Patch 5.0 PoH removed from disc (confirmed), get improved Holy Nova instead

[Danner]

Hey, it's a class forum. This happens all over the place. The priest forums aren't particularly bad

Think of it this way. People care about their class and their game. At least I do. I've been told I care too much on several occasions.
The day you don't see complaints, that's either because everyone is incredibly happy, holding hands and singing Elton John songs...
... or the day the game died due to noone caring. I like people caring. Even if it gets heated at times.

Doesn't mean all complaints are valid, but the fact that you get 5 pages of discussion on a fansite over unconcrete hints offering the prospect of changing a spell in one of 34 specs in the game... that's a good thing!

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On topic: 1 week until the real news start ticking in! I can hardly wait until those discussions start

[scandore8472]

Cop out excuse, wasn't the entire point of holy nova was to make it discipline specific (completely different healing style than holy)? Meaning it would heal in a different way than PoH. If they said it was turning into PoH then that would defeat the purpose of holy nova revamp altogether. PoH is still being used by both specs, so it would make no difference if it was 2 healing spells or 1 except for that fact that holy nova was suppose to be revamped to not be PoH but share the same purpose.

Turning into cataclysms "promises" all over again.

It's not a cop-out, it's the truth. As much as I'd love to see HN reworked, I'd never sacrifice PoH for it.

[Themos]

Similarly, as a Holy priest I'm not a fan of losing HN either. Albeit it is rarely used, I do have uses for it. Especially in PvP (stealthed, snake traps, etc) it is a quality of life spell that losing I would consider a con to the class.

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So, instead of stripping disc of core heals and failing to re-invent CoH by tweaking Holy Nova, how about separating the two specs based on their core mechanics? Spirit Shell is a good start (though I suspect Spirit Shell to be about as useful as Heal). Chakra just need a redesign and you have something that should work!.

Chakra redesign isn't the problem at all. The mechanic is fine as is.

As far as differentiating the two specs, how different can they be than they already are? The only way to increase the divide is to give each spec a completely separate set of healing spells. I'd say that the difference between the specs is good enough, there's a distinct difference between the play styles and further separating it with HN vs PoH doesn't seem to bring anything new to the table. With a new healing class entering into the mix, they'll have their hands full figuring out a whole new set of healing abilities. Focus new stuff on Monks and just tweak what the rest have is there most likely attack plan.

Personally the only major change I'd like to see in MoP is changing PoH itself to not being party based, but that doesn't look like it'll happen. Outside that, refining the abilities we already have would be nice. Specifically, making Renew a bit more powerful would be a start. The spell pretty much sucked all this expansion, especially for Holy. PoM could use a facelift as well, relying on a glyph to make the spell worth casting just doesn't sit right with me.

[Kelesti]

The one thing they need to do is bring back the mana game that Priests and Shaman were playing at the beginning of Cataclysm (and all of beta). Make us spam Heal/Spirit Shell/lolSmite? to avoid going OoM. Except unlike last expansion, actually do the same to Druids/Paladins this time around.

If those spells suddenly become necessity, it makes the game no longer Wrath 3.0, and that is what would make them play different than anything else.

Forget Prayer/Nova changes, giving Discipline a "Heal that absorbs instead" doesn't do anything if content is balanced around high mana expenditures to begin with. We need Heal to come back, but making it hit as hard as a Greater is not the answer. Making mana count IS the point.

[Danner]

Chakra redesign isn't the problem at all. The mechanic is fine as is.

I can't agree that Chakra is fine as a mechanic. For most holypriests out there, myself included, chakra is a buff that won't change after starting the encounter. Sure, there are exceptions, but... 99% of all heroics I run in serenity, and 99% of all raids I run in sanctuary. While I can switch midfight, it's generally not worth the hassle, and as long as I don't get a raid healing assign involving tank healing, I won't need to.

If you can make it worth the hassle, then more power to you. I'm just saying I don't don't bother and don't feel particularly constrained by that fact.
As I see it, it's playing like a constant buff. Fire at the start of the fight, and forget about it.

