1. #1
    Mechagnome Kildragon's Avatar
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    Consolidating buffs and debuffs in MoP

    So since Blizz has said that they again want to focus more on bring the player not the class, they are reducing the number of buffs and debuffs in game. Since these buffs and debuffs seem to be fairly set in place, I'll be compiling a list of all the buffs, debuffs, and abilities/CD's that a lot of classes share (dispel, interrupt, etc.) This is not meant to criticize anything Blizz is doing right now, but is meant to simply give a comprehensive list of the new buffs and such, that we will be seeing in MoP. Any additions that I might have missed are greatly appreciated, and I will be adding them to the OP.

    Disclaimer: This is a work in progress, and as MoP is not even in Beta yet, all of these abilities may be subject to change and may not be in the talent calculator correctly

    Buffs

    - Increases Strength and Agility by 631; Death Knights (Horn of Winter)
    - Increases Strength, Agility, Stamina, and Intellect by 5%; Druids (Mark of the Wild), Paladins (Blessing of Kings)
    - Increases Spell Haste by 5%; Balance Druids (Moonkin Aura), Shadow Priests (Shadowform)
    - Increases Ranged and Melee Attack Speed by 10%; Rogues (Swiftblade's Cunning), Survival Hunters (Hunting Party)
    - Increases Critical Strike Chance by 5%; Feral Druids, Guardian Druids (Leader of the Pack)
    - Increases Mastery by 5 (not % but actual 5 mastery points); Paladins (Blessing of Might), Shamans (Grace of Air)
    - Increases Spell Power by 10%; Shamans (Burning Wrath), Mages (Arcane Brilliance), Warlocks (Dark Intent)
    - Increases Melee and Ranged Attack Power by 10%; Marksman Hunters (Trueshot Aura), Warriors (Battleshout)
    - Increases Stamina Points; Warlocks (Imp: Blood Pact), Warriors (Commanding Shout), Priests (PW: Fortitude)
    - Bloodlust/Heroism; Mages, BM Hunters, Shamans

    - Removed all resistance buffs
    - Removed single target Warlock DI
    - Removed Paladin Auras
    - Removed Shaman Buff Totems, replaced with passive benefits that work like Moonkin Aura
    - Reverted the 20% buff to AP for melee, now back to 10% for both Ranged and Melee

    It seems like Horn of Winter will most likely be changed to fall in line with Leader of the Pack from ferals, as having a single class provide such a buff won't happen. Also, we do not know where hunter pets will fall with this.

    Debuffs

    - Reducing Physical Damage dealt by 10%; Blood Death Knights (Scarlet Fever), Feral Druids (Thrash)
    - Increasing Physical Damage taken by 4%; Frost Death Knights (Brittle Bones), Unholy Death Knights (Ebon Plaguebringer), Fury & Arms Warriors (Colossus Smash), Ret Paladins (Judgements of the Bold)
    - Reducing Movement Speed by 60%; Death Knights (Chains of Ice)
    - Reducing Movement Speed by 50%; Feral Druids (Infected Wounds), Hunters (Concussive Shot)
    - Reducing Casting Speed by 30%; Death Knights (Necrotic Strike)
    - Reduces Armor by 4%, stacks up to 3 times; Druids (Faerie Fire), Warriors (Devastate/Sunder), Rogues (Expose Armor)

    - Removed 5% Crit Debuff; Fire Mages and Warlocks
    - Removed 3% Damage Increase; Ret Paladins, Arcane Mages and BM Hunters

    Interrupts

    - 5 Second Interrupt, 15 Second Cooldown; Rogues (Kick)
    - 4 Second Interrupt, 15 Second Cooldown; Death Knights (Mind Freeze)
    - 4 Second Interrupt, 10 Second Cooldown, 13 Yard Range; Feral Druids, Guardian Druids (Skull Bash)

