An in-depth Explanation on Ferals

[ace1231337]

Snip

Couldn't have said it better myself. Look OP, I know you're trying to defend your class which you feel is unjustly called OP as hell. Come on though...

If ferals aren't OP they're borderline. Taking into account all other melee this season, ferals need to be brought down a peg or two. Whoever said "NOTHING should be taken away from Ferals. They are a near perfect spec/class. Other classes need to brought in line with Ferals," is blind and obviously plays feral.

Let's compare:
Enh - lol not viable. Okay damage, shitty survivability, buffs are a bag of gimmicks aka totems. Meh mobility that's really only present during Spirit Wolves. Pretty much no defensive cooldowns (lol shamanistic rage...)

Ret - Good burst, good defensives. However, all it takes is ONE button and all that shit goes away. Their mobility is okay if you like spamming cleanse every GCD you have free and want to OOM. No snare. Gap closer sucks shit compared to more than half the other melee. The only thing I will give them is retarded healing burst. But I play ret to DPS not to heal so...

Warrior - Let's not even go here. Mobility is good for all of 10 seconds. Other than that you sit in roots for the entire match. At least ferals can break two of them AND for their entire team if in range. Supbar burst, HORRID CC. Having to blow Intimidating Shout to ensure your Throwdown doesn't miss is dumb as hell. You can't say Cyclone isn't godly compared to the trash warriors have. Using any defensives completely kills your DPS.

DK - Necrotic Strike is godly if you can land it. However I believe you'll find it hard to spam it when you're being trained to shit because you have arguably the shittiest survivability of a melee class. Burst is good if you don't die right away. Bet you're not complaining about Bear Form when you're laughing at DKs getting taken down in a few GCDs. Rogues completely shit all over you. Disarm = GG. Pretty much no CC.

Rogues - Don't count at all. The definition of OP. You're basically almost up there with them but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you lose to them.

Biggest win Ferals have: They can't be disarmed.

I don't know... the more and more I think about it, the less there is to defend ferals. They just do everything too well to be considered balanced.

[iWolfBanei]

Just like to say that I wasn't defending Ferals being 'OP', clearly stating what it was what people were complaining about.

[tinkabela]

just remove instant cast cyclone, and ferals will be balanced

[Illana]

just remove instant cast cyclone, and ferals will be balanced

that's not what's OP about ferals

[NightZero88]

Wow, the amount of moronic people in this thread is astronomical. You people need to learn how to play. Ferals are not OP, it has been shown in multiple other threads so I will not post it again.

As to the people saying OMG FERALS ARE OP MELEE1111, did you stop to realize that there are only four other melee classes? Rogues are superior to druids. Druids are superior to warrior/DK/pally. Some classes are always going to be better than others, it is impossible to make all classes equal unless all classes are given the same skills. You're crying out that the OP is bias towards his own class yet you are doing the exact same thing by saying: Oh well your druid is stronger than my DK so it needs nerfs or I need buffs. Stop being hypocritical. Ferals are not OP and the OP was showing you how to deal with skills that everyone claims are OP but are not.

Bottom line is this, and I said it in the last ferals are OP QQ bitchfest. In the 1800-2200 bracket ferals are good because players are BAD in that bracket. There is a reason there are very few ferals in the 2700+ range because people know how to fight against them and there are FAR better comps to play.

I challange any of you to roll a feral and get to glad/r1 this season right now. You will see it's not that easy and feral is a lot harder to play than you think. It is not an easy class to play well.

Now let's /thread because there is already another feral whine thread that is going on 16 pages and before that fifteen other ones before that all posted by bad people complaining. At least in this thread the OP was trying to HELP you bads learn to deal with ferals skills. And before any of you start while I do have a druid I've never played feral in PvP before, I always played resto so I am not biased in that regard, I just know how my class works and doesn't work.

