Thread: Dark Soul

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  1. #41
    Yeah but I'm guessing that tthe DF build up will be considered its "cooldown", unless you generate DF at an incredibly fast rate.

  2. #42
    For DF generation, just check the spell tooltips. It's already in the calc. Bigger issue is that we don't really know how fast you would spend it and how much you can store, though it's unlikely to be less than a couple hundred points given that even a single Shadow Bolt already gives 25.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenexis View Post
    More fun for me. Yay! I kind of like the demo changes. Although Dark Soul is still going to be like Demon Soul: Macroed to meta.
    Macroed to GoServ at least.

  4. #44
    I would have hoped that DF would be more in line with existing resources, so perhaps capped at 100.
    Though the value of 25 from shadow bolt does throw that idea out the window.
    Maybe the value it generates is simply picked out the air, or it has for some reason a large number.

  5. #45
    Well, Wild Imps already costs 100 DF and generates 250(i think. Or maybe it generates 50 and each imp only casts two bolts, but that would be kind of weird).

    They probably have a somewhat bigger resource pool than rogues so you aren't constantly swapping in and out of Meta every 10 seconds, which would get annoying fast.
    Scaling everything down to 1/10 would make it a lot harder to balance. SB alone would require a 20% change in the amount of fury it generates to fit in that system, or you would have skills which generate .5 fury, which makes the entire change pointless.

  6. #46
    If you look, most of the core spells in our rotation will be giving DF equal to the base cast time of the spell in seconds multiplied by 10.

    2.5 second Shadow Bolt - 25 DF
    1.5 second Shadowflame - 15 DF
    4.0 second Soul Fire (before decimation) - 40 DF
    Hand of Gul'dan (25) and Corruption (12 per tick) give weird values, but those are almost kind of expected.

    I expect that Meta will have a much higher uptime than before, considering that it won't really be giving the same monstrous damage boost it does today. It focuses more on giving you extreme mobility, utility, and survivability for the duration.

    So my guess-timations put it at probably having a duration in seconds equal to the amount of DF you have divided by 10 (you spend 2.5 seconds casting shadow bolt, you get 2.5 seconds of DF stored up). The cap would probably be around 600 so as to give you the ability to store up a full minute of Meta if you'd like.

  7. #47
    Frankly, i don't think Meta itself will actually have a duration. You'll just run out of things to do once you have no DF left, as most spells turn into DF spenders while in Meta, only Bane of Doom, Corruption, Hand of Gul'dan and Soul Fire do not.
    Bane and Corruption are DoTs, so constantly casting them is pointless, Hand is limited use, and Soul Fire will have 4s cast time after the first unless the target is <25%.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Frankly, i don't think Meta itself will actually have a duration. You'll just run out of things to do once you have no DF left, as most spells turn into DF spenders while in Meta, only Bane of Doom, Corruption, Hand of Gul'dan and Soul Fire do not.
    Bane and Corruption are DoTs, so constantly casting them is pointless, Hand is limited use, and Soul Fire will have 4s cast time after the first unless the target is <25%.
    I could see that happening, actually. Provided that Demonic Slash is a DF spender. Would also give permanent meta for execute which would be fun.

  9. #49
    ...am i the only one thinking of Fromsoftware

    they are turnung
    Demon Soul(s) youtube . com/watch?v=msOWRdJ_slM&feature=relmfu
    into the sequel
    Dark Soul(s) youtube . com/watch?v=dYh8phZ4Dvw&feature=relmfu

    just got to love blizzard


    aside from that, it fixes the stupit pet-swapping. hence the redising(about time if you ask me^^)
    Last edited by Lessal; 2012-02-18 at 03:08 AM.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Lessal View Post
    aside from that, it fixes the stupit pet-swapping. hence the redising(about time if you ask me^^)
    Stupid is the length to summon a demon, it's TOO long. I am fed up to read those kind of comments because the main problem is not the possibility to swap. Possibility is a choice, a decision.

    If the casting time was about 2.5 max then it's getting an improvement not a burden. In Mop there is nothing to facilitate the summoning, NOTHING. Why can't they adjust it... ? You don't want to wait until your pet is dead to change him, in pvp situation, or when you need some PvE adaptations ( flying or not, aoe or single )

    Pet swap is not a pain or stupid, but devs are.

  11. #51
    Pet swapping due to demon soul was stupid, and that is where the issue was.
    Pets became simply a dps tool, and in select cases using a specific pet proved way too good compared to others and put utility on the back-burner.

    Yes I agree that the limiting of shards to affliction does remove a lot of options, especially the on-demand utility that shards offered.
    The "replacements" if you can call them that found in other specs tend to be more reactive, and in the case of the instant demon summon in demonology is reliant on the death of it first and has double the cooldown effectively.
    It is simply not consistent.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    Pet swapping due to demon soul was stupid, and that is where the issue was.
    Actually, it's just like a felguard sacrifice effect for 20 sec only + another pet. It's not stupid. The stupid are those who are abusing of interpretations... like the 3/31/7 case, actually. Pet swap isn't a obligation, it's not a OP burst, it's just some hundred dps for only 20 sec over the classic one. Don't overreact.

    But I already foresee your reaction if Goserv + Demo DarkS > all other possibilities in MoP, even if it's a 10 dps increase. But if GoSacrifice > all, by 1 K dps, you'll think " it's fine ". Foreseen as intended.....