    Dispels

    - Dispel all Enrage Effects; Druid
    - Dispel one Enrage Effect, 10 Second CD; Rogue (Shiv)
    - Remove all Curse and Poison Effects, 8 Sec CD; Balance Druids
    - Remove all Magic, Curse, and Poison Effects, 8 Sec CD; Restoration Druids
    - Remove one Magic Effect, 6 Sec CD; Warlocks (Imp: Singe Magic)
    - Purge 1 Beneficial Magic Effect, 12 Sec CD on live; Warlocks (Felhunter: Devour Magic)

    Crowd Control

    Death Knights
    Strangulate: 5 Sec Silence, 30 yard range, 2 Min CD
    Death Grip: 30 Yard Range, 35 Sec CD

    Druids
    Bear Hug: 3 Sec Stun, Deals 10% of Druids health every sec, Immobilizes Druid, Melee Range, 1 Min CD
    Hibernate: Hibernates Beast and Dragonkin for 40 Sec, Breaks on damage, 1.5 Sec Cast, 30 Yard Range
    Cyclone: Prevents all action for 6 Sec, 1.7 Sec Cast, 20 Yard Range
    Pounce: Stuns the target for 4 Sec, Must be Prowling, Melee Range, 50 Energy
    Maim: 1 Sec Stun per Combo Point, Melee Range, 35 Energy, 10 Sec CD
    Solar Beam: Silences in area, 10 Sec Duration, 40 Yard Range, 1 Min CD, Balance Druids only

    Hunters

    Scatter Shot: 4 Sec Disorient, 20 Yard Range, 30 Sec CD
    Last edited by Kildragon; 2012-02-17 at 02:10 AM.

  2. #2
    I've had a look through and compiled the following list, focusing on the Raid Buffs/Debuffs. Feel free to adds the one's you've missed.


    Buffs(on Players)
    10% Spell damage - Shamans(Burning Wrath), Mages(Arcane Brilliance)
    10% Ranged and Melee Attack Power Buff - Warriors(Battleshout),Hunters:Marksmanship(Trueshot Aura)
    10% Ranged and Melee speed Buff - Rogues(Swiftblade cunning)
    Increased Stamina pts Buff - Warriors(Command shout),Warlocks(Imp),Priests(PW: Fortitude)
    5% mastery buff - Shamans(Grace of Air),Paladins(Bless of might)
    5% str,agi,stam,int - Paladins(Blessing of kings),Druids(Blessing of the Wild)
    5% crit buff - Druid:Feral+Guardian(Leader of the Pack)
    5% Haste - Druid:Balance(Moonkin Aura), Priest:Shadow(Shadowform)
    Increased Str + Agi - DK(Horn of winter)


    Debuffs(on Target)
    10% Reduced Physical Debuff - Warriors(Thunderclap),Paladins:Protection+Retribution(Hammer of the righteous),Death Knight(Blood:Scarlet Fever)
    12% Reduced Armor Debuff - Warriors (Sunder, Devastate), Druid(Faire Fire),Rogues(Expose Armor),
    8% increased magical damage debuff - Warlocks (CoE)
    4% increased damage - Death Knight:Frost(Ebon Plaguebringer), Death Knight:Unholy(Brittle Bones)

  3. #3
    Mechagnome Kildragon's Avatar
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    Thanks for the input Tipton.

    I also want to point out that any other help is appreciated as it makes my life a lot easier.

    I also want to encourage discussion amongst people as to what this might mean for the future of raid comps in terms of buffs. Also once I complete the spec/class ability list of CC without including the additional CC from talents, it will be interesting to see how such things will play out in PvP.

    Druids for example will be very strong seeing as how right now a Resto Druid changing to kitty form to DPS was not very viable which will change with the buff to performing offspec roles. I could definitely see a RDruid leaving combat, prowling in order to pounce, do some feral damage and immediately swap to caster form for the 30% bigger heal in PvP. It's just one example but I'm interested to see what you guys can come up with.

