Ulduar difficulty = why

[Pyromate]

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...signed-ulduar/

I find it weird that this approach which is the best raid instance ever has been cleared off the table. The reason: not enough people experienced it.
(can I add that the people who did not clear it back then, cleared it in Cataclysm with the same epic feeling? a game should be a challenge).

The idea behind triggering a hardmode is that everyone can experience normal modes. The ones who desire a harder version, have to trigger the fight, to led it a different way.
How can this be the reason people did not do Ulduar? Alot of people dont read up on fights or gave it a try themselves and find a strategy (no they wipe and QQ and do something else), and yet Blizzards wants to give them a freeway into raid dungeons. People are lazy, and Blizz, you make them more lazy and eventually everyone is bored like this and will complain.
I mean come on.. there has to be a frigging challenge! and something hard to accomplish for those who put so much effort in playing their characters.

I honestly hope the Ulduar way will be the new way for raiddesign, and not the crappy version we experienced in later Wotlk and Cataclysm.

[Mongoose19]

One day they will realize Ulduar was best raid style gameplay, but it will be the day when subs will drop below 5 mil.

[Lilly32]

From a developer's point of view, it's completely natural that you don't want 99% of people who are playing your game missing out on the current central theme of the game. That's retarded, why would you want to do that? To make some 1% happy? How does that make any sense?
You have to consider: it may not be an issue for yourself to say, oh well, the raid won't go away, I'll see it later when I massively overgear it or when the level cap gets raised ... but you can't sell the game that way to a majority.

Except the Majority of WoW players DONT RAID AT ALL. When they released the stats for people completing LFR it was only like 30%. Thats not counting Alts on the same account so Id say around 20-25% of all accounts participated in LFR. Blizzard needs to stop catering the these people who dont even raid by making raids easier. What the hell is the point in making easy raids if people still dont do them. If the LFR numbers were 60-70% then I would say "OK people are now getting into raiding move forward with LFR" But the numbers werent there. LFR proved that.

Just keep things the way they are Heroics for people who dont wanna raid and raids for people who do wanna raid. But Heroics should only get you into the first tier of raiding. After that you must rely on each tier to move on to the next. Remove this crap where you hit 85, spend 50k on the AH, and jump right into current tier raiding bullshit. Thats whats ruining this game and causing burnout. You remove all the fun when people can just walk up to the AH or run some 5 mans and get gear better than previous raids. People should not be walking around in 278s from the new heroics with ZERO tier 11 raid achievements. If you dont raid you dont need gear. Why is that so hard for people to understand.

[Nagassh]

Ulduar was just a prime example of how a raid should be designed, bosses got harder as the instance went on and instead of needing a whole second mode for people who breezed through the the instance, it just naturally became harder - even without looking at the optional hardmodes (and some of those were easier than yogg and algalon).

Unfortunately blizzard now have a design philosophy where if you don't clear the entire instance, that apparently needs fixing, even on heroic mode.

---------- Post added 2012-02-14 at 09:54 AM ----------

Ulduar was just a prime example of how a raid should be designed, bosses got harder as the instance went on and instead of needing a whole second mode for people who breezed through the the instance, it just naturally became harder - even without looking at the optional hardmodes (and some of those were easier than yogg and algalon).

Unfortunately blizzard now have a design philosophy where if you don't clear the entire instance, that apparently needs fixing, even on heroic mode.

[I-like-chocolate-milk]

Bottom line is , if more see end-game , more will quit the game.
I would have quit until mop after i killed DW , but i got the annual pass for diablo 3 ... seemed a good idea at the moment.
Why quit ?
-you've seen last boss
-the gear you'll get will probably be replaced with greens/blues in mop

If less people see the end-boss , they we'll keep playing ( ?! ). And you dont take time to improve so that you actually kill him , you probably dont deserve to kill him.

Loved ulduar myself , the atmosphere , the gradual difficulty of bosses , etc.

[Stannis]

I think Blizzard may have it wrong and going in the wrong direction. People want challenging content, and we want our realm firsts, us firsts and world firsts to mean something. Sure, no one would turn down free and/or easy loot, but are people REALLY going to quit if the game is actually challenging.

First..Shared lockout...GET RID OF IT!

During WotLK even low populated servers were running Ulduar, Sarth and Maly during ICC. Things are just boring now. The game isn't to me cause I enjoy raiding, but no one see's past content as challenging or worthwhile anymore.