As far as differentiating the two specs, how different can they be than they already are? The only way to increase the divide is to give each spec a completely separate set of healing spells. I'd say that the difference between the specs is good enough, there's a distinct difference between the play styles and further separating it with HN vs PoH doesn't seem to bring anything new to the table. With a new healing class entering into the mix, they'll have their hands full figuring out a whole new set of healing abilities. Focus new stuff on Monks and just tweak what the rest have is there most likely attack plan.

Personally the only major change I'd like to see in MoP is changing PoH itself to not being party based, but that doesn't look like it'll happen. Outside that, refining the abilities we already have would be nice. Specifically, making Renew a bit more powerful would be a start. The spell pretty much sucked all this expansion, especially for Holy. PoM could use a facelift as well, relying on a glyph to make the spell worth casting just doesn't sit right with me.

A very good point, and I agree!

I don't really think priests need two different toolkits. While all rogue specs have different tools, at the core they are the same class. Priests should be the same. PoH is well-tried and proven to work out well as an AoE heal, and should be able to serve Priests of both healing specs for quite a few more expansions. Give the new AoE heal idea to the monks! For the same reason I don't like stripping shadowpriests off all their heals. If you do, then they're no longer priests!

I would like to be able to arrange my groups locally without being told off by the server though

[zakaluka]

The one thing they need to do is bring back the mana game that Priests and Shaman were playing at the beginning of Cataclys.

Yes. This very much. However, to keep content patches on the same page, they'd have to change the way spirit works somewhat. I know they're already removing most forms of active mana return, but to keep regen a constant struggle throughout an expansion they have to put less spirit on items. Or have spirit scale more slowly with ilvl on items.

[Themos]

Supposedly ilvl scaling won't be nearly as steap in MoP as it has been the last couple expansions. But that has the con of coming across higher ilvl gear that isn't as good upgrade due to how the item is itemized.

I can't agree that Chakra is fine as a mechanic. For most holy priests out there, myself included, chakra is a buff that won't change after starting the encounter. Sure, there are exceptions, but... 99% of all heroics I run in serenity, and 99% of all raids I run in sanctuary. While I can switch midfight, it's generally not worth the hassle, and as long as I don't get a raid healing assign involving tank healing, I won't need to.

If you can make it worth the hassle, then more power to you. I'm just saying I don't don't bother and don't feel particularly constrained by that fact.
As I see it, it's playing like a constant buff. Fire at the start of the fight, and forget about it.

I'm very aware of how irrelevant chakra switching is depending on the raid encounter (or whatever) is and I'm ok with it none the less, mostly b/c Holy already has a metric ton of abilities that we use. I don't want to have to think about Chakra swapping during a fight more than I already do. It's an unnecessary complication. Going that route would increase our binds.

That said, I welcome more passive effects to our spells depending on Chakra state. Having it effect more than 3 spells would be neat. Maybe give Serenity more HoT effects and Sanctuary more proc type effects depending on whether the healing targets are standing in Sanctuary or not. But going down that route creates 3 types of healing priests which makes balancing even more complicated.

I would like to be able to arrange my groups locally without being told off by the server though

Preach it :/

It's the primary reason why I want PoH to not be party based anymore. Getting an Assist ranges from super easy to impossible depending on the nature of the pug, having your performance being cock blocked by an impatient, ignorant, or outright asshole of a RL is tiresome and archaic.

And then there is PvP to consider. In Battle Grounds, PoH is practically worthless b/c the chance of the 4 or 5 people anywhere near you are in the same group is near zero. Defending cap point against an assault is quite difficult as a priest b/c of this and in the bigger BGs even if you have 10 people near you, they are scattered among the parties. In world PvP, if you aren't in the same party/raid with your faction the spell is junk.

I was really hoping MoP would do a PoH redesign.

[Ethas]

Yes. This very much. However, to keep content patches on the same page, they'd have to change the way spirit works somewhat. I know they're already removing most forms of active mana return, but to keep regen a constant struggle throughout an expansion they have to put less spirit on items. Or have spirit scale more slowly with ilvl on items.

