Has LFR done more harm than good?

[oplawlz]

The biggest problem with lfr (imo of course) is that they made it necessary for real raiders to run it. It's a ridiculously easy encounter which should be set aside for ridiculously "challenged" players, and not something required for people who know not to stand in fire just to get their set bonus. Take the tier loot out, the ilvl is fine but make it all non set. That way the players that way outgear it aren't forced to deal with people who barely meet the reqs to get in, and vice-verse.

[Cute Chen]

LFR is breeding a new generation of talentless, mindless one-shot-kill-or-go-home raiders.

[Nephlim]

I'm sorry but anyone saying lfr is a good stepping stone to get into normals is either insane or clueless. Prime example, on Blackhorn in Normal and Heroic the object of the entire encounter is to stack an the missles inc., on lfr the object is to avoid it. It doesn't train them for anything at all. Litterally at all.

[Ellach]

LFR makes bad habits and gives the lesser player a sense of entitlement. Only good thing LFR did was making gearing alts easy.

[SamR]

LFR is breeding a new generation of talentless, mindless one-shot-kill-or-go-home raiders.

In my experience, the people most likely to ragequit after a wipe are the raid geared elitists who usually mention something about "fail" and "baddies" before they leave in a huff. Oh, and there's a high chance they'll post meters before they leave.

Was it this thread or another LFR-bashing thread where some elite raider was complaining about how his crappy LFR group wiped 3 times on a boss. 3 times!!

---------- Post added 2012-02-17 at 12:43 AM ----------

I'm sorry but anyone saying lfr is a good stepping stone to get into normals is either insane or clueless. Prime example, on Blackhorn in Normal and Heroic the object of the entire encounter is to stack an the missles inc., on lfr the object is to avoid it. It doesn't train them for anything at all. Litterally at all.

The object of LFR Blackhorn is the same. It's just that the small missles don't do any damage to the ship so it's easier to just avoid them. But if enough people don't gather on large missles, you will not beat the boss.

[Lucarocks92]

how can anyone get better when everything is handed out to them on a silver platter u can be shit at this game and thats ok because blizz love ur money, there is no reason to progress anymore LFR gives u everything u need. GG blizz GG

[Kevyne-Shandris]

how can anyone get better when everything is handed out to them on a silver platter

I'd say half of those with such attitudes were carried through.

It was evident with Ruby Sanctum when they kept dying on the cutters, something overgearing couldn't overcompensate.

Can't wait for the dungeon challenge modes. Seperate the men from the boys (and hope the date of the challenge completion is in big bold numerals, and a special mark if done in LFG [much harder than guildies carrying guildies through, too]).

---------- Post added 2012-02-17 at 05:00 AM ----------

Was it this thread or another LFR-bashing thread where some elite raider was complaining about how his crappy LFR group wiped 3 times on a boss. 3 times!!

lololol

I'm glad that you'd think I'm an elite raider, SamR. But hate to break your bubble, I'm totally casual...and the raid died 3x on the first boss in 3 back-to-back LFR raids as they hit the ENRAGE timer with the top DPS being 29k.

They couldn't down the first boss, there's no way they would've survived Deathwing -- us healers even did a whopping 151k (HM level) HPS -- to try to carry them through, but you can't with an ENRAGE timer.

[Deleted]

LFR didn't change anything, it just made it obvious that people in general seriously fucking suck. There's also no way in hell that anyone can teach people how to play or how to raid when they fail in LFR which is another thing that was made obvious.

[esmifra]

LFR is fine and doesn´t need to be looked at.

It served its purpose, now everybody can see content and pretty much raid whenever they want. Also, I don´t take your point in saying it doesn´t prepare people to normal mode... Before LFR, there was NOTHING that could prepare you to raid, but to raid itself... LFR, if anything, gives at least an idea of how the real fight is gonna be like; I also found it easier to explain the fight to newcomers when comparing the mechanics to the LFR version.

And lastly, LFR stopped the bleeding of subs... With the coming of SWTOR, you could expect an earthquake in the number of subs, but the decrease was minimal. Expect more easy content in the future; the days of hard WOW are over.

Finally some one that gets it. LFR is about broadening choices when before there was none. You don't like it don't play it, your old options are still there untouched and as good as they have ever been.

LFG tool would be flawless - if there was actual consequences for bad behavior and cross-server chat and friends list to strength community and encourage socialization.

Totally agree, i do to believe this is one of the main reasons why the social aspect of the game has gone a little downhill.

LFR didn't change anything, it just made it obvious that people in general seriously fucking suck.

I bet you feel you're so awesome know right? If you need to brag or bashing others over a game that does not make you very smart or successfully in real life.

If the majority suck they suck, you don't interact with them in reg/heroics so what is your problem?

[Bloatedhouse]

I can honestly NOT see how LFR ruined anything ?
It's an opportunity for non-raiding players to see the content.
People can get some "okay" gear.
If you don't like it, don't use it, it's really simple.
But of course, some people will always hate, when others get the opportunity to gear up cause then they're not as awesome anymore..

[Phlegethon]

I'll agree with you here OP, It really does need to be looked at I mean really you can Ignore most of the mechanics in LFR. That doesn't teach anyone to raid but ignore mechanics.

