown.

You have 2 rootbreakers on a 2 and 2.4 minute cooldowns, he can root you 3 times every 25 seconds.

Bear form = -18% damage, congratulations on taking a 41k shatter instead of 50k. Plus one more ice lance.

Good ferals can beat bad mages, sure. Especially if there is LoS to abuse. But when you say "you have no idea", I have no idea what kind of mages you're playing against.

[PizzaSHARK]

Your eyes are blind my friend.

Barkskin has a 1 minute cooldown and deep has a 30 second cooldown.

You have 2 rootbreakers on a 2 and 2.4 minute cooldowns, he can root you 3 times every 25 seconds.

Bear form = -18% damage, congratulations on taking a 41k shatter instead of 50k. Plus one more ice lance.

Good ferals can beat bad mages, sure. Especially if there is LoS to abuse. But when you say "you have no idea", I have no idea what kind of mages you're playing against.

Probably the window-licking, keyboard-turning, clicking mongoloids that tend to comprise the majority of the playerbase? :-/

[Kekkeri]

Probably the window-licking, keyboard-turning, clicking mongoloids that tend to comprise the majority of the playerbase? :-/

:P lolled, could be that.

[Makarena]

Ok I'm a relatively new to pvp and my impressions about mage class that I'm playing whole my wow career (since END OF WOTLK so u can imagine how long i'm playing)
1)All my snares, all my ccs, all my defensive cds - everything pretty much what I'm capable of as a mage - is DISPELLABLE, and moreover, SPAM-DISPELLABLE. You can't dispell shieldwall, u can't dispell barkskin(you can dispell iceblock though), u can't dispell sprint(yet u can dispell icy veins - thats more of the offensive cds I guess), u can't dispell cloak of shadows, u can't dispell bestial wrath, rapidfire, deterrance - literally every class has some of its abilities undispellable which leads to the assumption that mage class is totally CONTROLLABLE if you, of course, know how to do it. You can even fucking dispell impact and brainfreeze proc (thanks god u actually CAN'T dispell fingers of frost)
2)Unlike many other classes my dmg relies only on the fact that target is snared/frozen. Both of these scenarios are preventable with DISPELL(yet again).
3)A spell-lock on frost (my dmgin spec) means that I'm absolutly vulnerable to any dmg in the next 8 seconds (can't even iceblock or ice barrier) unlike any other class like shadow priest, warlock or even boomkin who can just teleport away or spamheal themselves. At the same time though, dare to say these 2 classes are less capable of doing nice dmg in arenas. Also I like how u can CS a shadow priest on SHADOW and he can still disperse after that if being switched on or whatever.
4)Now about the blanket silence from the counterspell. Majority of times its done to actually prevent ur debuffs from being dispelled... or yeah, if you want to put more pressure on target after getting every cc/interrupt u got on a single DR they have (deep+ring &nova/petnova which, in the end, when last like 1 sec on very strong DR, won't even let u do a proper shatter) I'd actually ask why the hell do warlocks have blanket silence from their spell-lock, seems quite unfair providing that their dots are protected (aka all their dmg) unlike mage's and their pressure with fear that doesn't even break instantly + coil that ain't even dr'ed with fear (I think, but might be wrong there) same with shadow priest.

I think I could say more about how hunters tear mages apart, how warriors can reflect shatter (even though its supposed to reflect 1 spell), how grounding totem can ground polymorph+deepfreeze at the same time and how u can actually morph out of roots as druid.