Poll: Do you approve of the 10/25 Shared lockout/diffculty Now

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  1. #1

    Do you approve of the 10/25 Shared lockout/difficulty now?

    **This isn't an argument about whether or not 10/25 are balanced, just a conceptual question

    When Blizz announced they were merging 10/25 man raid lockouts/difficulties, I was a bit sad. I was going to miss having 2 raid lock outs per week, 2 VoA's, etc. Now that I look back, I actually like it a lot now. Just curious, do you guys approve of the change now?

  2. #2
    Brewmaster Bassch's Avatar
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    I don't really mind the current system they have, but I preferred the different lock outs by far. I liked doing 25man GDKP for gold, and 10mans with my guild :3

  3. #3
    I did like doing 25 man pugs after my guilds 10 man

  4. #4
    I'm a fan of the shared lockout - already raiding 5 days a week when we're progressing. Feeling obligated to raid 10's for extra loot / points during the weekend was not something I enjoyed. Occasionally it could be fun, sure, but most of the time it was just a burden.

  5. #5
    Deleted
    Yeah, although I think we'd be better off leaving the shared achievements in the past. it would be better to have different rankings/achievements for 10 & 25 man.

    Actually the best thing would be to scrap both of them and just make it ~15man.

  6. #6
    I'm fine with the shared lockout, but I am a staunch believer that achievements, or at the very least, the FoS realm first achievements should have been kept separate. Without actually launching into a totally unwanted discussion about difficulties, fact is that there's just too many factors to reasonably make things totally equal in difficulty, and I think that that alone is a perfectly decent reason to keep the realm first FoS separate. After all, if they're a FoS, people aren't even 'missing out' on achievement points then.

    PS: Just reiterating that I really could not care less about difficulty differences and this post should NOT be used as a jumping off point for people trying to claim that one is superior over the other.

  7. #7
    Like I said in another thread as long as there are 2 raid sizes treated as equals, there will be countless 10v25 debates, acqusations of the other doing the "easy" hardmode to achieve server first goals, ect. Having 1 raid size or sharing lockouts again will be the way to go. I knew when they announced this in Wrath I knew Blizzard was going to be in trouble, and sure enough its caused nothing but headaches in the raiding scene.

  8. #8
    The Patient
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    For me, I hate the new lock out system. I play the game to raid, I like running 25's with my guild, and then after grabbing a few buddies and pugging a 10 man.

  9. #9
    I am Murloc! Tomana's Avatar
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    I think that the lockouts should not be shared, however, in order to avoid LK scenario all over again, there should be some kind of loot limitation mechanic so that raid guilds don't feel the need to run the other instance every week.

    (One solution could be to limit the loot obtained - e.g. you can only get loot from one boss per week regardless of size. But I'm not entirely happy with that solution).

  10. #10
    I'm fine with the two being treated equal, but there should be an indication ingame whether someone is doing the content on 10 and 25. There is nothing like that currently so we are almost forced into 10v25. They're treated as separate progression paths only on external sources such as wowprogress. If there was a difference, people wouldn't have to ask themselves "man, can do we something about 25 clearing this so much easier" or "10-man guilds are just breezing through this boss... should be kill it on 10?".

    I have further expanded my thoughts here: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3371657565

  11. #11
    I think the shared lockout is ok, since feeling like you would need to run both every week would in fact suck.

    What I don't like is the whole you can run any size for normal modes, but do anything on heroic and you get locked out for that size on heroic.

    I raid 25 man. We do hard modes. We don't always have people willing to keep going later in the week. If you kill say the first boss/bosses on hard, you can't keep pushing on hard as a 10 man later in the week. Drama.

    I get the guild drama from guilds that would want to dismantle to kill on 10man, however from my experience, it just causes more issues as guilds stop wanting to kill a few bosses on 25 man because they know that later in the week it will bite them in the ass.

  12. #12
    I like the shared lockout as long as they are insistent on having 2 raid sizes. Ideally I would like to see them pick one raid size and go with it, doesn't really matter to me if its 10, 25 or even 15, just pick one. A raid should be designed specifically for one size group instead of this weird tuning of mechanics in order to balance something that is impossible to balance.

    A a side note something I would like to see is a separate lockout for heroics. That way a raid group could progress through heroics as well as clear the normal mode lockout. This would serve to make heroic raiding more progression oriented instead of skipping ahead to the easiest heroic fight by killing the previous bosses on normal.