EDIT: I do so very much look forward however to being able to spec back into disentanglement as a feral come MoP so I can happily feed on your QQ tears about unsnarable ferals.

[tinkabela]

that's not what's OP about ferals

apart from frenzied regen, which is basically an undispellable bubble (which cant be used while stunned or CCd), ferals don't really bring much else that is overpowered (read: overpowered, not just 'above average'), other than instant cyclones

everything else they have just make them a good melee, and all their other abilities can be countered (hex/poly immunity aside)

[kosechi]

As to the people saying OMG FERALS ARE OP MELEE1111, did you stop to realize that there are only four other melee classes? Rogues are superior to druids. Druids are superior to warrior/DK/pally.

heres the root of the problem. ferals ( and rogues) are vastly superior to ret/dk/warrior/enhance. its easier to nerf the two outliers then bring the rest of the pack up to their level.

Bottom line is this, and I said it in the last ferals are OP QQ bitchfest. In the 1800-2200 bracket ferals are good because players are BAD in that bracket. There is a reason there are very few ferals in the 2700+ range because people know how to fight against them and there are FAR better comps to play.

there are even fewer rets/dks/warriors in the 2.7k range then ferals/rogues.

[NightZero88]

heres the root of the problem. ferals ( and rogues) are vastly superior to ret/dk/warrior/enhance. its easier to nerf the two outliers then bring the rest of the pack up to their level.



there are even fewer rets/dks/warriors in the 2.7k range then ferals/rogues.

I agree with both of your points in a manner. First, yes, from a design stand point it would be far easier to nerf the two classes than bring the other 3 up. This is true from the obvious point that 2 is smaller than 3. However, then we come across the issue at hand which is where do they want the classes to be specifically? For example, in my opinion druids are at a good place right now in terms of dealing with everything from other melee to casters and the like. Because of that I feel like rogues should be knocked down a few pegs and the other classes brought up. I think most people will agree that rets are one of the worst pvp melee classes currently so should everyone be brought down to their level? If that is what people want then it's more than just the melee that have to go down, the casters do as well and then it's not so black and white. Bottom line, there are a number of other issues that arise from this because you can't simply balance melee around melee. You also have to factor in melee as compared to casters to get a true balance.

Again you are correct, fewer rets/dks/warriors than rogues and ferals but that is due to the synergy that combos have. Rogues fit into more winning combos than ferals which fit into more combos than the rest. This is not an issue with the feral class however it's an issue with synergy across classes. The typical RMP which has been viable since S1 is not that any of the classes are OP by themselves (not true anymore..mages and rogues ha!) but that they work so well together for a variety of reasons such as no shared dimishing returns, etc. This is the same for Lock+Shammy+X. Unfortunately, it is very hard to make synergy equal across all classes so this will always occur. But again I feel as this has less to do with how strong the class is and more how it works with other classes. Obviously however the stronger your class is the better it will work with other strong classes.

[Shaderas]

I agree with both of your points in a manner. First, yes, from a design stand point it would be far easier to nerf the two classes than bring the other 3 up. This is true from the obvious point that 2 is smaller than 3. However, then we come across the issue at hand which is where do they want the classes to be specifically? For example, in my opinion druids are at a good place right now in terms of dealing with everything from other melee to casters and the like. Because of that I feel like rogues should be knocked down a few pegs and the other classes brought up. I think most people will agree that rets are one of the worst pvp melee classes currently so should everyone be brought down to their level? If that is what people want then it's more than just the melee that have to go down, the casters do as well and then it's not so black and white. Bottom line, there are a number of other issues that arise from this because you can't simply balance melee around melee. You also have to factor in melee as compared to casters to get a true balance.