  4. #4
    - 5 Second Interrupt, 15 Second Cooldown; Rogues (Kick)
    - Dispel one Enrage Effect; Rogues (Shiv)
    - Remove one harmful Magic effect from an ally: Warlocks (Imp: Singe Magic) [no CD shown in MoP talent calculator, on live it's 6s]
    - Remove one beneficial Magic effect from an enemy: Warlocks (Felhunter: Devour Magic) [no CD shown in MoP talent calculator, on live it's 15s]
    Last edited by capitano666; 2012-02-16 at 11:36 PM.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Tipton View Post
    4% increased damage - Death Knight:Frost(Ebon Plaguebringer), Death Knight:Unholy(Brittle Bones)
    Actually, that's backwards. Brittle Bones is Frost, Ebon Plaguebringer is Unholy. The debuff is also brought by Arms Warriors through Hul... er, Colossus Smash.

    Survival Hunters also still provide 10% physical haste, in addition to Rogues.

    Armor Reduction is also brought by Warriors(Devastate/Sunder) and Rogues(Expose Armor) in addition to Druids.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Tipton View Post
    I've had a look through and compiled the following list, focusing on the Raid Buffs/Debuffs. Feel free to adds the one's you've missed.


    Buffs(on Players)
    10% Spell damage - Shamans(Burning Wrath), Mages(Arcane Brilliance)
    10% Ranged and Melee Attack Power Buff - Warriors(Battleshout),Hunters:Marksmanship(Trueshot Aura)
    10% Ranged and Melee speed Buff - Rogues(Swiftblade cunning)
    Increased Stamina pts Buff - Warriors(Command shout),Warlocks(Imp),Priests(PW: Fortitude)
    5% mastery buff - Shamans(Grace of Air),Paladins(Bless of might)
    5% str,agi,stam,int - Paladins(Blessing of kings),Druids(Blessing of the Wild)
    5% crit buff - Druid:Feral+Guardian(Leader of the Pack)
    5% Haste - Druid:Balance(Moonkin Aura), Priest:Shadow(Shadowform)
    Increased Str + Agi - DK(Horn of winter)


    Debuffs(on Target)
    10% Reduced Physical Debuff - Warriors(Thunderclap),Paladins:Protection+Retribution(Hammer of the righteous),Death Knight(Blood:Scarlet Fever)
    12% Reduced Armor Debuff - Warriors (Sunder, Devastate), Druid(Faire Fire),Rogues(Expose Armor),
    8% increased magical damage debuff - Warlocks (CoE)
    4% increased damage - Death Knight:Frost(Ebon Plaguebringer), Death Knight:Unholy(Brittle Bones)
    Ret paladins now have 4% physical damage and survival hunters have 10% ranged/melee haste still too. Also demo warlocks have 10% spell power still too.
    Mohots---Main
    Molife ---Alt
    Monopaly---Alt/old Main

  7. #7
    Thanks Huth. Yup it's Hunting Party from Survival Hunters. Both Arms and Fury can do the 4% damage from Hulk Smash. I agree that Horn of Winter will probably end up giving the Melee Ranged haste as well.

    Some more of the buffs/debuffs that are gone
    5% Crit debuff (Scorch, Improved Shadowbolt)
    3% Damage increase (Arcane Mages, Rogue)
    Armor buffs (Paladin, Shaman)
    Boss Attack Speed Slow (All tanks) (This was confirmed at Blizzcon).
    It looks if Mana Regen has gone as well.

    Edit: Thanks - Yup Ret Paladins have Judgement of the Bold for 4% more physical damage. Dark Intent gives 10% spell power, but all warlocks can give it.

    So in MoP, it's possible to cover all the buffs/debuffs with just five classes:
    Arms Warrior - 10% attack power, 4% damage
    Ret Paladin/Shaman - 5% mastery
    Feral Druid - 5% crit, 5% to all stats
    Shadow Priest - +Stamina, 5% spell haste
    Shaman/warlock - 10% Spellpower

    This is with still a lot of buffs to be given out (Mages are looking a bit underwhelming at the moment).
    Last edited by Tipton; 2012-02-17 at 12:15 AM.

