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  1. #1021
    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Matter View Post
    I am 51 now with my engineer. I usually use two pistols but don't really use the glue gun so I may switch to Pistol/Shield after looking at some of the recent posts here. I have a different question, though, how do you use the grenade kit on the move? It's really good for blasting down a group from range but the moment there is a lot of movement involved, I am a really lousy player.
    I'm not a fun of grenade gameplay, but just keep your cursor on the enemy use that fast cast ground targeting. I can see both keyboard turning and mouse turning yielding disadvantages here, but all in all still think mouse turning is the best, you could try to turn between throws.

  2. #1022
    Brewmaster Grantji's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by parcus View Post
    I'm not a fun of grenade gameplay, but just keep your cursor on the enemy use that fast cast ground targeting. I can see both keyboard turning and mouse turning yielding disadvantages here, but all in all still think mouse turning is the best, you could try to turn between throws.
    the grenades land where the cursor is pointed when you throw them (... push the button), if the enemy is moving you might miss him.

  3. #1023
    Quote Originally Posted by Grantji View Post
    the grenades land where the cursor is pointed when you throw them (... push the button), if the enemy is moving you might miss him.
    Time to learn how to "lead on".

  4. #1024
    Quote Originally Posted by parcus View Post
    I'm not a fun of grenade gameplay, but just keep your cursor on the enemy use that fast cast ground targeting. I can see both keyboard turning and mouse turning yielding disadvantages here, but all in all still think mouse turning is the best, you could try to turn between throws.
    Thanks, that's what I have been doing but I am not dexterous enough to keyboard move, position the mouse and click 1-5 at the same time. I can do it but it's awkward at best.

  5. #1025
    Bloodsail Admiral Riavan's Avatar
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    Grenading is awkward, u get used to it though. KEYBOARD TURNING FTW.

  6. #1026
    Speaking of grenades, I was wondering if having a mouse like the Razer naga might make it a little less awkward. I really like grenades and I was going to get a naga anyways, but then I thought about it and it would make it easier to keyboard strafe/turn while shooting off grenades with the mouse buttons... maybe. I'm not sure. Any opinions?

  7. #1027
    Bloodsail Admiral Riavan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kickinwing View Post
    Speaking of grenades, I was wondering if having a mouse like the Razer naga might make it a little less awkward. I really like grenades and I was going to get a naga anyways, but then I thought about it and it would make it easier to keyboard strafe/turn while shooting off grenades with the mouse buttons... maybe. I'm not sure. Any opinions?
    Nah, it wouldn't make any difference.
    It's got nothing to do with the ammount of buttons, its that you control with your mouse the aoe placement of the grenades so you cant use the mouse to move your character and instead have to use the keyboard to turn.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-08 at 10:31 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by renegadeimp View Post
    Time to learn how to "lead on".
    Tiz terrible sometimes having the australian lag.

  8. #1028
    Quote Originally Posted by Kickinwing View Post
    Speaking of grenades, I was wondering if having a mouse like the Razer naga might make it a little less awkward. I really like grenades and I was going to get a naga anyways, but then I thought about it and it would make it easier to keyboard strafe/turn while shooting off grenades with the mouse buttons... maybe. I'm not sure. Any opinions?
    Reason I want to play engineer = grenades

    Reason why I don't play engineer = keyboard turning

    I can't do it man I CAN'T DO IT.

  9. #1029
    Quote Originally Posted by Riavan View Post
    Nah, it wouldn't make any difference.
    It's got nothing to do with the ammount of buttons, its that you control with your mouse the aoe placement of the grenades so you cant use the mouse to move your character and instead have to use the keyboard to turn.[COLOR="red"]
    I knew that, what I meant was it would be easier to keyboard turn at least while throwing them because you're not trying to turn + hitting 1-5 at the same time, since you would (ideally) bind the skills to the mouse. I thought that would at least make it a little less awkward aiming-wise, but I do hope they do something about it, as it almost feels like punishment trying to throw grenades on the move, but I don't know what Anet could do to make it less awkward outside of removing the ground-targeting altogether, which kind of defeats the point I suppose.

    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Reason I want to play engineer = grenades

    Reason why I don't play engineer = keyboard turning

    I can't do it man I CAN'T DO IT.
    Pretty much this. I really love grenades but it's so ... it feels so wrong :/

  10. #1030
    Grenade 1 and 2 shouldn't even be ground targeted. Should be homing aoe.

  11. #1031
    I am Murloc! Xuvial's Avatar
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    Agreed, an auto-attack style ability (or super short cooldown) like Grenade 1/2 shouldn't require freaking manual targeting for every shot, it's nothing short of a pain.
    If you have nothing targeted the it should bring up the targeting reticule, if you have a target selected then it should attempt to hurl it straight at them (standard projectile attack).
    The rest of the greandes (poison/smoke/ice) are fine with manual targeting.

    It's the only reason I don't use nade kit, colossal button/click-mash.
    Last edited by Xuvial; 2012-10-08 at 01:55 AM.

  12. #1032
    Bloodsail Admiral Riavan's Avatar
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    Alternatively, 1 could be an on/off key, so it consistant spams it till u push it again.

    I'm kind of curious though, are grenades overpowered? They certainly seem to do more damage than my rifle, even to single targets. I don't know if arenanet will let us auto-attack with them and still keep the damage as high as it is.

    And you dont actually need to click, thank god.