Tbh they have to balance disc priest/druid/paladin mana regen first. And only after that change some base mechanics for the rest.
Overall mana game was fun at the start of expansion (tho not LFD one, randoms was really horrible =\), it just needs to be fair for all classes.

Also I think they have to remake Chakra, it is useless as of right now. It just was debuff in disguise and it didn't bring any fun to the gameplay. PoH must be redesigned aswell. But honestly, I want something completely new in holy priest gameplay and working (not like they did with Chakra).

[Purpleisbetter]

Party restriction on PoH is plain ridicolous.

Its useful only to get huge stacks of DA pre-fight. Given that, its a plain nerf of the spell.

[RumpleFugly]

I agree that Chakra needs reworking. Right now its basically just a passive buff (with one spell added in). I like the idea of having to stance-dance during fights. I like the idea of it altering all of our spells. Honestly, i'd take just about anything.

POH being party bound is retarded imo. Not sure what the fix should be. I don't think priest should simply become the same as every other class but I'm not sure of a way to raid heal uniquely.

And tbh I liked the holy-poh and disc-hn idea. I guess it would be awesome for holy/disc priests because we could simply pick which spec was better for each fight. But anyone w/ a shadow spec would have to pick one or the other and be sol when you went disc/shadow for a non-stacking fight. I do wish they had worked through it. The idea had potential.

How would you all feel about reworking HN for both specs as our "stack raid heal" and reworking poh as both specs "spread raid heal"?

[PsyBomb]

Speaking as a Holy priest who does a lot of PvP and RF-level PvE, stance-dancing Chakras isn't really needed half the time. The other half, though...

In PvP, abusing the split Holy Word cooldowns is one of the big signs that you know what you're doing. Dropping a Sanctuary, hit Chakra, Chastise someone, Flash Heal, cast Serenity. That sequence has done CRAZY things, and that doesn't count the use of Chastise when defending both nodes and yourself. I agree that in PvE you don't dance Chakras very much unless something is going wrong, but it happens every now and then (usually when a tank fudges a taunt or is slow getting out of a fire... or is undergeared and needs focusing)

I WOULD like to see more variety in raid fights or opportunity to swap Chakras for effect. Any fight that has significant healing style changes between phases would do it.

[nobodysbaby]

Chakra has no meaning as it is in PvE 25. It is only limiting gameplay at best (if you even use it as you mention) not making us "stronger", that would not work.

I would prefer if Chakra was a CD to actually make us heal for more during a period of time, but still make it different from PI/ToL/Palawing etc, and that difference could be we have to choose what spells we want to "boost" for the moment; AoE or single target.

They should idd be looking at solutions for the Chakra mechanic, and PoH being groupbased. Being able to move players within groups in raids would be neat, but annoying yet again.

[Kelesti]

Prior to the Mists trees being announced, I'd been musing on the idea of Chakra as a "cooldown" of sorts to basically play against not having Archangel. Activating a Chakra greatly increases the healing (or disorient) effect of our next Holy Word, or is a flat out on demand 15%+heal for 6 seconds. Or something. It would make us care about its cooldown, and feel awesome using it rather than a fury warrior who sees Battle Stance and wants to know what the heck he's supposed to use that for (Serenity in 25s).

Even if after those 6-8 seconds were over, and Chakra outside of that time frame played out identically to the way it does now, us dropping and re-upping would still make me care more than I do today (which is why I loved Chakra 30/30).

[RumpleFugly]

I'm not big on the cooldown idea. I feel that holy would be pretty bland. Spam POH and COH + hit button on burst. I would like to see Holy be more than just that. I feel Chakra should be much more than simply a PI.

[Ethas]

Chakra has no meaning as it is in PvE 25. It is only limiting gameplay at best (if you even use it as you mention) not making us "stronger", that would not work.

I would prefer if Chakra was a CD to actually make us heal for more during a period of time, but still make it different from PI/ToL/Palawing etc, and that difference could be we have to choose what spells we want to "boost" for the moment; AoE or single target.

They should idd be looking at solutions for the Chakra mechanic, and PoH being groupbased. Being able to move players within groups in raids would be neat, but annoying yet again.

Agreed.
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