My issues with Warlocks.

[asharia]

uuuuh

warlocks are in a great place. UA is irreplaceable

[ambigiouslynamed]

Frost mages are fine in high level arenas. They only dominate BG's and low level Arenas. I do think they have excessive CC but that will be changed in MoP.

Rogues on the other hand, are pretty much unstoppable by all casters... Frost mages can't really deal with them either, although they deal with them the best out of all the casters.

You forget that rogues can silence and slow a mage for ages, which not even frost mages can counter.

im calling BS on anything you say if you are going to claim rogues can silence

[proVoke]

im calling BS on anything you say if you are going to claim rogues can silence

Erm, Garrote?

[Dald]

thread full of trolls
Locks are doing more than fine

Infracted.

[Charge me Doctor]

I know I don't have a massive post count a shiny picture underneath my post but here me out.

I came back to Warcraft a few days ago, I haven't played for over six months and I decided upon returning to the game to give time to my warlock (gnome ftw) who was sitting around lv 35 ish and for which I'd pvp'd pretty much relentlessly before the patch, It was also fully heir-loomed equipped because at the start of the year I leveled up a mage...

Now heres my point. If someone was to ask me 'what class should I be? A Warlock or a Mage.' I would say Mage 100% of the time. Warlocks are so much worse than Mages It's pretty shameful tbh.

Now I know people will ring out 'game is only balanced for lv 85' or 'warlocks pwn in arena' or 'lol another mages are op thread' or something but I just need to vent what I know to be true.

PVE

If your levelling up a warlock through the dungeon finder your dps will always be worse than a similairly geared frost or arcane mage. On one end are cast times are huge while dots on enemies that with todays upgraded classes steamroll through most dungeon mobs and bosses and are pretty neglible compared to massive nukes such as frostbolt and arcane blast. Fire under level 70 doesnt have the crit rating to be as good early on but it's still comparative with any warlock spec.

PVP

Anyone will tell you that Frost mages are the demi gods of -85 pvp. Lets say a rogue sneaks up on a mage, now firstly I'll have ice shield and mana shield up, second I'll freeze them in place, blink and then nuke accordingly, dead rogue, simple. A Warlock doesn't get teleport until LEVEL 78! By that time he'll have been ganked by hundreds of rogues because of terrible mobility, dots which means he has to outlast enemies in an environment which is never 1 on 1, pitiful self healing, fear which can be 'resisted' (yeah thanks for that) and of course no shield other than 1 which is only marginally useful if you go destruction

Oh and speaking of destruction, incinerate, arguably the most important move in a Destro lok's arsenal, is learnt at lv 64! Thats like Mages learning arcane missiles around the lv 50 mark.

Utility
Again the Mage wins, so from early levels you can teleport freely across azeroth, comparable to warlocks... oh yeah. They never have to buy food again (yeah those reagent bills must sting) and of course the fact that they have moves like the aforementioned blink, invisibility, ice block, the list could go on.

Warlocks are according to warcraftrealms are least played class in the game. Next time you do a Battleground at any level note the warlock pop, I'd say in 70-80 of all my bg's I've been the only 1. Like I said Blizzard knows it, Warlocks are gonna be lethal in Mists, self healing at level 15, improved demons, death coil on a 45 second CD (finally!) a Pala bubble as well no less, Blizzard seemingly know that the advertisement for Warlocks atm is pretty dire compared to Mages, who they will always be judged against.

All this said, I'm still gonna level this warlock and hopefully main it, I know that Warlocks aren't completely gimped and there are times when I think 'yep this is the class I wanna main' but sometimes I really think Blizzard just ignored them. Maybe because the Lok community is so small anyway that they're voice isnt loud enough.

Anyone agree or think that I'm giving warlocks a raw deal?

