Thread: Dark Soul

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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Sockmaster View Post
    I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume that mastery being snapshotted will be fixed. If you read carefully, meta doesn't offer a damage increase based on your mastery; it doubles the benefit you are getting from Demonic Fury.
    Actually it does: Demonology's Mastery increases the benefit of Demonic Fury, and also increases the damage you deal while transformed. But I also think that they'll fix Metamorphosis snapshotting stats.
    Do you like to play with fire?

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Simenon View Post
    Actually it does: Demonology's Mastery increases the benefit of Demonic Fury, and also increases the damage you deal while transformed. But I also think that they'll fix Metamorphosis snapshotting stats.
    Ah, but that's why I said to read carefully. The mastery tooltip does say it increases the damage you deal while transformed into a demon. However, if you read the Metamorphosis tooltip, it simply says "You transform into a Demon, increasing the benefit of Demonic Fury by 100% ..."

    So if you get like 10% damage out of Demonic Fury, Meta won't just increase your damage by 20% for the duration. It will just give you double of whatever Demonic Fury is giving you. It's hard to say for sure without knowing much about Demonic Fury mechanics, but I'm about 87% confident that it will update in real time with fluctuating amounts of Mastery.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Sockmaster View Post
    Ah, but that's why I said to read carefully. The mastery tooltip does say it increases the damage you deal while transformed into a demon. However, if you read the Metamorphosis tooltip, it simply says "You transform into a Demon, increasing the benefit of Demonic Fury by 100% ..."

    So if you get like 10% damage out of Demonic Fury, Meta won't just increase your damage by 20% for the duration. It will just give you double of whatever Demonic Fury is giving you. It's hard to say for sure without knowing much about Demonic Fury mechanics, but I'm about 87% confident that it will update in real time with fluctuating amounts of Mastery.
    This sounds convincing, I just hope we don't have to pop out of meta after DS ends to save the Demonic Fury for the next DS+Meta or execution phase.

  4. #24
    Trouble with a fixed number is that it scales badly, the very reason they changed Fel Armor to no longer grant a fixed amount of spellpower.

  5. #25
    How does 15%/30% damage for 20 seconds scale badly? It might be a set amount of mastery, but mastery gives a % damage increase.

    The only one that scales poorly is the Destruction buff. 30% crit will always be a set amount of crit rating (~5400 at 85), while haste is multiplicative with itself, and a direct increase in damage percentage obviously scales well.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Sockmaster View Post
    Ah, but that's why I said to read carefully. The mastery tooltip does say it increases the damage you deal while transformed into a demon. However, if you read the Metamorphosis tooltip, it simply says "You transform into a Demon, increasing the benefit of Demonic Fury by 100% ..."

    So if you get like 10% damage out of Demonic Fury, Meta won't just increase your damage by 20% for the duration. It will just give you double of whatever Demonic Fury is giving you. It's hard to say for sure without knowing much about Demonic Fury mechanics, but I'm about 87% confident that it will update in real time with fluctuating amounts of Mastery.
    I interpret that differently: at level 10, you get Metamorphosis and Demonic Fury, giving you +6.5% damage bonus normally and +13% damage bonus during Metamorphosis. At level 80, you get Mastery, that does three different things: in the first place, it increases the damage bonus from Demonic Fury by 6.5%, meaning we get +13% damage bonus normally and +26% damage bonus during Metamorphosis; in the second place, it increases the damage you deal while transformed by 6.5%, and this doesn't appear to be tied to Demonic Fury, it's just another effect you gain during Metamorphosis; and finally, each points of Mastery increases these bonuses by 0.5%.
    So, yes, Mastery does directly increases damage done during Metamorphosis.

    Besides, the fact alone that Mastery also increases the damage bonus of Demonic Fury and Metamorphosis doubles that bonus meant that Metamorphosis gives a damage bonus based on Mastery: the more Mastery you have, the higher damage bonus you get through Demonic Fury, the higher this bonus gets when doubled by Metamorphosis.
    Do you like to play with fire?

  7. #27
    Field Marshal SaranethSlo's Avatar
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    My heart started beating from joy. Warlocks <3 <3 <3

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Simenon View Post
    I interpret that differently: at level 10, you get Metamorphosis and Demonic Fury, giving you +6.5% damage bonus normally and +13% damage bonus during Metamorphosis. At level 80, you get Mastery, that does three different things: in the first place, it increases the damage bonus from Demonic Fury by 6.5%, meaning we get +13% damage bonus normally and +26% damage bonus during Metamorphosis; in the second place, it increases the damage you deal while transformed by 6.5%, and this doesn't appear to be tied to Demonic Fury, it's just another effect you gain during Metamorphosis; and finally, each points of Mastery increases these bonuses by 0.5%.
    So, yes, Mastery does directly increases damage done during Metamorphosis.

    Besides, the fact alone that Mastery also increases the damage bonus of Demonic Fury and Metamorphosis doubles that bonus meant that Metamorphosis gives a damage bonus based on Mastery: the more Mastery you have, the higher damage bonus you get through Demonic Fury, the higher this bonus gets when doubled by Metamorphosis.
    I see it this way.

