Enhance vs rogues

[Mashy767]

Ok. yes this IS a blind and completely biased QQ thread. but i need to get this out of my system.
Just got into PVP in a big way on my enhance shaman. Sitting on 4.3k resi with all the fancy enchants and stuff. largely doing 2's and duels atm. i'm no god
but i can hold my own against most classes. ( now that blood Dks are finally back down with us mortals again)
But then i meet a rogue. In both duels and 2's they wipe the floor with me.
I will pop shammy rage in their opener to mitigate as much as i can ( Assuming they dont open with a 5second silence). but im taking 40-50k in the first
3seconds.
when i pop doggies they instantly Vanish + recoop.
I cant stack a MsW at all against a class with so much dodge which means i have virtually no healing throughput.
Nothing to interrupt and/or ground so my utility is virtually redundant against them
They have shadow-step/sprint so i cant kite them.
they even have a disarm so that when i eventually break out of the stun-locks i cant do enough dmg to bring them past 70%.
They can even sap though vanish. meaning i cant heal mid-fight while they regen.

I know each class has a supposed counter. and maybe this is ours. but having literally nothing to threaten them with just seems wrong.
I know im strong vs frost mages. but they still bring amazing damage/control against ME.
Any advice or anybody else with the same problem.?

[PizzaSHARK]

Just bend over and grab your ankles. It'll make it hurt less.

[Flaks]

Just bend over and grab your ankles. It'll make it hurt less.

-sincerely,
All non-rogue classes

[Solorian750]

Just bend over and grab your ankles. It'll make it hurt less.

i think im in love lmao

[Awfulx]

-sincerely,
All non-rogue classes

hahahaha this, 100%

[Proberly]

Sorry OP but beating any decent rogue as enhance won't be possible unless you're playing enhance at godmode level.

[Tapzer]

If your facing a rogue that has any idea how to play his class. Odds are you wont win unless you get some damn lucky crits/ maelstrom procs. With all our damage dealing abilities having a decent cd (8 seconds+) Not much we can do. If a rogue dodges your stormstrike and lava lash, you can pretty much throw in the towel. Because that could have been a good 1-2 maelstrom stacks which are ideal for self healing.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Tapzer/simple

My enhance. Though im glad to see more people are playing enhance shamans, I remember in 4.1 being the ONLY enhance shaman on my server to pvp.

[Proberly]

If your facing a rogue that has any idea how to play his class. Odds are you wont win unless you get some damn lucky crits/ maelstrom procs. With all our damage dealing abilities having a decent cd (8 seconds+) Not much we can do. If a rogue dodges your stormstrike and lava lash, you can pretty much throw in the towel. Because that could have been a good 1-2 maelstrom stacks which are ideal for self healing.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Tapzer/simple

My enhance. Though im glad to see more people are playing enhance shamans, I remember in 4.1 being the ONLY enhance shaman on my server to pvp.

Idk about OP since he hasn't linked armory, but if you are having huge troubles with dodges/parrys you could up your expertise a bit. 14 is pretty low even for pvp :>

[Zalamander]

I play enchancement in 2v2 with a hunter pal, blitzkrig strategy kinda.
Usualy never had rogue problems tho for most part, at least you get to hit them so I dont understand why its them you complain on, how do you handle a frost mage in 1v1 as enchancement, surely you cant break enough snares to reach them at all?

[Nyaldee]

No chance, simple as that. Rogue can completly counter wolfs, then garote into 5 sec kidney (you trinket or fall too low), gouge, pull energy, hit you few times, blind, restealth, reopen with garotte into kidney, and he still have dismantle, evasion, sd left. Bend over m8, it's like that for everybody exept mages.

[Gregz21]

No chance, simple as that. Rogue can completly counter wolfs, then garote into 5 sec kidney (you trinket or fall too low), gouge, pull energy, hit you few times, blind, restealth, reopen with garotte into kidney, and he still have dismantle, evasion, sd left. Bend over m8, it's like that for everybody exept mages.

except mages and hunters

and since hunters are the only class who can consistently kill mages.... you get the picture

[Reith]

Idk about OP since he hasn't linked armory, but if you are having huge troubles with dodges/parrys you could up your expertise a bit. 14 is pretty low even for pvp :>

You need over 3000 expertise rating to cancel out Rogue dodges... baseline. 601 is the minimum for getting rid of parries though.

EDIT: Actually 601, my bad. Comes out to 20 expertise.

[PizzaSHARK]

except mages and hunters

and since hunters are the only class who can consistently kill mages.... you get the picture

Hunters counter basically every caster don't they?

I know they counter my enhance shammy the way a hammer counters a kneecap.

---------- Post added 2012-02-14 at 07:24 AM ----------

You need over 3000 expertise rating to cancel out Rogue dodges... baseline. 600 is the minimum for getting rid of parries though.

PvP softcap is 20 expertise. I don't know how much rating that is... I guess 600. You can go for more than 20 expertise but you approach rapidly diminishing returns past 20 because no one but plateboys will have more than 5% parry (and the plateboys won't have more than 5% dodge.)