PvE: Leveling in full heilrooms, being on top or second (after tank) as destro or demo

PvP: Being a glass canon as destro is OK for me. Being a dot bitch as afli is awesome (dying after dotting 5-6 people and resieve 4-5 kills afterwards is awesome. Even 1 bane of doom is enough). And you have Coil from level ~50. And health stones (when glyphed and improved they ggive me ~70% of health) to get rid of annoying rogues.
Ah, i remember 20-24 on WSG, 1 bane of doom = 1 kill. Spread corruption and band of agony and see people dying. Pure awesomness
The only thing i saw in your post is:
I have seen warlocks in BC when sl/sl was OP, then they removed it, and in WotLK they had to go OPed destro to burst shit out of people in 3 GCDs, i wanted to be like them, but leveling was exhausting. Now, when leveling is a piece of cake, i tried to level one and it is boring because mages are improved versions of warlocks in low levels.
OR
I had an awesome PvP alt low level warlock, but now, rogues kill you in 1 ambush (that was since WotLK btw) and i don't know how to prevent them from sneaking on me in stealth or how to use sacrifice shield of my voidwalker. Now i see that only mages can live through ambush (and die after landing of 5C evis) with their mighty shields and freeze rogue because he still low level and has no CoS or Prep and vanish+trinket on CD, and land on him his awesome frostbolt of death.


And warlocks don't need defense against melee. From the begining they was castertanks, so, being vulnurable to melee is OK when you spit on other casters

[Dotbotdotcom]

I hope OP is a troll, didn't read other posts:

1 - PvE: Who gives a fuck if you're doing badly compared to mages in low level? Warlocks in PvE atm are more than fine.

2 - PvP: Warlocks have been OP in every season of arena, especially in cataclysm. Warlock > Mage by far in pvp, Warlock > everything by far in pvp.

[Medivhe]

seriously, if youre so jealous of mages, roll one. They are 2 seperate classes, warlocks are better at certain things, mages at other, like every class. get over it

[EqualWin]

i DIDNT read all you post , but cmon if you check pvp ladders are 70% (OR even more) Warlock/shaman/X warlocks are really good in PVP.

[Gorehowl]

if you arent terrible at the game warlocks are fine.

[Nyaldee]

Agree that locks are fine. Vurnerable to ganks during lvling - yes, almost free hk in 1v1 for most classes - yes. But lvling as warlock is incredibly fast (at least as affliction), in PvP we're in a good place be it 3v3, 5v5 or RBG. When it comes to PVE there're concerns: mages being stronger and easier to play, falling behind all melee dps on heroic gear lvl unless you have legendary staff - but that's blizzard design flaw, not class fault (still can top metters easilly on madness and ship couse of multidotting).

That's just the way it is - we're reliant on assistance in pvp becouse we don't have many active defensive cooldawns. In MoP it's going to change, but i'm already concerned that locks multidot dmg will fall pretty hard becouse of new channeling spell increasing single target dot ticking speed by 100%. I'll be sad if that happens since multidoting to build preassure is locks iconic ability since vanilla

[Elysia]

Posting in a thread just to deem it a "troll thread" or to "rate it" as such has always been against the guidelines just as calling another user a troll is against the guidelines. Doing so will only get yourself in trouble. Most people in this thread seem perfectly capable of discussing the topic without being rude, so if you don't want to participate, please don't post in it.

Also, changed the thread title to something slightly less flame-baity.

[gracfuldeath]

Not gonna lie. I stopped reading when I saw the OP complaining about Warlocks at lvl 35, with no real mention of lvl 85 comparisons beyond looking in the spellbook of when to learn things.

But eventually I came to read most of his/her post. Yes, when it comes to dungeons we suck until the higher level ones. Things die from two melee hits or one mage fireball, and we're just getting to our second dot (well, those leveling their first lock with no idea what they are getting into are. Those that do usually skip dots and go for the filler. Well, unless you're desto. Immo + conflag) So what? Go quest where we can dot 50 things and run around collecting loot without trying. Yea yea the mage freeze in place thing. No one likes leveling anyways.

Your entire PvP argument was based solely on fighting rogues, which no one enjoys. Would you like Fear to never be resisted and with no diminishing returns? I think not. And if mages are so win, why do they keep losing to locks?

I don't know when locks level anything anymore, except for incinerate which I /gasped when told it was like a lvl 70 move, which is dumb and retarded, I'll give you that.

Ok, I'll give it to you that porting places while leveling makes things easier. But after that, mages are stuck like a lock, being everyone's bitch who demand summons and ports. At least for lock's it's a reason to bring us into the raid (that's how I got my 25m raiding spot in my first raiding guild, which gave me the chance to prove I could hold it for more than just summoning). Those puny mage tables? I lol at them. Locks don't need food once they have Soul Harvest. And they never need drinks thanks to life tap. To this day I've still never helped a mage summon one of those things.