We need quality raids with interesting hardmodes and mechanics.

Give 25m's higher ilvl loot, titles (and remove 10m's), more loot or something. We play the game for max level content and we want lots of it. I want to log on and be hammered with things to do and I want to have to ask myself...where do i start?

I think that with your suggestion there's a good chance that 50% of the playerbase would quit right on the spot.

[MerinPally]

Ulduar was better because instead of having [Heroic] attached to all your loot and flicking a switch, by doing something to make the fight harder you get some different loot. This wouldn't be all that difficult to implement, take DS as an example.

Morchok - Get him to 75% in a certain time period and then he splits into 2, leading the "heroic mode" we have now.
Yorsahj - Do it without killing any oozes.
Zon'ozz - Not so sure here but sure someone could think of it.
Hagara - Same as zon'ozz - not sure, would require normal mode to be harder probably.
Ultraxion - do it without using the crystals.
Blackhorn - If you taunt Goriona in p2, she flies down. Have her fly down and then new abilities come in and thats hardmode.
Spine - unsure, I've not reached this level on heroic.
Madness - unsure, I've not reached this level on heroic.

Flicking a switch to "Heroic" was what hurt most of all.

[Stannis]

Bottom line is , if more see end-game , more will quit the game.

Actually atm far more people quitted during less accessible tiers and only 100k quitted during 4.3

[det]

Ulduar was a good raid. Period. My guild managed all normal modes and 5 hardmodes in 25 man. We got the legendary staff and completeted the Ulduar Drake achievements on 10 man with three teams. We had fun. The design of the place is great. The fights are great.

BUT:
That doesn't change the fact that is was completed by only few guilds when it was current content. (as evident on the frontpage) On these forum however you get the impression that the posters here ALL have completed Ulduar. Not only that - they all are Herald of the Titans and got at least Yogg +1

Bottomline: Do not poll these forums if you want a representative feedback about raid difficulty or what "the community" wants.

[T Man]

When people complain things change.

When people don’t say anything noting happened.

Ulduar was good because it was big. Ulduar had more bosses then t12 and t13 put together. There was a lot to work with. New things and fun things.
People didn’t like the res run back tied up with the wipes.
This raid was something new. Back in the start of Wrath 25man was valued at HM raiding and 10man was normal.
Then HM became doing a boss in a special way.
Now with ICC HM is just flipping a switch and rocking on with HM.

Ulduar had the best of both worlds and is now valued at the best of both worlds.

Blizzard need to go back to more = better. And not less but with more detail.
With over 100 bosses in the game it is going to be hard to make a new encounter that has never before been used.

GL to them in MoP!

[Lolsteak]

Hated the raid, stopped trying on all but one of my characters even then it got bad. The first 20 bosses took to long, car fight was lame after first kill. Just bad.

That's new to me, here i was thinking there was 12 bosses excluding Yogg & Algalon..

[Tesk]

I think the ability to make a normal fight a Hardmode, and then the epicness of the Hardmode (Firefighter!) is what made Ulduar stand out amongst others, but then the fights themselves were still complex and fun on normal

[Lolsteak]

I think Blizzard may have it wrong and going in the wrong direction. People want challenging content, and we want our realm firsts, us firsts and world firsts to mean something. Sure, no one would turn down free and/or easy loot, but are people REALLY going to quit if the game is actually challenging.

First..Shared lockout...GET RID OF IT!

During WotLK even low populated servers were running Ulduar, Sarth and Maly during ICC. Things are just boring now. The game isn't to me cause I enjoy raiding, but no one see's past content as challenging or worthwhile anymore.


We need quality raids with interesting hardmodes and mechanics.

Give 25m's higher ilvl loot, titles (and remove 10m's), more loot or something. We play the game for max level content and we want lots of it. I want to log on and be hammered with things to do and I want to have to ask myself...where do i start?

You don't want interesting hardmodes or mechanics, you just want more loot and titles to be a special little snowflake... sorry to burst your bubble but blizzard will not go back to that

[Carrotpie]

The main reason ulduar was good is because you knew who the hell the bosses where, they all had some sort of background and infitting backpage, i hate cata because raids are full of shit and 1 boss where its all about, who are shannox , 6/8 DS, halfus?