  8. #8
    Mechagnome Kildragon's Avatar
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    I find it curious that Death Knights have the worst interrupt currently, with a 15 sec CD and only a 4 sec interrupt

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Kildragon View Post
    I find it curious that Death Knights have the worst interrupt currently, with a 15 sec CD and only a 4 sec interrupt
    So you didn't look at what the others have?

  10. #10
    I think the 15 sec 30% crit buff that the new Warrior ability 'war banner' is going to bring deserves a mention in the buffs section. It basically is another heroism, although I have no clue if they plan to give it to other classes as well.

  11. #11
    The 30% Crit for 15 Seconds is a bit on it's own at the moment. If it was 40 seconds, I'd expect it to share a cooldown with Heroism. But 15 seconds? It must have it's own cooldown and be shared with other classes.

    Some thoughts on the number of players to cover the debuffs/buffs. 5 sounds the optimal number for covering all buffs, down from 7 classes in Cataclysm. This is the way the buffs are looking (assuming Horn of Winter will get changed).

    In 10 man it will be virtually impossible not to cover all the buffs/debuffs.

    5 is the perfect number to balance it around the new speed 5 man running feature.

  12. #12
    A few things you missed or may want to change to keep track of easier:

    Rogues also have a cast speed reduction via Mind-Numbing Poison (and an enhanced version via Shiv) and since you can have 1 lethal and 1 non-lethal poison active at the same time you won't really be sacrificing damage to do so.

    You're missing a lot of CC, but I'm sure you noticed it clipped off.

    Lastly I would separate dispels into specific categories instead of listing what each dispel does. List all classes that can dispel Curses, then all that can dispel Poisons, etc. instead of grouping them together. Mages, Balance Druids, and Resto Shamans can remove Curses for example. All spec Shamans, Priests, Hunters and Mages can also remove 1 beneficial magic effect from an enemy (Purge, Dispel Magic, Tranquilizing Shot, Spellsteal). Hunters can also dispel an enrage effect with Tranq Shot.

    I'm not gonna list everything since it'd take a while to run through all the classes, but those are a few in those non-buff/debuff categories you don't have listed.

  13. #13
    Blue post now on mmo-champion homepage about Skull Bash says: "The current talent calculator says that it has a 10 second cooldown, but that is a mistake. It is 15 seconds like most other interrupts are now."
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Tipton View Post
    The 30% Crit for 15 Seconds is a bit on it's own at the moment. If it was 40 seconds, I'd expect it to share a cooldown with Heroism. But 15 seconds? It must have it's own cooldown and be shared with other classes.

    Some thoughts on the number of players to cover the debuffs/buffs. 5 sounds the optimal number for covering all buffs, down from 7 classes in Cataclysm. This is the way the buffs are looking (assuming Horn of Winter will get changed).

    In 10 man it will be virtually impossible not to cover all the buffs/debuffs.

    5 is the perfect number to balance it around the new speed 5 man running feature.
    First, apologies for digging up a bit old thread.

    Second, looking at the buff list I'm almost certain that hunter pets will still provide many of the buffs they currently do: Agi/Str (cat), 5% crit (wolf/devilsaur) and 8% spell damage debuff (dragonhawk/windserpent). Main reason to believe that is the fact that those 3 buffs are otherwise covered with single class only, and it's more likely explanation than Blizzard making a mistake and just leaving old buffs visible on list of new abilities.

    What comes to Tipton's comment on being virtually impossible to not have all buffs: 5% caster haste wants to say hi. Giving such valuable buff only to 2 rather rare specs only is going to be major headache for 10man raiding. I honestly hope there will be someone bit more common char providing that buff. Monk could be it, but they aren't exactly the class I'd expect to be buffing casters.