Again you are correct, fewer rets/dks/warriors than rogues and ferals but that is due to the synergy that combos have. Rogues fit into more winning combos than ferals which fit into more combos than the rest. This is not an issue with the feral class however it's an issue with synergy across classes. The typical RMP which has been viable since S1 is not that any of the classes are OP by themselves (not true anymore..mages and rogues ha!) but that they work so well together for a variety of reasons such as no shared dimishing returns, etc. This is the same for Lock+Shammy+X. Unfortunately, it is very hard to make synergy equal across all classes so this will always occur. But again I feel as this has less to do with how strong the class is and more how it works with other classes. Obviously however the stronger your class is the better it will work with other strong classes.

Honestly, it will most likely be fixed in MoP... Ferals will not be able to go from being a really good tank, to being a really good dps at the same time (by shifting). They'll have to spec one or the other, so they'll be really good at tank, but average dps, or average tank with really good dps.

[NightZero88]

Honestly, it will most likely be fixed in MoP... Ferals will not be able to go from being a really good tank, to being a really good dps at the same time (by shifting). They'll have to spec one or the other, so they'll be really good at tank, but average dps, or average tank with really good dps.

Or a better rogue with vanish and being able to break roots again with an aoe deathgrip and an aoe root.

[Shaderas]

Or a better rogue with vanish and being able to break roots again with an aoe deathgrip and an aoe root.

If they are a "better rogue", then the people who design the classes will have failed. They should have a distinctive feel to them, rather than being a better, worse, or equal version. Lets hope they differentiate the rogue and the feral kitty in a good way while keeping them both viable.

[NightZero88]

If they are a "better rogue", then the people who design the classes will have failed. They should have a distinctive feel to them, rather than being a better, worse, or equal version. Lets hope they differentiate the rogue and the feral kitty in a good way while keeping them both viable.

Sadly I am not sure if this is possible. The clincher between a rogue and a cat was that the cat could go to bear. Switching to caster form was fairly minor and did not occur that often. That being said I'm really not sure what Blizz intends to do with cat in general to make them different from rogues, they already are almost the same. And I really have no faith in Blizz anymore.

[Korgoth]

Seriously wtf is the point of this thread, because it really just seems like you listed how ferals were overpowered in everything then said its because other players dont understand.

We understand feral just fine, we know its overpowered that you move at 130% speed, with 2 root breaks an auto applied slow and an instant cast cyclone. We understand that is overpowered that you click bear form and you get all the benefits of a Warrior going from Arms to Prot instantly. We understand it just fine.

[dotsteiner]

i think feral is in a pretty good spot right now overall; they might be a tiny bit too good against other melee but they are either balanced or maybe slightly weak against the lock/shaman/x you see everywhere.

i really hate that ferals have no kind of cleave whatsoever though; swipe and single target damage are completely unconnected and it makes the spec just not as good as it could be, be it 3's 5's rbgs or pve

[WillFeral]

You forgot to mention we can get cced by 2 extra cc that no other class ca be targeted from, hibernate and scare beast, we might get some cc breakers but there are other ways to get us cced

Shamans ghost wolf form says hi

[Shaderas]

i think feral is in a pretty good spot right now overall; they might be a tiny bit too good against other melee but they are either balanced or maybe slightly weak against the lock/shaman/x you see everywhere.

i really hate that ferals have no kind of cleave whatsoever though; swipe and single target damage are completely unconnected and it makes the spec just not as good as it could be, be it 3's 5's rbgs or pve

Hehe, everyone is weak versus Lock/Shaman/X.... Locks and Shamans are represented in 90% of the high rated 3v3 and 5v5 teams

[Castozor]

I agree with both of your points in a manner. First, yes, from a design stand point it would be far easier to nerf the two classes than bring the other 3 up. This is true from the obvious point that 2 is smaller than 3. However, then we come across the issue at hand which is where do they want the classes to be specifically? For example, in my opinion druids are at a good place right now in terms of dealing with everything from other melee to casters and the like. Because of that I feel like rogues should be knocked down a few pegs and the other classes brought up. I think most people will agree that rets are one of the worst pvp melee classes currently so should everyone be brought down to their level? If that is what people want then it's more than just the melee that have to go down, the casters do as well and then it's not so black and white. Bottom line, there are a number of other issues that arise from this because you can't simply balance melee around melee. You also have to factor in melee as compared to casters to get a true balance.

