No full dual-spec (advanced class dual spec) in the near future - thoughts?

[Dark77]

From 1.2 Q&A:

Aurozia: Will there be a dual specialization system in the future? Will there be a possibility of changing advance classes as well?

Daniel Erickson: We have no plans for switching advanced classes - which we see as fundamentally different class designs- but dual spec is in the works and coming soon.

I find this highly disappointing. They will let us have a dual-spec, in all likelyhood to have an option to switch between PVE and PVP specs easily, however it will be impossible to switch advanced class.

Right now, I have a Jedi Knight guardian nearing level 50, and once done, I was thinking of possibly rolling a Jedi Shadow as well, just so in the future I would have JK Guardian/JK Sentinel, and Sage/Shadow options at the same time, and have "holy trinity" - melee tank, 2 different melee dps, healer. However, although I enjoy SWTOR, I have to say that I do not enjoy it that much that I see myself even rolling a Jedi Shadow in the next few months, let alone doing another JK just so that I would have both Guardian and Sentinel.

I would greatly prefer if dual spec for advanced classes is available like in Warcraft. While I really really don't want this to turn into WoW - SWTOR discussion, simple comparisons are unavoidable. In WoW, there is an option to bring your main into the raid, and provided you have enough gear, be a highly effective dps/tank, tank/healer, /dps/healer combo in the same raid. It offers full flexibility to enjoy 1 class to the absolute maximum, as even if you have 2 different level 85 chars, it is highly unlikely they will both be geared well enough for raiding. You always have only one main.

And yes, I realise that Warcraft has been waiting for dual-spec for about 5 years before it was brought in. However, now it is here in the MMO universe, and it should not be put back in the box in a game that wants to be WoW's competitor. I believe that this decision of Bioware is strategically placed to make people level more characters once they hit 50, as a vast majority of players never do endgame instancing. So they want to make people like me who have levelled a JK Guardian to a whole new character if we want a Sentinel to wield twin light sabres, as I want, rather than cancel the subscription for the few months until some new content comes out. I can't see it happenning though, speaking for myself at least. Especially as I believe that advanced-class dual spec will be introduced down the line, maybe in a year, maybe in three, and that it is right now being witheld purely for strategic reasons.


I also believe that this decision made by Bioware could actually backfire on them. Those who enjoy levelling would in all probability level 2 JK chars to have both Guardian and Sentinel chars even without dual-spec anyway. People like me (I don't claim a majority, but I think there is a considerable number) would most probably cancel their subscription anyway if they get bored with the game while waiting to (possibly) re-sub when new content comes out. Dual-speccing advanced classes would be a great way to fight this game-boredom off, I have a level 50 guardian, bit tired of tanking, so let's spend 4-5 weeks learning to be a Sentinel.




Disclaimer:
-This is not intended as a Warcraft Vs SWTOR thread
-This is not intended as a "LOLZ BIOWARE U CRAZY I QUIT GET BETTER SERVERS NERDRAGE" QQ thread
-This is not intended as "My view on the game is correct when I say that I don't want to level another several chars as I don't enjoy levelling that much, and everyone who says otherwise is wrong and an idiot"

[GallowsZA]

Thoughts: YAY!

[Nerag]

I don't see why that is disappointing, I like it is that way, advanced clases are different classes altogether... so I don't get why you would have that feeling of disappointment

[Enurian]

Well... what they plan is exactly how it works in WoW. We have essentially 8 classes, not 4.

[Cairhiin]

You expected to be able to switch class? Of course that wasn't going to happen. Jedi Sentinel, and Jedi Guardian are two vastly different classes. I already leveled 2 Consulars to have both a healer and a tank as I knew they wouldn't allow you to switch class.

WoW doesn't allow you to switch class either. Oh look I'm bored with my Paladin, lets switch class to Shaman. The reason they don't do that is because it reduces replayability.

[lokithor]

Thoughts: YAY!

My thoughts exactly

What you're asking for is to change classes on the fly. Can you switch between lock and mage? No you cant.

I hope they never implement Dual AC. it will be the day I quit.