Tbh, your entire post consisted mainly of "Mages are awesome because they have: A, B, C,.....Z, AA, BB, ......." and "Locks suck because they can't do all the OOC things mages can do, and they're the least played class which means ofc they suck." What you seem to fail to realize is that for every OOC move you have, that's an extra in combat move we have. Locks are still one of the most complex classes to play and I thoroughly enjoy for that.

Why do I play a lock and won't make a mage? Because I find joy in beating mages in PvE, and loling at mages that think freezing me in place yet staying in casting range is really going to save them. My favorite is their ice block. Gives me plenty of time for to wind up my next combo set of moves. When I go into BGs, I pick out the mages.

[Bilmeister]

The only way a lock is viable in pve and does not get completely destroyed by other classes on dmg is by having an orange item equiped.

Although our other lock in my guild aint in any way a better player than i am, he still does 10-15k more dmg on fights just because of a single item.

get your massive tits out of your faces. locks are shite.

in a proper guild u stand no chance against any melee hunter or mage. the rest is on par with locks. but those are hybrids so they can fuck themselfs. its hard to keep enjoying a class if u just get brought to raids for a 10% spellpowerbuff.

[Bobinahat]

I've gradually come to dislike warlock PvP more and more. I don't deny that they are very viable in high end 3v3 / RBGs, but a good deal of the play style and design I personally dislike. The class seems to be designed, effectively, as a very niche specific support class; this is fine if you happen to find yourself in those specific situations, but outside of them the class feels quite weak. I find it very frustrating to be sporting virtually the best gear available, and still have a very high risk of dying to players of substantially lower skill / gear in small scale PvP. I tend to die simply because I've been killed by (comparatively) massive burst damage before I can really do anything (either from sheer damage, or too many immunities / breaks and control on their part). I've had the additional recent misfortune of needing to rely on 2s for points, and it's horrendous. My partner and I would cheer whenever we faced another team with a warlock; it was an almost guaranteed win, but unfortunately we only fight one warlock team in 2s every two or so weeks. (Granted, 2s are their own black hole, but still frustrating)

Again, to clarify, my position is not that they are non-viable, but that I, personally, do not enjoy some parts of the way that they have been designed and balanced.

I'm also irked by the lack of spec viability, other than affliction. This issue is certainly not unique to warlocks, although I think warlocks have had the longest running issues with it. Barring a few exceptions in past seasons, affliction has really been the only viable PvP spec.

[Zeezus]

The only way a lock is viable in pve and does not get completely destroyed by other classes on dmg is by having an orange item equiped.

Although our other lock in my guild aint in any way a better player than i am, he still does 10-15k more dmg on fights just because of a single item.

The Legendary does not account for 15k worth of performance, 4-5k at best.

Not gonna lie though, I do hate legendarys purely because it makes getting ranked fucking hard :P

[Retror]

So you get infracted for telling the truth? The numbers dont lie, locks are not bad they are not even close to being bad. This OP either hasn't played the game in 2 years or is trolling.

[facerollinbro]

How can you say that locks suck to lvl you just dot dot dot and keep running ive played my warlock since bc and i love it lvling them is a ton of fun 0 down time and tons of survival while lvling. and in pvp there not so bad you can self heal and if you play with a healer your never gonna die you just have to play smart and try to outlast the other team and aply lots of presure with UA.

[gakpad]

The Legendary does not account for 15k worth of performance, 4-5k at best.

Not gonna lie though, I do hate legendarys purely because it makes getting ranked fucking hard :P

hehe it's not even a 2k upgrade for me >_> just makes top ten ranks nearly impossibru

[Stalemate]

Not following, all I'm seeing is comparisons to frost mages.

[meifumado]

Dont know what your talking about, While playing a lock can be a challenge, mastering the class results in one the best classes out there for dps in pve and pvp as well as a awesome playstyle
so what if you do bad dps on trash, its trash!
you prolly need to work out what to do in pvp i would suggest getting a friend with a rogue to dual with