[Ishmad]

Best times for me is Ulduar. Definitely, when my raid group still respected each other. Now it's over, and one reason I don't raid anymore or even play that much.

[Puro]

World of casualcraft, welcome.

Bring back good raids with good story and REMOVE THE GOD DAMN EASYMODE thinking you have when designing raids, stupid stupid people make stupid stupid fights, like the Deathwing fight where you actually NEVER fight Deathwing, isn't that incredible?
We bought the expansion to down Deathwing, and yet we never get to fight Deathwing, I call that an outright exploit.

AQ20, AQ40, MC, Naxx40 (the only REAL Naxxramas), Onyxia (not the retarded level 80 version, but the real Onyxia), BWL and many many more.
Those were good raids, they were hard as F.
Now raids start out easy and become slightly more difficult, then it becomes easy again.
And after all that, they're still going to put up the same buff for Deathwing as in ICC, pathetic.

As if this game wasn't easy enough, they want to make it even easier.

As I said, welcome to World of Casualcraft.
Shit game.

Infracted. Enough game-bashing meant to get a rise out of people

[Cairhiin]

The game should be accessible with challenging hard modes available for those who want to pursue them, which is what we have in DS and probably is what we're going to continue to get in MoP.

Hard modes simply aren't the answer right now as there is very little motivation to grind through the same sub par raid instances with bosses that hit harder, and have more HP. It's been proven time and time again that the current raiding model does not work. I seriously hope Blizzard does come up with something new for MoP.

[Fiddycen]

World of casualcraft, welcome.

Bring back good raids with good story and REMOVE THE GOD DAMN EASYMODE thinking you have when designing raids, stupid stupid people make stupid stupid fights, like the Deathwing fight where you actually NEVER fight Deathwing, isn't that incredible?
We bought the expansion to down Deathwing, and yet we never get to fight Deathwing, I call that an outright exploit.

AQ20, AQ40, MC, Naxx40 (the only REAL Naxxramas), Onyxia (not the retarded level 80 version, but the real Onyxia), BWL and many many more.
Those were good raids, they were hard as F.
Now raids start out easy and become slightly more difficult, then it becomes easy again.
And after all that, they're still going to put up the same buff for Deathwing as in ICC, pathetic.

As if this game wasn't easy enough, they want to make it even easier.

As I said, welcome to World of Casualcraft.
Shit game.

i would call it World of Baddiecraft, casuals are not really bad, because the real casuals know how to play but don't have the time, now Casual is an term used by bads to cover them selves from criticism , they simply go "i have a RL, i am a casual"; in fact they have the time just uses the word Casual as an scapegoat .

Stop bashing the game to upset other posters

[Wikkr]

the reason ulduar was so fondly remembered has nothing to do with the difficulty level. the instance was epic because half the quests in northrend pointed you towards it.

As for all this crap about how blizz should turn their back on casuals and just make 1 tier of raids again so that only the truely hardcore can clear it i just have to laugh. do you even listen to yourself? You expect blizzard as a company to turn its back on 90% of its playerbase because their not lucky/good enough to be in a decent raiding guild?

They learned their lessons from Vanilla where few guilds even saw the end tier raids. We have heroic mode now for our challenges, Normal mode is there for peeps learning. and LFR is for the casuals. Blizz is catering for all.

---------- Post added 2012-02-14 at 11:05 AM ----------

like the Deathwing fight where you actually NEVER fight Deathwing, isn't that incredible?
We bought the expansion to down Deathwing, and yet we never get to fight Deathwing, I call that an outright exploit.

Damn so it wasnt deathwings face we melted after pwning each of his arms/wings/tenticle/things in madness.... he got a body double in to face us did he?

[Puro]

i would call it World of Baddiecraft, casuals are not really bad, because the real casuals know how to play but don't have the time, now Casual is an term used by bads to cover them selves from criticism , they simply go "i have a RL" in fact they have the time but have no clue how to play.

I just have to add that you provided me with the most hilarious reading so far this months xD
What you think is right and what is right are two very different things.

Casuals = people that play on and off when they feel for it, loves getting raiding gear by doing heroics, walking around in their raiding gear they feel so proud of, but in reality they never really earned it, they just spammed random HC, wow big deal.
Bads = people that try hard but get nowhere, usually someone who is incapable to learn his/her class.