[Bongomadness]

You dont want it to be a wow vs swtor thread yet you mention 'wow competitor' and mention what wow has and doesnt have in your post also.....riiight.
Also they made it clear from the start about once you choose your advance class thats what your stuck with so why people ask these questions or keep going on about it is beyond me.

[Norgur8]

I'm kind of happy about this. I've decided to play all classes for the story, and dual spec, while not mandatory to use, would somehow lead me to have 4 "druids". Now I can play all the stories and have completely different experience with gameplay. For instance I'll roll a Guardian on Republic side and a Marauder on Empire. I much prefer this over just a Knight and Warrior.

I do understand why some people want it though, but I'm always prepared when getting into new MMOs that the character I roll might not be to my liking down the road and I'm always prepared to reroll if that's the case.

[Imral]

As the above posters have said the different ACs should be considered totally seperate classes.

To put it into WoW terms since you alluded to that it would be like rolling a mage then getting to level cap and changing that mage to a warlock or priest.

[llandrywyn]

Guardian and Sentinel have fundamentally different play styles. They are, in all practicality, as different from each other as, for example, a warrior and a death knight are from each other in WoW. They can both fill the melee DPS or tank role and (with dual spec being implemented for talent tree switching) they can swap between if they have suitable gear sets on the fly. But they perform those roles using a (mostly) different set of skills.

Mechanically what you are asking for, as explained by your post, is what you will get; the ability for one character to fill two different roles by changing specs and gear. However it appears you have misunderstood the point of the advanced class. It is a separate and complete class; the only thing it shares with the other advanced class associated with it is the story line and a basic toolkit.

[Dynamite]

IMO it will never be implemented and i hope it wont be.

Different advanced classes in TOR are like different complete classes in WoW...just because TOR has been nice enough to let you do the first 10 levels and then make the choice does not mean that you can look upon your lvl50 sorceror as similar to an assassin.

It would be like letting people in wow playing warlocks change to a mage.

In your AC you have the option to spec as a tank/healer or dps depending on tree with the exception of sniper/marauder. So just respec to whatever you want.

The 'Dual Spec' feature they are introducing is IMO brilliant. You play your AC with your guild in your pve spec and then you can quickly at no penalty change to a pvp spec in the evenings or whatever and do pvp 'optimized' for the environment. I dread to think how many pvp spec'd people are running around in nightmare mode KP atm but i bet its a fair few simply because they cant be arsed paying to respec every other day. Im astounded by the fact so many think they should be able to change AC and comparing it to changing spec in wow...it is clearly completely different.

So no to changing AC EVER
and YaY to dual spec

Good decision BW

[Omniclass]

In wow you can spec between holy and shadow as a priest. Not between a priest and a warlock (Advanced Classes) Dual spec between your ACs is gonna happen ever hopefully. Awesome. Dual spec within your ac umm okay no..You dont have to make another JK Sith warriors have the mirror and a new story to boot. I rolled 2 sith inq. one sorc the other assassin just because the consular story sucked imo but i enjoyed the shadow/assassin playstyle(sorc was my first 50)

[Draknalor186]

y i agree with him, yay

u shouldent be able too switch advance classes but, i would like to switch between 2 speccs =P like carnage and annihilation

[Prag]

I'm glad. It would kind of be silly to have this dialog at level 10 before you pick that says IT CANNOT BE UNDONE only to later undo it.

Dual spec is sort of necessary. The costs for re-specs were astronomical and just stupid. Then again, I've never understood why they'd charge you to respec. Laziest money sink ever. With all the changes that go on in MMORPG's, it's ludicrous that they'd punish you for investigating the so-called "deep" talent trees.

[ZeroWashu]

Stupid decision. The game never acknowledges your choice of Advance class, no NPC takes notice, no companion, and apparently no story element. Sorry, but once through a class quest is enough if not too much at times.

[Omniclass]

Stupid decision. The game never acknowledges your choice of Advance class, no NPC takes notice, no companion, and apparently no story element. Sorry, but once through a class quest is enough if not too much at times.