    To look things from another perspective, this is what melees need:
    - 4% physical damage taken, provided by DK, Paladin or Warrior in their dps specs, total 5 specs, pretty easy to get.
    - 12% reduced armor, provided by every druid, rogue and warrior, total 10 specs, very easy to get.
    - str/agi buff, provided by DK or hunter pet, total 6 specs. Can be tricky if hunter pet is needed for something else already.
    - 5% stats, provided by druid or paladin, total 7 specs, easy to get. In emergency, even hunter pet can do it.
    - 10% haste, provided by rogue or surv hunter, only 4 specs. Can be hard to get. I expect to see Monk bring this.
    - 5% crit, provided by cat/bear druid or hunter pet, total 5 specs. Can be very tricky if hunter pet is needed for something else already.
    - 10% attack power, provided by warrior or mm hunter, only 4 specs. Could be hard to get, although Warriors are common.
    - 5 mastery, provided by paladin or shaman, 6 specs, should be easy enough to get.
    - stamina, provided by priest, warrior and even some warlocks, easy to get.
    So overall for melees, there are couple tough buffs, but monk being mainly a melee char will likely help out on the buff coverage.

    For casters, similar view:
    - 8% spell damage taken, provided by warlock or hunter pet, total 6 specs. This can be pain. Pet doing debuff isn't fast or even reliable. And hunters prefer other pets.
    - 5% stats, provided by druid or paladin, total 7 specs, should be easy. In emergency, even hunter pet can do it.
    - 5% haste, provided by balance druid or shadow priest, only 2 specs that are among the rare ones to begin with. This desperately needs more providers.
    - 5% crit, provided by cat/bear druid or hunter pet, total 5 specs. Can be very tricky if hunter pet is needed for something else already.
    - 10% spell power, provided by mage, shaman, warlock, total 9 specs. From the rarest buff in game to one of easiest ones to get.
    - 5 mastery, provided by paladin or shaman, 6 specs, should be easy enough to get.
    - stamina, provided by priest, warrior and even some warlocks, easy to get.
    Interestingly enough, casters only have 7 buffs/debuffs while melees need 9. In terms of difficulty, both roles share the trouble of getting 5% crit, but casters are really getting shafted with the 5% haste.

    Finally, from class perspective. The rule was, don't bring the class, bring the player. Except we still need to bring the class:
    - DK provides 4% physical damage (frost/unholy) and Str/Agi buff (all specs), combat rez
    - Druid provides 12% lowered armor (all specs), 5% stats (all specs), 5% spell haste (balance), 5% crit (cat/bear), combat rez
    - Hunter provides 10% attack power (mm), 10% melee/ranged haste (surv), and legion of pet buffs to pick 1 from if they're not removed from game (agi/str, 5% crit, 8% spell dmg, 4% physical damage, 12% reduced armor) with few more choices if they're BM specced (bloodlust, 5% stats, stamina)
    - Mage provides 10% spell power (all specs), bloodlust (all specs)
    - Paladin provides 4% physical damage (retri), 5% stats or 5 mastery (all specs)
    - Priest provides stamina (all specs), 5% spell haste (shadow)
    - Rogue provides 12% lowered armor (all specs), 10% physical haste (all specs)
    - Shaman provides 10% spell power (all specs), 5 mastery (all specs), bloodlust (all specs)
    - Warlock provides 8% spell damage (all specs), 10% spell power (all specs), stamina (destro?), combat rez
    - Warrior provides 4% physical damage (arms/fury), 12% lowered armor (all specs), stamina or 10% attack power (all specs), skull banner (all specs)
    Using purely scientific measurement of a ruler on the description lengths above: bring a hunter, warrior and non-resto druid and you've got a massive head start to having all buffs. On the opposite end of the scale, priests really need some love on buff front. Mages are almost as bad since their buffs are far from rare. Rogues can only be replaced with Surv Hunter so that's a safe raid spot unless Monks barge in.

