Patch 5.0 PoH removed from disc (confirmed), get improved Holy Nova instead

[Themos]

Holy Nova being completely taken away from Holy is herp derp at this point. Considering the spell's saga. o.O

PoH definitely needs an rework if Holy will be the only spec to have a party restricted AoE. I'll wait on a revision of the priest MoP changes before over analyzing. The class ain't done kids.

[scandore8472]

Save a DPS with PS? What DPSs are those?

Mostly baddy dps in LFR. However you do realize there are tons of boss mechanics where this ability would be fantastic. EX Zon'ozz's Disrupting Shadows on a DPS with low health, Hagara's Watery Entrenchment. DPS tanking Baleroc's Torment, DPS tanking Majordomo's fire orbs, DPS erupting Magma Traps on Rag, Magmatron's Flamethrower. I don't really feel like looking up any more, but I know there similar boss mechanics in both WoTLK and BC

Further there are several huge balance problems with that spell:
1) It's basically a stronger PS without CD. (can be solved by a CD)

No, it's nothing like PS. It's like a pally's Hand of Sacrifice, but breaks at considerably less damage

2) The breaks on 30% damage part can be problematic and you could end up on refreshing the spell more often then you want. (can be solved by a CD, but would turn the spell into a 2nd PS)

Due to the damage being redirect towards you, this probably isn't a spell you would use in your rotation.

3) Regardless of the spell breaking often (you can simply recast it), how will the "over 6 seconds" part work? Stack like ignite? Or just refresh with the most recent attack? While the latter case sounds good for us, it doesn't for the designers if you imagine how much damage would go into nowhere. The other case will make the spell hard (or too much) to handle. (can be solved by tuning the numbers and removing the mechanic)

Since it doesn't have a CD, I imagine the damage that's redirected towards you would stack. This would get out of hand fairly quickly if you kept recasting it on someone. All spells shouldn't be easy. The solution is simple, don't be an idiot.

4) The "transfer 20% of healing done" part is practically useless to shadowpriests, and for disc priests it's noticeable weaker. (cannot be solved, and it's not the only talent noticeable worse for shadow)

It's a utility talent, VE is being replaced with VD. I imagine Shadow will choose VD. As for the other talents sucking for shadow, I don't know, and frankly I don't really care as I rarely go shadow. If I want to play with dots, I play my warlock.

5) On the other hand, the spell could never break for Disc Priests if Absorbs are strong enough. (cannot be solved)

How exactly is this a bad thing? And it can be solved by only applying damage reduction after absorbs are used.

6) If the spell is limited to "only one vow on a target at one point in time", the spell become worse the more priests you have, since the only desireable target will be the tank. (Again, all DDs get very nice surviveability CDs). If it doesn't, it get's a lot better the more priests there are. Both cases aren't desireable. (cannot be solved)

This point would be valid if that's actually what the tooltip says, However it's not. Itsays "Only one target can be linked with you using Vow of Unity at a time" IE you can't put it on multiple targets.

[Deleted]

tbh i think it will be changed, giving the tank a debuff to not allow more than one VoU.
A couple of 50% damage reduction buffs on the tank might be a bit to much, which also lowers the dot on ur self with each VoU i think (if damage reduction goes before the dot is calculated). Specially if u have Angelic Bulwark, a 30% bigger shield on ur self helps mitigating the dot specially if the dot stacks and the 20% built in beacon doesnt cut it any more.

Shadow self is fun spec to play (enjoy it more than a lock), just the talents arent giving many option to pick imo.

Im happy that we can change talents before a fight, VoU and VS are both interesting spells to play with.
Looking forward to it, my guild warned me about killing them in a simple lava lake

[Ethas]

Nova already works on Raid, though. I think we need to see just how they're going to change Nova (and possibly Prayer too) before making a decision on what will/won't be the better spec.

Now holy nova is raid-wide, but who knows what will they change in MoP. That's why I am worried being the only healer forced to group heal (yeah, those Non-Discipline ones).

[yurano]

Now holy nova is raid-wide, but who knows what will they change in MoP. That's why I am worried being the only healer forced to group heal (yeah, those Non-Discipline ones).