    1. Metamorphosis doubles your Demonic Fury damage bonus while it is active (whether or not the Demonic Fury damage increase can change while meta is up remains to be seen, but hard to see why it wouldn't).

    2. Since the tooltip only says that it increases the benefit of Demonic Fury (in an age where Blizzard is trying to make tooltips less complicated), if the Mastery damage bonus is separate, it will also fluctuate while meta is up. Like a simple "Is meta up? Yep. 13 mastery? Give him 6.5% more damage. Oh it's 16 mastery now? Give him 8%."


    Bigger, more intense interpretation of how it all works:

    Before level 80, Demonic Fury does not offer any increase to damage. The purpose of Demonic Fury will be to fuel Metamorphosis. The purpose of Metamorphosis is the ability to use awesome spells like Leap, Demonic Slash, Immolation Aura, etc.

    Metamorphosis will have a duration based on how much Demonic Fury you had saved up (I'm guessing one second for every 10 demonic fury), and will wipe your Demonic Fury slate clean after the duration runs out. This means part of the goal during Meta will be to use as much Demonic Fury that you had saved up as you can.

    Once you hit level 80, you get the damage bonus added to Demonic Fury and consequently, Metamorphosis.

    This could potentially all be wrong, but it's fun to guess (because I would secretly love to play the spec like this).

  9. #29
    Just for those who don't want to do the math: The average benefit whether you use it or not is the same. So the use is mostly for "I want burst and it want it NAO!"(did somebody say spine?) or the last 20s of a fight(Why, hello there, Ultraxion).

    I also do agree that Meta will probably update mastery dynamically now, especially since it doesn't seem to have any kind of duration anymore. I was actually kinda confused it doesn't already, since Eclipse on my druid has been doing that for quite a while now.
    (Does that mean one can just permanently run around in Meta till 42?)

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Just for those who don't want to do the math: The average benefit whether you use it or not is the same. So the use is mostly for "I want burst and it want it NAO!"(did somebody say spine?) or the last 20s of a fight(Why, hello there, Ultraxion).

    I also do agree that Meta will probably update mastery dynamically now, especially since it doesn't seem to have any kind of duration anymore. I was actually kinda confused it doesn't already, since Eclipse on my druid has been doing that for quite a while now.
    (Does that mean one can just permanently run around in Meta till 42?)
    The idea of permanently running around in meta kinda gives me a boner

    Made by dubbelbasse

  11. #31
    Demonic fury will fuel meta, and the abilities you use during it.
    So therefore the more demonic fury you have the longer meta will last.
    It does have a duration and will not be permanent.

    That was clarified previously, but is not made clear on the tooltip.

  12. #32
    I assume there is gonna be a max amount of DF you can gain? Or some mechanic that resets it. I foresee spending half an hour before every raid spamming shadowbolt on a dummy to stack it all :P

  13. #33
    It will be gained through the use of your normal abilities, not unlike holy power.
    There will be DF generators, and when in Meta there will be DF spenders or dumps.

    I would assume it decays over time too, though not stated as such.
    Otheriwse you could turn into a mini-tank and maintain that armor bonus by simply not casting any dumps.
    Would be too good for pvp flag carrying I feel.

  14. #34
    My guess is that there will be a ~600 DF cap (because it will be 60 seconds of Meta based off my wildest predictions) and you will lose any DF you had left over after the duration of Meta ends.

  15. #35
    Firt of all thanks ComputerNerd for the info. I trid to see the abilitty through an official forum link but it just wasn't working

    This really looks promising and much better than Demon Soul. And thank you Jessicka for influencing the blues with your posts, I guess they do read the EU warlock forums after all, hehe.

    As you said it is one of the omissions, just like WILD IMPS! So don't worry all you Demon lovers, we're still getting this ability

  16. #36
    Demo shouldn't have Dark Soul at all, or maybe even Wild Imps in it's current incarnation. The spec pretty clearly should be working around the dynamism of Meta, not risking being tied to the see-sawing of cooldown timers that we had in 4.2.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Demo shouldn't have Dark Soul at all, or maybe even Wild Imps in it's current incarnation. The spec pretty clearly should be working around the dynamism of Meta, not risking being tied to the see-sawing of cooldown timers that we had in 4.2.
    Dark Soul is fine. You'll want to use Meta at your own convenience, but you will only end up using Dark Soul coupled with Meta. It's not imperative that you use Dark Soul on CD since it gives a passive DPS increase when not on cooldown.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Sockmaster View Post
    Dark Soul is fine. You'll want to use Meta at your own convenience, but you will only end up using Dark Soul coupled with Meta. It's not imperative that you use Dark Soul on CD since it gives a passive DPS increase when not on cooldown.
    That only mitigates slightly the times you want to sit on Dark Soul to get a phase over, or alternately you have Wild Imps as a Fury dump so you're not sat too long at max DF waiting instead for DS. I don't see how it's not a 2 min see saw, but this time with some mitigation for RNG.

  19. #39
    More fun for me. Yay! I kind of like the demo changes. Although Dark Soul is still going to be like Demon Soul: Macroed to meta.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenexis View Post
    More fun for me. Yay! I kind of like the demo changes. Although Dark Soul is still going to be like Demon Soul: Macroed to meta.
    Meta will have no cooldown it appears, and no certainty it will snapshot mastery again.

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