Again you are correct, fewer rets/dks/warriors than rogues and ferals but that is due to the synergy that combos have. Rogues fit into more winning combos than ferals which fit into more combos than the rest. This is not an issue with the feral class however it's an issue with synergy across classes. The typical RMP which has been viable since S1 is not that any of the classes are OP by themselves (not true anymore..mages and rogues ha!) but that they work so well together for a variety of reasons such as no shared dimishing returns, etc. This is the same for Lock+Shammy+X. Unfortunately, it is very hard to make synergy equal across all classes so this will always occur. But again I feel as this has less to do with how strong the class is and more how it works with other classes. Obviously however the stronger your class is the better it will work with other strong classes.

I like how you continually leave Enhancement shamans out of the equation. Are you used to killing us that easily that you completely forget about us? Also your point would be valid if the 2 outliers, rogues and ferals were balanced. I'm sorry to try and penetrate that thick skull of yours, but both ferals and rogues are op and buffing the other classes to that level will do nothing but break the game even more. Like rogues, ferals got it all really and there is no reason why one class/spec should have enormous defences on top of enormous damage and enormous control. Frost mages, sub rogues and ferals bring all now and better than other classes which are more specialised but still fall behind because they are balanced whereas mages/ferals/rogues are not.
The only thing I can give you is that mages and rogues are worse, but ferals are far from being balanced.

[Prostyle]

Bias is fact that disagrees with your opinion? Sweet.

I'm stating facts about Druid spells and giving examples of how they can be countered. I barely give any opinion in it at all.

Don't put words in my mouth.

You're the one making a thread 'explaining' Ferals while spinning every statement to downplay your abilities/talents, and in most cases making completely incorrect statements about how those abilities/talents work.

I don't need to point this out to you if you have read any of the replies to your post, but yes I think it is very safe to claim that you have a strong bias.

This thread is pointless. It serves no purpose but to make people that don't play Ferals /eyeroll at the fact that you clearly do not have any clue what you are talking about, and creates yet another place where Feral players can mosey on in to give their brilliant input of 'L2P Feral is fine'.

Cheers

[Crushima]

I almost completely agree. I'd hate to see Ferals homogenised into a simple 1-form 3 button class.

There are some minor tweaks here and there to be done, frenzied regen should be toned down, our burst could be toned down. Only being able to use SI in bear form would be a good replacement if they were ever to remove Frenzied Regen.

I think changes could be made, I'd just hate to lose the feel of Ferals like Warriors lost so much going from BC/Wotlk to what they are now. How I miss proper stance dancing :[

Pfffffff.....

If warriors had the tools Feral druids have, you you whine/cry about it all day on the blizzard forums.

Imagine, a warrior who passively applies a slow effect. The warrior can also remove any slows by pressing a button any time he wants. The warrior can also cyclone you instantly, with no way to counter it. Imagine awarrior who when going 1h shield and popping his cooldowns, survives 5 melee on him for seconds.

You can have warrior bladestorm and plate armor, Id swap anyday with you.

When MOP comes, dps ferals will be nerfed into oblivion with the seperate feral tanking tree. You will actually be killable again, and do very low dmg when you go into bearform (no more huge bleeds ticking while you are unkillable).

[Illana]

feral doesn't do as much sustained pressure compared to a warrior since it's energy capped. You are comparing apples and oranges really.

Feral has great burst with berserk and a spike of damage during TF but they cannot put out the continual pressure of 10k+ overpowers and 15k mortal strikes every few seconds combined with the fact that their autoswings hit pretty damn hard too

although I do agree warriors need a passive slow, hamstring should really apply on every successful overpower