MoP Talent Calc update for Rogues!

[Deleted]

Tankrogue any1? With feint no cd and 30 % dmg reduce to all? +.+

[Deleted]

Tankrogue any1? With feint no cd and 30 % dmg reduce to all? +.+

Still no threat generation though.

[Deleted]

am i the only one seeing the "big" nerfs they put on us?

[Deleted]

am i the only one seeing the "big" nerfs they put on us?

Was just about to say that, a list of nerfs and main gauche especially? Like that mastery isn't horrible enough as it is.

Seriously, they haven't listened, more white damage since basically every ability has had damage nerfedand i dont see the slight energy reductions helping, if anything it's just going to cause more energy capping.

Honestly, expected more whining when I came here...

[Stuffs]

Was just about to say that, a list of nerfs and main gauche especially? Like that mastery isn't horrible enough as it is.

Seriously, they haven't listened, more white damage since basically every ability has had damage nerfedand i dont see the slight energy reductions helping, if anything it's just going to cause more energy capping.

Honestly, expected more whining when I came here...

They modified the way the weapon %s work, they actually hit just as hard, the % coefficient just appears lower on tooltips in general.

[Shinryu]

Besides, I know a lot of us would like to probably break out of the combat slump we've been in since FL, I'll definitely be giving mut another shot once mop hits. Maybe even sub now since energetic gain will be tied to snd over recup.

[jtstormrage]

Anticipation for Sub. Will work well with HAT.

My dilemma is whether to take Leeching Poison or Elusiveness in PVE?

Also, Shadowstep or Preparation? I suppose it will depend on the fight.

[Deleted]

Anticipation for Sub. Will work well with HAT.

My dilemma is whether to take Leeching Poison or Elusiveness in PVE?

Also, Shadowstep or Preparation? I suppose it will depend on the fight.

For PvE i think preparation is outstanding with 2 vanishes = more FW, and since shadowstep no longer increases damage of ambush it's pretty settled

[Stuffs]

Anticipation for Sub. Will work well with HAT.

My dilemma is whether to take Leeching Poison or Elusiveness in PVE?

Also, Shadowstep or Preparation? I suppose it will depend on the fight.

Depends on amount of movement. If there are snares for instance, Burst of Speed will probably be better. Patchwerk, probably prep just for free vanish. Sstep will also be potent as well, the difference between BoS and Prep will depend per fight probably.

[Coldkil]

Shruikans, of DOOM, so called "shrooms"

BAHAHAHAHAHA +1 interwebz

---------- Post added 2012-02-16 at 12:54 PM ----------

some copypasta from the sticky by myself

t1 - Subterfuge means 3 opener in a row + 3 more seconds of overkill for Assa + 3 more seconds of MoS for sublety; also vanish would become a little burst damage cd for combat too (vanish -> 3x ambush)
t2 - deadly throw can be of use; ranged interrupt + damage in flying phases
t3 - cheat death doesn't work for some mechanics (like ultraxion big nuke), while leeching poison is a passive auto heal; your healers will be happier with them, anyway cheat death has still some uses
t4 - shadowstep is good for mobility, preparation is good for an additional vanish (assa = overkill, sub = MoS+find weakness, and subterfuge to top them)
t5 - here i agree with you, totally pvp oriented, maybe stunning poison is cool for leveling (need to know if it works with fok :P)
t6 - shuriken for "ranged" fights, versatility for heavy-switching fights (like yor'shaji), anticipation is really, really strong. All of them have their uses so i think we will be switching between them frequently.

not entering at all in PvP perspective.

To hell everyone saying "new talents are boring", there is so much to discuss about them we haven't done in years.

[Vigilate]

They modified the way the weapon %s work, they actually hit just as hard, the % coefficient just appears lower on tooltips in general.

Our guild's Ret paladin and I were talking about it and came to the conclusion that it's either just a change to the way the number is stored (similar to the ambush and backstab tooltip "changes" in 4.3) or they're changing melee abilities to start out doing relatively lower damage at lower levels to somewhat balance low level pvp.

[gvd13]

Does this mean rogues are losing our crit for backstab and ambush for sub? Because that would really suck.