  13. #13
    They SHOULD be seperate. The whole "I feel like have to run both" is BS. Keep the VP cap the same.....if you want to run both you can. If you don't, that's fine too. If you feel like you HAVE to do something, than it's a chore and you should just quit.

  14. #14
    The Lightbringer Christan's Avatar
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    i agree with the 10-25 lockout, not the heroic.

    2 heroic groups, mix and match because people couldn't log in, they can not continue.

    i am in a guild that struggles to get 25 people on, so we do two 10's pretty often...

    also ran into the situation where we'd had 1 heroic group(we didnt want the previous thing to happen) but we split for heroic ult tries,
    only 1 group could switch it to heroic. other group - nope, same raid id apparently...

    it just blows not being able to progress at an even halfway reasonable rate because we rarely have all 25 on, getting saved to the same lockout, means we can't make two 10's the next day and still do heroic tries... it...just...sucks.
    Still I cry, tears like pouring rain, Innocent is my lurid pain.

  15. #15
    I've never agreed with it and have said so on numerous occasions. I've heard all of the arguments in favor of shared lockouts, but in the end, it took away and option for me. I liked being able to run whatever run the raid that wasn't the one my guild was progressing in. Even moreso now that there really isn't much for me to do. My guild got to 7/8 FL normal and bolted for DS, which I'm not interested in, at all.

    All that said, it seems highly unlikely it will ever change back to the old way. If for no other reason, it makes it a bit easier on Blizzard. They don't have to design two sets of gear and they don't have to try to balance around people getting more geared up by being able to run the same content at a different size.

    As far as heroics go, I'd like to see them go back to the idea of hard mode bosses instead of having to clear the normal version before being able to do any heroic content. It was nice in say, Ulduar, when you've beating the first 4 bosses a zillion times while progressing to be able to mix in hard modes for those while still progression in normal mode for later bosses.
    Last edited by Lord Blackmore; 2012-02-14 at 09:03 PM.
    Stating an opinion as fact does not make it fact. Opinions are not fact. So don't be stupid and make a fool of yourself by trying to pass off your opinion as fact.

  16. #16
    The way ICC and Ulduar did it was fine. Two raid sizes, two difficulties, two sets of achievements and gear. Lots of stuff for us hardcores to do so we don't get bored, lots of stuff for casuals to do, content for everyone.

    The only bad thing about ICC was how long it was available. I haven't had so little content available to me in this game as I do now. My guild has cleared 8/8H in two months and we're now bored and have nothing to do other than sell mounts and level up alts, so it's unsurprising that guilds are collapsing and people leave for other games or unsub until mists.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Knownix View Post
    **This isn't an argument about whether or not 10/25 are balanced, just a conceptual question

    When Blizz announced they were merging 10/25 man raid lockouts/difficulties, I was a bit sad. I was going to miss having 2 raid lock outs per week, 2 VoA's, etc. Now that I look back, I actually like it a lot now. Just curious, do you guys approve of the change now?
    Personally I feel the lockouts should be different. They limited the ability to do both which actually hurt our guild and I believe PUGS
    "Peace is a lie"

  18. #18
    Deleted
    By sharing locks / difficulty (that holds more water than niagara falls) blizzard did the single most idiotic action they could have come up with.

    How stupid it was is proven by the flip flop policy of introducing LFR with different lock!

    They killed 25s
    They kept content small in number of bosses because they started waisting resources on balancing
    They killed pugs
    They killed wraths easy mode (10 normals) that was fun only to bring it back with stupid LFR that is the meeting point of the creeps/asocials of this game griefing the rest.

    Overall they made the end game less accessible and more flat, after making in previous expansion ALL the other aspects of the game flat-endless grind, only to make raids more accesible!

    One policy contradicting the other, resulting to
    Deterioration of the community
    Millions of lost subs.

    Never aproved this abomination, never will.

  19. #19
    Hate the shared lockout. My 10s were my drinking/have fun on the weekend raid.. and 25s were guild progression.. Now... I do LFR and that is it. No normal or fun raiding for me anymore.

  20. #20
    I am fine with the shared lock out. As a hardcore raider I would hate 10/25 man to have separate lockout if they kept the model of 10 mans dropping the same quality gear, since then I would be required to run 10 mans in addition to 25mans. The only thing I wish they would separate is the achievements.

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