An example Ultraixion's thing should of been 1 shot. It ISN'T hard to press a button right... right?

No It actually is hard; Hell even semi-hc people have trouble pressing it but that's another story.

The ball upon Warlord Zon'ozz automatically bounces itself for you -.- Really? It's a straight tank and spank. I can name more examples but I'm just lazy atm

Clearly you don't get the Ultraxion mechanic either...

---------- Post added 2012-02-17 at 11:09 AM ----------

Deathwing is one of the fights that only had numbers changed. The fight sucks on LFR, it sucks on Normal Mode just as much. I feel like shit knowing I waited a year to kill.... his limbs? Never once seeing his face out of both encounters?

They need to make the mechanics do the same thing. Just not as much damage going out for them. Stuff like Ice Wall should still one shot you, but stuff like Yorsah'j and Zon'ozz didn't need their mechanics completely butchered.

I think it did a lot more good than bad.

Last part you are attacking his left jaw... That's part of his face right?

[Deleted]

I bet you feel you're so awesome know right? If you need to brag or bashing others over a game that does not make you very smart or successfully in real life.

If the majority suck they suck, you don't interact with them in reg/heroics so what is your problem?

So what you're saying is that you know they suck but I'm not allowed to say it?

[esmifra]

What I'm saying is that you didn't contributed nothing to the discussion and only said that.
So what was the reason to post one line bashing other players if not to feel superior to them?
Let them be bad (if they are) in their little corner, as long as they enjoy themselves. No need to bash anyone.

If you are super uber you don't need LFR.

Like i said before and you quoted:

I bet you feel you're so awesome know right? If you need to brag or bashing others over a game that does not make you very smart or successfully in real life.
If the majority suck they suck, you don't interact with them in reg/heroics so what is your problem?

[Aquamonkey]

LFR has done a great deal of harm. All the energy spent by people crying about LFR could have gone to developing space exploration or curing diseases. I don't mean that the people QQ'ing would have done those productive things. I mean the electricity, food, water, and air could have gone to more productive pursuits.

[Mexa]

I don't exactly see a downside to more casual or less dedicated raiders having the opportunity to learn content, and possibly even get into "proper" raiding, seems like it's win/win, you get another to fill out your roster, and they get to raid.

its too easy that the only problem with it. I dont mind that casuals get to see what the content looks like, but i dont want raidleaders telling members to do LFR to learn tactics.

[esmifra]

its too easy that the only problem with it. I dont mind that casuals get to see what the content looks like, but i dont want raidleaders telling members to do LFR to learn tactics.

That is a "raid leader" issue not a LFR issue. LFR is not to learn tactics is for players to experience content that they would otherwise not be able to.

[Crashdummy]

LFR is perfect as it is.

LFR IS NOT THERE TO TRAIN PEOPLE TO NORMALS.

LFR is there for people that cant have a schedule to raid either because that person doesnt have fixed job times or because that person can only connect in weird times. And for the ones that just want some fun without much thinking.

[Chrno]

There should've been an option back at vanilla when you selected a server where they asked

Select your game difficulty:
Easy - Medium - Hardmode

Resulting in just 1 difficuly per realm = problem solved

[Okacz]

The only real reason LFR is a failure are social aspects. People in guild raids know each other, don't bitch around, even they pass on loot they could use, when somebody needs it more. Raids are acutally social meetings in virtual world.

Who are those people in LFR pugs? I dont care about them. No one does. They either never say a word, or it woule be better if they havent said it. They need tier pieces when they have normal ones, because it would look better on their transmog. In other player they don't see a person, just a lower chance to roll on items.

The reason is simple. LFR is easy. Extremly easy. Most fights can be completed by a fine set of 15 ppl. Healers and dpses feel they aren't needed there at all, so they can afk a bit. Griefing about gear is also started by this - this gear is threated as worthless, as it was so easy to obtain it. Therefore, pressing need button is way easier. Who cares, its just LFR gear. He didnt win it now, he is going to win it next time.

LFR is a flawed system because of its very idea. It IS NOT POSSIBLE to create a system, where all 25 players would cooperate on highest possible level, respect each other and care about encounter tactics. But LFR is not considered a fail by Blizzard and some players. Why? Because they finally got their 4pc. And DW weapons. The satisfaction of it is almost 0, but at least they did.

[Lord Blackmore]

It's a double edged sword for me. On one hand, I love the convenience of being able to run whenever I want to run. I've always hated having to adhere to a specific schedule and time committment for gaming. But I did that, because I wanted to see and beat raid content. In other words, the challenges presented in raiding were not the main goal for me, but a means to an end.

On the other hand, LFR has stripped any desire I have to run DS again. I fully admit this was my own fault for running in LFR. But in my own defense, I didn't quite realize it would have this drastic effect on my desire to run DS outside of LFR (I don't run it anymore at all, now). I haven't lost my desire to raid, since I'd still like to finish FL, but almost as soon as DS was released, my guild abandoned FL for DS (like so many guilds do). If we were still running
FL (at least on occasion), I'd definitely do that.

So I'm basically on the fence regarding LFR. Going forward, I hope that Blizzard does something that makes LFR a fun alternative, while at the same time ensuring that there are strong incentives for running normal or heroic mode raids. I have no idea what that would entail.