    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    Pets became simply a dps tool, and in select cases using a specific pet proved way too good compared to others and put utility on the back-burner.
    Pet is a warlock feature. Decision making is worth more than a poor gameplay. Pet swapping is fine, devs suck.
    Last edited by Paraclef; 2012-02-18 at 10:42 AM.

  13. #53
    If the system was fine, why are blizzard changing it ?
    Pets are meant to be a choice for utility, and not forced upon us simply for dps purposes.
    They should be close enough in dps that we actually get to choose.

    That is why pet switching at a moments notice will not be the feature it is now.

    Exactly the same problem as MWC with meta, where having to line up multiple cooldowns and wait one one out simply because it was too good not to.
    Last edited by ComputerNerd; 2012-02-18 at 11:01 AM.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Paraclef View Post
    Pet is a warlock feature. Decision making is worth more than a poor gameplay. Pet swapping is fine, devs suck.
    lets reword my prior statment:
    petswapping as it is feels clunky and is therefore not really fun. just a slightly off timing it even results in a dps loss.
    the main problem of course is that the felpuppy nowadays doas way more dmg then was originally planned with cata releese and it semmd naturally to link DS to a pet.

    the new solution of de-linking that (as is is planned at least) results in more fluid gameplay. and still leaves it possible to choose your pet accordiung to the the encounter or at least personal preference.
    wich in my eyes is more fun then clunky petswapping that results in minimally more dps.

    edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by Paraclef View Post
    But I already foresee your reaction if Goserv + Demo DarkS > all other possibilities in MoP, even if it's a 10 dps increase. But if GoSacrifice > all, by 1 K dps, you'll think " it's fine ". Foreseen as intended.....
    i see yoiur argument and yes i fear exactly this.
    still it should give room to make the choice of youre pet an actual choice -> stll better by far then the old model
    Last edited by Lessal; 2012-02-18 at 11:39 AM.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Paraclef View Post
    Pet is a warlock feature. Decision making is worth more than a poor gameplay. Pet swapping is fine, devs suck.
    Depends on context. Switching for utility, even if that utility is AoE is cool. Switching for a DPS cooldown only to switch pets back again almost immediately is retarded.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Depends on context. Switching for utility, even if that utility is AoE is cool. Switching for a DPS cooldown only to switch pets back again almost immediately is retarded.
    Agreed. Although I think the Felguard should have more meaning than a simple AoE pet. Pet swapping in PvE is quite retarded, unlike pet swapping in PvP which is really awesome (in Demo and Destro). You actually swap around based on the situation. For example:
    You're fighting against a healer with interrupt immunity, so you quickly switch to Felguard or Succubus in order to stun/bump the healer, thus preventing him from casting when his anti-interrupt is active.

    Another scenario is when you want to go into defensive formation and choose the succubus or imp to control 2 targets at a time or dispel an ally that is hindered by a magical effect (Unstable Affliction, Poly/Fear/Freezing Trap, Strangulate).

    Now that is what I call pet swapping, and it should be the case in PvE.

  17. #57
    In pvp we swap pets to gain utility, be it the buffs or more usually their activated abilities.
    In pve it has so far been to up our contribution on the damage meters in most circumstances.

    The problem with switching in pve for utility is that there are typically others who do the job better and without the need to "prepare" or blow a cooldown to do it.
    Yes there are times as destruction in a dungeon I have switched to a demon other than the imp, particularly the felhunter for a silence but it is clumsy compared to the majority who have their utilities as baseline and without the need for extra work to get them out.

  18. #58
    Demonic Fury caps at 1000
    Drains at a rate of 6 per second passively
    Abilities cost 40-50 fury per second of use

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sockmaster View Post
    If you look, most of the core spells in our rotation will be giving DF equal to the base cast time of the spell in seconds multiplied by 10.

    2.5 second Shadow Bolt - 25 DF
    1.5 second Shadowflame - 15 DF
    4.0 second Soul Fire (before decimation) - 40 DF
    Hand of Gul'dan (25) and Corruption (12 per tick) give weird values, but those are almost kind of expected.

    I expect that Meta will have a much higher uptime than before, considering that it won't really be giving the same monstrous damage boost it does today. It focuses more on giving you extreme mobility, utility, and survivability for the duration.

    So my guess-timations put it at probably having a duration in seconds equal to the amount of DF you have divided by 10 (you spend 2.5 seconds casting shadow bolt, you get 2.5 seconds of DF stored up). The cap would probably be around 600 so as to give you the ability to store up a full minute of Meta if you'd like.
    we may not get to build fury while in meta
    It was never Hardcore Vs Casual. It was Socialites Vs. Solo players
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    World of Warcraft started life as a Computer Roleplaying Game, where part of the fun of the game experience was pretending to be your character. Stuff like applying poisons and eating food enhanced the verisimilitude of the experience of playing a fantasy character in another world. Now that game has changed to become a tactical arcade lobby game.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
    Demonic Fury caps at 1000
    Drains at a rate of 6 per second passively
    Abilities cost 40-50 fury per second of use
    Are you trying to say it is that way right now, is that what you think it will be or are you just pulling stuff out of your posterior?
    Elaborate, please.

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