[Itisamuh]

-sincerely,
All non-rogue classes

While I must admit that I chuckled at this, it is simply not true. Rogues are fine, I beat them all the time on all the classes I play, though my warlock definitely loses to them a lot more than not. The only thing I will say about rogues is that you really have to know how to fight them, or you will lose. That hardly makes them overpowered. But yeah, enhance shaman have basically no chance if the rogue has cooldowns.

[Illana]

its like 380 for enh since they get 6 free from unleashed rage

but you "might" kill a rogue if you just kite like a bawss

earthbind totem is freaking awesome against them cause it clears crip and also slows them.

Sham rage the dance since they are on same cd and save trinket for blind, if he get's a free restealth then you're more screwed then you already were

I like to use fire ele totem (i know 10min cd but =S) cause it annoys the shit out of them and if they actually go and take it out it gives you more breathing room.

Remember they can only close gap on you once every 24 seconds and only if they sprint although i would probably save wolves for sprint.

use stoneclaw on every cd and try to only ghw when you kited long enough for wound poison to fall off, 15k GHW makes me sad panda

if you're really in a spot and have no maelstrom pop spiritwalker's and spam yourself with surge.

Once cloak is over then the real fight begins and it's all down to rng and how well you can kite

[Shamygandof]

its like 380 for enh since they get 6 free from unleashed rage

but you "might" kill a rogue if you just kite like a bawss

earthbind totem is freaking awesome against them cause it clears crip and also slows them.

Sham rage the dance since they are on same cd and save trinket for blind, if he get's a free restealth then you're more screwed then you already were

I like to use fire ele totem (i know 10min cd but =S) cause it annoys the shit out of them and if they actually go and take it out it gives you more breathing room.

Remember they can only close gap on you once every 24 seconds and only if they sprint although i would probably save wolves for sprint.

use stoneclaw on every cd and try to only ghw when you kited long enough for wound poison to fall off, 15k GHW makes me sad panda

if you're really in a spot and have no maelstrom pop spiritwalker's and spam yourself with surge.

Once cloak is over then the real fight begins and it's all down to rng and how well you can kite

What is the rogue doing all this time, running around in a circle? Unless the rogue is terrible or you as enh get very lucky, the rogue will win 99% of the time.

[GnomeJodas]

You just need to practice some more against rogues, I'm no way near good, but when rogues try to gank me, or in arenas I survive around 50% of the time, you just need to time your cds.
Your big tools:
stoneclaw.
wolves and Spiritwalkers
That other spell that I always forget its name that allows casting while running.
earthbind totem
sham rage

Remember spiritwalkers makes you inmune to slows and gives you 60% of speed increase.
rogues tend to be bursty, so use sham rage (it can be used while stunned) I tend to wait a gcd or two while stunned and they are on their opening, they cant kill you on the opener, and the strongest part will be when they have combo points on you.
stoneclaw on cooldown, now that you survived the opening you can start hitting back, usually you will get two stacks to full stacks here (remember you get MSW stacks while absorbing damage and while hitting), dont get over enthusiastic with the stacks, though, and you have two options, you can throw an insta hex and heal up with a couple of surges or you can insta GHW.
try and not give him the back, if at this point you are at 50% health you can instead pop wolves, spiritwalker (this will stun him, and you can run at 60% away from him) activate the spell i cant remember the name that allows you to cast while running and heal up with that instant GHW and some surges.

now that you have wolves out you have increased regen, he might go into stealth again, but drop stoneclaw and wait for him, the wolves served the purpose of allowing you to heal up and he has wasted cooldowns trying to burn you down in his first oppener, so he will be less bursty now.

I have never used fire ele totem, searing seems to be better choice to me because of lava lash.

[Mithgroth]

The only thing I will say about rogues is that you really have to know how to fight them, or you will lose. That hardly makes them overpowered.

I really don't know how to prevent dropping to 30% in a garrote & kidney eventhough I have resilience (4k+) and Shamanistic Rage on. Either you explain it to me or that does not hardly make them overpowered.

Not being sarcastic at all.

[Caliph]

While I must admit that I chuckled at this, it is simply not true. Rogues are fine, I beat them all the time on all the classes I play, though my warlock definitely loses to them a lot more than not. The only thing I will say about rogues is that you really have to know how to fight them, or you will lose. That hardly makes them overpowered. But yeah, enhance shaman have basically no chance if the rogue has cooldowns.

you should tell us what classes you beat them on. I'd like to know how your abilities translate to a shadow priest, warrior, shaman, lock, hunter, pally, dk. I can't believe people are still saying rogues are fine. what other class can counter everybody? can defeat everybody? can escape everybody? blood dks is just a specific spec that they have problems with as with frost mages. but i find it hard to believe everybody else can beat them or even has a chance.

if you're beating them you're playing mediocre at best rogues. rogues have far too much in the toolbox. one of the reasons i quit wow, such horrible horrible balance.

[Illana]

What is the rogue doing all this time, running around in a circle? Unless the rogue is terrible or you as enh get very lucky, the rogue will win 99% of the time.

well actually yeah, all a rogue can do after cloak and sprint is run around and throw stuff at you. The trick is to kite around your earthbind so it continually removes slows on you