1. #1

    Help our Prot Pally

    Our Prot Pally is addicted to mastery. I suspect he's over hard CTC cap and could be gemming some stamina, but he's pretty stubborn. Our healers were screaming bloody murder about his dying to heroic zon'ozz. Can someone help with rebalancing his stats? Also, it would help to spell it out real clearly so we can explain/cite for him.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...hnllt/advanced

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    He is actually right at CTC cap with his gear, assuming he has the right buffs in the Raid. CTC cap is 102.4. He has 101.8 with his gear, and with Horn/Battle Shout, Mark/Kings, and food he should be just over cap. I can't say if its his fault or not if hes dying without logs.
    Last edited by Neprut; 2012-02-16 at 07:49 AM.

  3. #3
    Having glyphed DP and a tol barad trinket are very strong cooldowns for zonozz cone attacks, make sure he has a cd up for them, especially for the ones when zonozz is at 5+ damage buff stacks

  4. #4
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    I would have reforged out of expertise and hit if I was in his shoes. Get some more dodge and parry. When you reach CTC you should look at how to move from mastery and more into parry and dogde when covering the CTC. Ofc health/stamina is very important to espesially when going into heroic raiding. (remember that paladins don't have the Hold the line talent that warriors have, so keep dodge and parry close).

    Other then that it's a matter of cooldown use and proper management of them

    If he has the Idomitable pride trinket, I would use that instead of Scales of life (veil of lies is a sweet trinket to since the proc there is dodge).

  5. #5
    From looking at his gear in CharDev, his dodge is lower than parry with buffs, almost 2%. So some reforging can be done.

    I personally think that dodge/stam and parry/stam gems are the wrong way to gem. He's probably losing stats from this. After plugging around a bit with CharDev, here's what I got.

    http://chardev.org/?profile=348446

    He's gained about 4k unbuffed health with no loss of any dodge, parry or block; nor did he lose anything towards CTC. Yes, I'm forgoing a lot of socket bonuses, but again, if you notice, I lost nothing in avoidance stats to gain what I did and I only put in mastery/stam gems in yellow or blue sockets when needed to maintain tCTC.


    I also think, that if he's dying, he's not using CDs properly; but as it was stated, we cannot know for sure without logs.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Felade View Post
    Our Prot Pally is addicted to mastery. I suspect he's over hard CTC cap and could be gemming some stamina, but he's pretty stubborn. Our healers were screaming bloody murder about his dying to heroic zon'ozz. Can someone help with rebalancing his stats? Also, it would help to spell it out real clearly so we can explain/cite for him.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...hnllt/advanced

    Thanks.
    Might help to know a little about your strat too.

  7. #7
    Our strat for Zon'ozz HM (he's on farm, but we usually use our Prot Warrior who was gone this week) is one tank, 3 healer,s 9/5/7/5. Our problem was that we were trying to use a healer CD for the last 4 stacks of the 9, but our Pally is actually pretty poor at calling out and using CDs (part of why we use our warrior who's much better at this). Our Disc Priest was busy with the ranged, so he was depending on callouts (sometimes our Disc Priest gets a little focused on the green bars and has a tough time multitasking). Most of his deaths last night were due to poor cooldown use imo.

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/afqqw40c1rl4m4nh/

    Ugh. 28 tries this week on a boss we supposedly have "on farm". Its amazing how much replacing a few people can make a big difference.
    Last edited by Felade; 2012-02-16 at 03:10 PM.

  8. #8
    If that's the case, then a guild raid group pow-wow is in order to tell him to use CDs more. They are there for a reason and no one but him can push them.

  9. #9
    So many "pow-wows", so little results. The guy has been with us for more than a year and we just recruited the prot warrior and we bring in the prot warrior and after 2 weeks everyone's worried we won't get bosses down without him. By "recruited" I mean, we were desperate for a tank whose hand we didn't have to hold the minute we started heroics every tier.