[Timujingeo]

I'm liking the no CD on redirect, that should have been implemented from the start but I guess later is better than never.
I don't understand the increase on kick CD from 10 to 15 secs, 10 secs is bad enough, 15 will be a nightmare especially as everyone else's interrupts are mostly 10 secs.

[Ulgut]

I'm liking the no CD on redirect, that should have been implemented from the start but I guess later is better than never.
I don't understand the increase on kick CD from 10 to 15 secs, 10 secs is bad enough, 15 will be a nightmare especially as everyone else's interrupts are mostly 10 secs.

Almost all interrupts are changing, so that is nothing rogue specific, just as dispels will have a 8 sec cd.

[Imbashiethz]

Does this mean rogues are losing our crit for backstab and ambush for sub? Because that would really suck.

No, the crit will be passive in the spell.

[H3ll]

and i was talking about the Shoud of Concealment sorry, but yeah its nothing special in PvE.

Imagine all the trash we could skip with it!

[TheEaterofSouls]

"Shroud of Concealment" could very well be a raid wide shadowmeld and maybe it breaks when the rogue moves? Maybe they are given a timed warning for sudden movement. like 5 sec before it breaks. It could likely be used so that groups can prep closer to a boss after a wipe or hide temperarely in pvp. Im sure they would give it a duration in pvp. maybe 20-30 sec or less. The beta will most likely indecate any overpoweredness of the spell. Lines could be added to indicate range as well to prevent idiot players from jumping out.

Remember it doesnt specify that its a stealth, just a spell to hide players.

[Evolixe]

I'm a bit afraid for what is waiting.

With Feint having no cooldown and reducing ALL damage by 30% we might accually become viable flag carriers. 30% damage reduction is like 75% of our resilience right now. That is WAY overdone. All we would be missing is dispells. But if you take the no cooldown freedom you won't have to worry much about that either.

ShD reducing the energycost of ambush by half is also something i'm rather afraid of.. that basically means we can fully utilize our dance and put 7 full ambushes in it along with an evis.

Anticipation seems plain OP. Being able to generate 10 combo points and use 2 finishers one after another is going to severly broaden our options and pull off some incredible moves that are going to cause pain.

Mobility will be a huge issue for all melee. With dispells having a cooldown a healer is going to have to choose who to dispell and that will pretty much be saved exclusively for CC. A class with multiple roots can just wait for the healer to dispell and apply the second. Having the melee completely shut down unable to act at all.

Shroud of Concealment is lame. And i hope it won't go live. Stealthing a full raid might sound like fun for the pve'ers among us. But it is plain stupid in pvp. Imagne a team guarding a flag in AB with 1 rogue among them. You could have 8 people appear out of nowhere.
And if they can also move while under this effect without it breaking i don't even know what to say.

Shuriken toss sounds cool. Something rogues have been asking for for a long time. Gives us that bit of antikite we need.

Energetic recovery being linked to SnD sounds good to people who are annoiyed by recuperate right now. But if you look at my first statement you might want to think again. We won't even need it in the first place. And we can simply build up some extra combo points on our target to have as reserve so we can use it exactly when needed. And by buffing the duration of SnD our damage is only going to be bigger.

Conclusion: I have mixed feelings about this. Some stuff sounds cool but others sound plain OP or just wrong. Ofcourse we have to wait for the beta and then even for the official release. But we have to take this seriously.

[Deleted]

[/COLOR]And so much for wanting to not have any "wrong choices" ideology. Level 90 talents?

Shruiken!? Throw a star for 1.2k damage?

Versatily? Removes cooldown from Redirect.

Or Anticipation: an ability that allows you to carry over generated combo points past 5...

HRMMMMMMMM... TOUGH choice on that one! >_<

To be honest, this is a tough choice, especially if you PvP. A ranged CP builder is very useful. Especially if the Shurikens can apply poisons too.

I'm liking the new talent setup very much. Many things to experiment with

Shruiken!? Throw a star for 1.2k damage?

On a side note, I would ignore most of these damage numbers. It's quite meaningless now.

[Deleted]

I really don't mind the 15 sec cd on kick since we get the old version of deadly throw which makes it about 1-2 globals on interrupt cd, it has to be nerfed