Thats why mirrors exist.

[Dakia]

I will admit that, at first, the lack of AC switching kind of annoyed me. However, after playing the game since launch, I can that I'm actually glad that it isn't in the game and isn't planned to be added. The ACs really do play like different classes and I think that those should be kept separate.

I'm also extremely happy to see that they are adding dual spec withing specific ACs. As a Commando, I often switch between healing and dps specs.

[Prag]

Because having more options for a potentially fun gaming experience is always a reason for quitting, right? A lock and a mage are different classes with separate talent trees. However, Bioware made a base class divide into two more separate classes with three talent trees each that share A LOT of abilities that do slightly different things.

On my paladin main, I tank and dps. I also have the option to heal if I so desire. All done without wasting 38 hours of my life rerolling a slightly different class that does nearly the same thing.

On my shaman, I melee dps and I have caster spec as my offspec. I can heal too if I want.

On my Inquisitor, I can tank, melee, or melee with dots. BORING! They should have just traded the madness caster and melee spec for each other for more variety. Hopefully they do such changes in an expansion or major update.

Anyway, putting that as one of my 9 reasons for quitting when they ask why in my cancellation page later this month.

So you went Assassin, even though the idea of Tanking or Melee DPS'ing (DD or DoT) was boring? Why?

Paladins and Druids a pretty terrible example, by the way. When there's 10 total classes and only 2 can fulfill every role, that's the minority.

If a Hunter, Mage, Warlock or Rogue want to do anything other than DPS, they have to re-roll. If a Warrior or Death Knight want to Heal, they re-roll. Why shouldn't you, an ASSASSIN that wants to HEAL, re-roll?

Besides, it's an MMORPG. Re-rolling is half the fun, especially when the game is so new and the "end game" is pretty bland.

[Dark77]

Fair enough, I can see that I am in large minority.

I understand what people are saying that "Advanced Classes are different than WoW setup", and yes they are, perhaps I was speaking mainly from a hardcore raider point of view which I hope to become one day in SWTOR. Basically, in WoW I have an option with my main (priest) to utilise all three available specs (I don't PvP). I have 2 almost completely different gear sets, and very often in one raid night I switch completely from being my primary spec (healer) to dps (shadow), without any "hybrid class dps tax". My dps is as good as some rogues, which are pure dps class, and is quite often in the top 3 dps charts. As a healer, I often re-spec between holy and discipline depending on what boss we are fighting, and although I cannot do this via quick dual-spec (have to go see a trainer and re-spec), I don't mind at all, because playing one main character offers me two vastly different raid roles and rotations, and another two subtly different ways of healing. I can't deny that I love that setup, which is only possible because raiding continually with one (main) character, it allows me to pick up high-end gear for both Main Spec and Off Spec, which would be much more time consuming and would borderline impossible with two completely different characters. To me it carries a great enjoyment of the game knowing that I know fully my class inside out, and nearly all of its aspects, and that I can employ it without any dps loss to be an optimal contributor to my raid party. However in SWTOR, based on what I have read so far, if I had a JK Guardian dps spec, while the dps penalty between DPS Guardian and DPS Sentinel is not radically great, it would still be there, and in raids and hard-mode raids, it would mean that I would not be giving my absolute best as I could with Guardian/Sentinel spec switch.

And to the Bongomadness above, yes, I am mentioning Warcraft while the very last thing I want is for this to become "Warcraft Vs SWTOR" thread. I don't want to have "WoW is so great, SWTOR sucks I quit haha SWTOR will die, losers" thread, I am simply saying what in my opinion would make SWTOR a game that I would enjoy even more. Purely academically though, as seen from the first post, I am not even sure if I will be a casual/hardcore raider in SWTOR. And I can see that a lot of people disagree, but surely it's still OK to have an opinion on the matter?

[Prag]

Stupid decision. The game never acknowledges your choice of Advance class, no NPC takes notice, no companion, and apparently no story element. Sorry, but once through a class quest is enough if not too much at times.

That's a fundamental problem with the game, not the presence/absence of AC switching.