  10. #10
    Deleted
    1) no glyphed DP -> 40% spell damg reduction for those high stacks far outweights the 20% physical loss when it's a 1 min cd spell.
    2) he has 2/2 guarded by light is he actualy using WoG enough as if not those are wasted.

    ->10 hours ago he achieveted heroic kil so i assume you managed it with him anyway

    possible changes -> lots of spike damg in dragon soul is magic swap that meta for the 2% spell damg reduction as 1% on blocks is soooooo small on some fights on heroic compared to taking 25 less damg from all spells over the whole fight.
    he has no 4 piece t13 yet? how has he managed that? geting 50% more uptime on the 20% damg reduction for your raid along with the fact the prev tier 2pc is only damg and no help to anyone anymore he should have replaced those shoulders a while ago with morchocks.normal or heroic

  11. #11
    Tell him to replace his firelands belt with the VP one.
    He loses about 100 mastery (bad) but gains 216 parry (+25 more parry from the strength difference). Gains some minor amount of stamina and armor, and gains an extra gem socket. Depending on how he gems those sockets he will gain up to 95 of the mastery lost back. No matter how high his DR on parry is 241 parry > 5 mastery).

    Tell him to stop being cheap with his gems. Epic tank gems (at least on my server) are pretty cheap - couple hundred each. It's the red queen's garnets at 4k each I refuse to buy for my caster.

  12. #12
    4P T13 is in no way mandatory for tanking in DS. While I admit it is very nice for raid survivability, there are many tanks completing 8/8 with 4p T12.


    If you're not getting results from him, personally, it's time to recruit to replace him. Let him know that no one is above being replaced for sub-optimal performance.

  13. #13
    Oh yeah that's pretty much clear. We've pretty much replaced him, just our prot warrior was gone this week and the bear tank we also recruited has disappeared off the face of the earth after transferring like 8 toons to our server o.O

    That is also why he has no 4pc, he's MS ret now, and 10 mans don't actually get tier for their offspec now, because apparently the RNG is too busy dropping the 100th protector token when we have only 1 shaman and 1 warrior in our raids (the warrior never tanks, and the shaman never plays enh).

    the 2/2 Guarded by the Light was in there because he was specced into Hallowed Ground before and our Holy Pally was trying things to get him to stop dying.

    If that's the case, then a guild raid group pow-wow is in order to tell him to use CDs more. They are there for a reason and no one but him can push them.
    He keeps telling me AD is crap now, all it is for is for "cheesing encounters." I usually respond with an innner o.O and "that's...kind of what raiding is about...cheesing encounter mechanics so they don't, you know, kill you".

    Yeah, we go the kill, after 28 attempts this week. We had to bag even trying Hagara this week (which we got for the first time last week) because everyone was tired of wiping on a boss that should have only taken one or two attempts to kill for us. Even then, it was touch and go when we did kill it, and we had a couple of 10% wipes because of tank movement errors.

  14. #14
    First off he needs to replace a Puissant with a Fractured.
    Reforge Cloak Expertise-> Mastery
    Reforge Chest Parry-> Dodge
    Reforge 2nd Ring Parry-> Mastery
    Reforge Belt Mastery-> Dodge

    Should end up with 102.49% CTC raid buffed.
    16.7% Dodge and 17.33% Parry.

    -As far as logs go I looked at your kill and there are things he can improve. He overlaps a lot of cooldowns. As Zon'ozz gets higher stacks you'll generally be wanting to have a CD at all times. You can get 2 uses of Holy Shield everytime the Void is out and a use after Zon'ozz becomes active during Black Blood.
    -He never used Guardian once in the entire fight.
    -3 out of the 12 wipes in his death log he took a big Psychic Drain before his death so if he is going to continue tanking the fight in the future he may want to invest in a Mirror of Broken Images. If he does get one or has one already he may want to reforge around that because that is also a fight where complete combat table coverage can be the difference between dying and living.

    Hope that helped.

    -Estra

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