  13. #1033
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Grenade 1 and 2 shouldn't even be ground targeted. Should be homing aoe.
    The moment you give nades homing is the moment you break the game. At decent gear levels 2.5k auto attacks (3 nades combined) is common, now imagine that being spammed and outside of dodging unavoidable, you would literally become instant godmode.

    Just look at underwater combat where nades are homing (to an extent), engineers are verging on OP.

    Nade kit is just a case of player skill being rewarded. If you can manage the targeting and get the majority of your nades to land you are rewarded with arguably some on the best basic attack dmg in the game, but if you can't land them then you miss out.

    Nades are fine as they are, yes they can be a bit awkward (literally have to have fast cast ground targeting on) but they are designed to be situational.

  14. #1034
    Quote Originally Posted by Habbage View Post
    The moment you give nades homing is the moment you break the game. At decent gear levels 2.5k auto attacks (3 nades combined) is common, now imagine that being spammed and outside of dodging unavoidable, you would literally become instant godmode.

    Just look at underwater combat where nades are homing (to an extent), engineers are verging on OP.

    Nade kit is just a case of player skill being rewarded. If you can manage the targeting and get the majority of your nades to land you are rewarded with arguably some on the best basic attack dmg in the game, but if you can't land them then you miss out.

    Nades are fine as they are, yes they can be a bit awkward (literally have to have fast cast ground targeting on) but they are designed to be situational.
    The reason why their damage is so high is because of the awkward way to use them.

    In other words its a band aid fix. It should't be high risk high reward when the high risk if your death.

  15. #1035
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    The reason why their damage is so high is because of the awkward way to use them.

    In other words its a band aid fix. It should't be high risk high reward when the high risk if your death.
    No the reason there dmg is so high is because they can be difficult to land consistently due to there long travel time, the risk reward part is that you can plink away with your rifle out and do ok dmg that is pretty much guaranteed or you can swap to your nades and attempt to land a cluster for superior numbers or miss entirely.

    And as for your comment about risking death well I guess you missed the whole 1200 range they have then. If your standing in melee spamming nades around then ofc you are going to die, hence my situational comment.

  16. #1036
    Quote Originally Posted by Habbage View Post
    No the reason there dmg is so high is because they can be difficult to land consistently due to there long travel time, the risk reward part is that you can plink away with your rifle out and do ok dmg that is pretty much guaranteed or you can swap to your nades and attempt to land a cluster for superior numbers or miss entirely.

    And as for your comment about risking death well I guess you missed the whole 1200 range they have then. If your standing in melee spamming nades around then ofc you are going to die, hence my situational comment.
    1200 range can be closed pretty quickly by anything, dont overexagerate it.

    So now its damage is high because it a) has a long travel time b) is ground targeted and c) awkward to use.

    so yea bandaid fix. Your main argument about attack 1 and 2 being auto target is too much damage. You don't have much of a point.

  17. #1037
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    1200 range can be closed pretty quickly by anything, dont overexagerate it.

    So now its damage is high because it a) has a long travel time b) is ground targeted and c) awkward to use.

    so yea bandaid fix. Your main argument about attack 1 and 2 being auto target is too much damage. You don't have much of a point.
    Im sorry but you've lost me.

    My argument about the nade basic attack not being auto targeting (homing) is indeed that they do to much dmg to be a spammable guaranteed hit. I'd say that is a pretty valid point tbh. If you want to knock the dmg down to be consistent with other auto attacks then make them homing by all means but in there current guise they are simply too powerful to be an autocast autohit ability.

    1200 range will be closed quickly if you stand still and don't react but that is besides the point. Again if your standing still spamming nades (outside of wvw sieges) - your gonna have a bad time. If you sit in nade kit whilst trying to deal with melee - your gonna have a bad time. If you try and nade a ranger (any ranged tbh) to death from distance - you are gonna have a bad time. Nades are situational heavy hitters/condi appliers. What more is there to add? Yes using them on the move can be a bit awkward but that isn't grounds to make them a homing attack.

  18. #1038
    A trick in case anyone didn't know is that you can center the explosions around you by just using the keyboard and tapping the numbers twice. You need to pull the mouse off the visual area. you could do the same by just using the keyboard to move and turn and then double clicking on the 1-5 actions as required. It helps if you are in the middle of the mobs.

  19. #1039
    Bloodsail Admiral Riavan's Avatar
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    Yeah, I generally, when not in dungeons/pvp pretty much melee with grenades, lol.

  20. #1040
    Pit Lord BoomChickn's Avatar
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    About grenade engineers, after playing one quite often in spvp, the most useful thing you bring is area denial and freezing on top of having a potentially very durable build for the damage it puts out. Using them in melee can be quite viable as long as you make sure to dodge the big hitters, melee don't like chasing you because you can constantly blast them even while running. I usually play with soldier's amulet for power, vitality, and toughness, which leaves me at 23k or so health, 2000 toughness, and 2300 power. A tough build that can put out really nice damage between high power and vulnerability stacking.

    As for my weapon set, I take pistol/shield to deal with ranged. The reflect and area blind/confusion is wonderful. And the charged shield can ruin a glass cannon.

    Overall a tough build that can eat hits and put up a lot of chilling, taking the rune of ice and short fuse you can get up to 9 seconds of area chill out of every 16 second cooldown.
    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Ford
    Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably why few engage in it.
    This explains a lot.

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