Aren't Druids, Holy Radiance Paladins and Chain Heal Shamans expected to group heal too?

I don't know many healers who dislike AoE damage though.

[Ethas]

Aren't Druids, Holy Radiance Paladins and Chain Heal Shamans expected to group heal too?

I don't know many healers who dislike AoE damage though.

By group heal I meant PoH being group-wide and largely depend on people positioning and damage patterns.

[sasofrass]

Priests are still majorly in development and you can not judge them so quickly without seeing a better updated version of the talent calculator.

[Ethas]

Priests are still majorly in development and you can not judge them so quickly without seeing a better updated version of the talent calculator.

Yes this is exactly what we heared for the whole alpha and beta Cata testing. And all we got is Chakra as Holy and rediculosly low mana regeneration compared to mana spending (which has been reported during beta dozzillions of times), both of those they overhauled only during live version up. Nice development.

[gaymer77]

What I want to know is if shadow will lose all AOE healing completely with MOP or if we get one of the AOE heals. Not like we should be healing that often but when it comes down to it, I'd rather have the utility than be replaced by a shaman who gets chain heal, pally with holy radience, or druid that gets tranquility. As it stands now, I use my hymn on the last platform on Madness just like druids pop tranq on the same one. Not having that utility will suck majorly.

[Arlee]

As of right now PoH is not listed as a spell shadow learns. Neither is Divine Hymn.

[Kelesti]

I can't speak for Druids, but the last I looked at the calculator, only Resto had Chain Heal, everyone else had to suck it up with Healing Surge. I know the same is true with Paladins (Ret gets Flash of Light and Word of Glory, everything else belongs to Holy).

Shadow Priests having Shield and Flash Heal seems to fit this paradigm. And quite frankly, it's doing what Cataclysm promised but didn't end up delivering on: Treating DpS roles as DpS. No Ret Paladin wants to be gutted because they /can/ cast a heal. But Cataclysm's design couldn't limit things from specs without making every necessary tool a talent, and nothing to the class. The Mists spec system locking Shadow out of healing isn't necessarily a bad thing, nor is it being singled out in this regard.

As far as Hymns are concerned, given Healing Tide and other such healing centric tools around the hybrids, we may see it. We may be limited to Divine Star/Vampiric Dominance.

I'd personally love to be brought for my damage and my ability to not stand in fire, rather than just because my class has a button to push.

[Kaesebrezen]

I can't speak for Druids, but the last I looked at the calculator, only Resto had Chain Heal, everyone else had to suck it up with Healing Surge. I know the same is true with Paladins (Ret gets Flash of Light and Word of Glory, everything else belongs to Holy).

All Shamans have Healing Rain, which can be talented for 10% reduced magic damage taken.
Druids still have Reju, Healing Touch and Tranquility (which can be improved through talents for all specs).

Shadow has basically nothing with a very weak PW:S and Flashheal. Shadow currently (and i don't believe that "priest is under heavy development" crap, if it was, we would've been listed next to shaman/hunter) is probably one of the worst specs looking at utility, in addition a gimped down rotation and boring talents (while the only new ones are tailored around healing specs).

[Kelesti]

I agree with the whole sentiment of our class beig an oversight. "We need to actually do something about those there shaman and hunters"
"what about priests"
"what about them?"
"Well aren't we going to get cool things or even an update?"
"uhhhhhhhh..... Sure. We'll go with that"

Shield's effectiveness is going up. This is something we know. Balancing a super shield as a standalone spellfor a spec (Discipline) can't happen without returning to ICC. But Spirit Shell coming in will alleviate that a significant bit, allowing Shadow to haw something more than a form dropping Flash Heal.

When it comes to Healing Rain being talented, the class as a whole has the spell, but I don't really expect it to put out solid numbers (Shadow casting Renew on live as a comparison). Utility wise, Shadow has the choice between a blessing of sacrifice or a pseudo lay on hands, both of which can be huge, or a vampiric embrace that could actually mean something and is always on.

I could see Fortifying Waters being dropped down a chunk even before the numbers balance comes in on offspec Healing Rain/Rejuv/Flashes. But then again, I could see Druid's broken mana pool in beta getting dropped because "Priests are exactly where we want all our healers to be". And look at how that turned out.

[Themos]

I think the March update will put things into a lot more perspective. The elephant in the room that we should not forget about is the Monk class, and specifically the healing/utility capabilities of its healing spec as well as the tank and DPS specs. That class should be what the rest of the healing classes should be compared to as the Monk class will have the most amount of developer time put into it.

What I really want to see:
1) PoH fixed to not be party based anymore (very archaic limit that needs to just go away finally)
2) Reworked Inner Fire/Will (these armors are suffering the same issue the lock armors did prior to Cataclysm atm)
3) More raid buffs and Utility, compared to Resto Shamans, Resto Druids and Holy pallies, we have by far the least.
4) 85+ Spell that gives the priest more flavor. Disc is getting Spirit Shell, which is great -- but the other two specs need something equally cool (especially shadow, imo)

I'm more worried about PvP than anything else for MoP. The priest class needs some sort of single target snare or CC on top of what tier 1 talents gives. Maybe rework Mind Control so you don't lose control of your toon while it goes on. Give us a pet bar instead that only lets us move the MC'd target around?

[Ethas]

I think the March update will put things into a lot more perspective. The elephant in the room that we should not forget about is the Monk class, and specifically the healing/utility capabilities of its healing spec as well as the tank and DPS specs. That class should be what the rest of the healing classes should be compared to as the Monk class will have the most amount of developer time put into it.

What I really want to see:
1) PoH fixed to not be party based anymore (very archaic limit that needs to just go away finally)
2) Reworked Inner Fire/Will (these armors are suffering the same issue the lock armors did prior to Cataclysm atm)
3) More raid buffs and Utility, compared to Resto Shamans, Resto Druids and Holy pallies, we have by far the least.
4) 85+ Spell that gives the priest more flavor. Disc is getting Spirit Shell, which is great -- but the other two specs need something equally cool (especially shadow, imo)

I'm more worried about PvP than anything else for MoP. The priest class needs some sort of single target snare or CC on top of what tier 1 talents gives. Maybe rework Mind Control so you don't lose control of your toon while it goes on. Give us a pet bar instead that only lets us move the MC'd target around?

Tbh I'm not fully against PoH being group-wide aoe heal. If they can keep it like 40% overheal (because not all in party are usually need a heal) and make it something like 100 yards range, it would be still less mindless than HR, CoH, CH and so. But still very usefull and fun. In that case they just have to give us a tool to deal with random-raid damage spikes (like CoH but more powerfull).
Also I completely agree with utility part. That always-not-working LoF is a hardly called an utility.

[babylon]

What I really want to see:
1) PoH fixed to not be party based anymore (very archaic limit that needs to just go away finally)

i actually enjoy that its party-wise and not just blind spam which will pick itself ppl who need healing.
it also forces setting groups properly when progressing on new fights and thinking about things like that, it just makes healing a tad more interesting

[Ethas]

i actually enjoy that its party-wise and not just blind spam which will pick itself ppl who need healing.
it also forces setting groups properly when progressing on new fights and thinking about things like that, it just makes healing a tad more interesting

Well right now it is sad you have to set groups wisely only because your priest healers will be useless otherwise..

[babylon]

Well right now it is sad you have to set groups wisely only because your priest healers will be useless otherwise..

whats sad about the fact that you actually can set groups smartly instead of dropping ppl randomly into parties?
its not like a hard work but it does add this mini-option to thinking, to planning, the small fading touch of vanilla raids.

[Deleted]

I'd like to see a CD based holy nova, which is placed on a target, it's then like a HoT with a holy nova emanating from the target ever 1 second or so for say 5 seconds.

[Arlee]

whats sad about the fact that you actually can set groups smartly instead of dropping ppl randomly into parties?
its not like a hard work but it does add this mini-option to thinking, to planning, the small fading touch of vanilla raids.

It's sad that the ONLY reason to do this is for the priest healer. Used to be you had to do this for group buffs and what not, you needed to set your groups in a very smart way. Now if you don't have a priest healer there is no real need to do this at all.