    ---------- Post added 2012-03-05 at 11:37 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tipton View Post
    So in MoP, it's possible to cover all the buffs/debuffs with just five classes:
    Arms Warrior - 10% attack power, 4% damage
    Ret Paladin/Shaman - 5% mastery
    Feral Druid - 5% crit, 5% to all stats
    Shadow Priest - +Stamina, 5% spell haste
    Shaman/warlock - 10% Spellpower
    That setup would still be missing 10% haste, so you need to add rogue or surv hunter. You also missed 8% spell damage debuff, but picking Warlock for 10% sp covers that too. In addition, if the agi/str buff stays in game, you'll need DK or hunter for it. Finally, you'll most likely want bloodlust, which then requires a shaman for the 5 mastery. So as minimum, add surv hunter as the 6th guy, pick shaman for mastery/bloodlust/spellpower and warlock for 8% spell dmg/combat res/spellpower.

    Even though the number of buffs and debuffs is going down a lot from Cata to MoP, so does the amount of buffs per class, so it doesn't seem to be any easier to get all buffs for a 10 man group still. Still need to bring the class, not the player. Mages and Priests really could use some love. I hope they spread the 5% haste to all priest specs and give mages 5% crit aura (and call it Brilliance Aura!). Monks hopefully come with a set of 10% haste, agi/str and 4% damage.
    Last edited by Borgoth; 2012-03-05 at 11:39 PM.

  15. #15
    Fury warriors bring 5% crit still don't they?

  16. #16
    Legendary! Gallahadd's Avatar
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    Prot/Ret Paladin(Hammer of the Righteous)/All specs of Warrior(Thunderclap): -10% melee Damage

    All paladins(Rebuke): 4 sec int 15sec CD

    a couple you've missed.


    also don't forget we'll have Monks, who no doubt will have a few buffs/debuffs of their own.

    I'm assuming ALL monks will bring the Str/Agi buff, because at the moment only DK's do. at LEAST Brewmasters will have the -10% Damage debuff, because they're a tank class, and it's a tank debuff, Healer spec Monks will probably bring some kind of caster buff, and from the list I'm guessing Dps Monks will bring the 5% crit buff, as that seems to be lacking.
    Last edited by Gallahadd; 2012-03-06 at 02:26 AM.
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  17. #17
    As far as raid comp goes, cutting down some of the buffs and debuffs means it's certainly possible to have a 10 man with everything short of spec-only buffs like Unholy Frenzy. Right now 10 mans can technically have everything, but only a handful of setups offer that. In MoP it's likely the raid will only miss one or two (de)buffs total unless they go out of their way to stack a certain class and spec.

    I like it. Making it possible to have all the buffs and debuffs with very different comps is a great thing.
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackinthegreen View Post
    As far as raid comp goes, cutting down some of the buffs and debuffs means it's certainly possible to have a 10 man with everything short of spec-only buffs like Unholy Frenzy. Right now 10 mans can technically have everything, but only a handful of setups offer that. In MoP it's likely the raid will only miss one or two (de)buffs total unless they go out of their way to stack a certain class and spec.

    I like it. Making it possible to have all the buffs and debuffs with very different comps is a great thing.
    also it will allow blizzard to more accurately balance dps checks between 10 and 25 as currently they balance 10's to "not have all buffs/debuffs" which makes several of the dps check bosses eg H:ultraxon/H:baelroc significantly easier for "we have all the buffs/debuffs" 10 man's compared to their 25 man versions, best example is H:Baelroc who's first heroic 25 kil was over 1 minute through the enrage timer when 10's was almost a minute before enrage.
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    What the fuck did you just say.

  19. #19
    Good job for compiling, but what blizzard did here literally makes me sick. Don't bring the class in a class based game? That's beyond idiotic. When multiple classes have the exact same buff, why don't you make it simpler and just remove all of the buffs and debuffs and then balance accordingly since your going to have them all anyways... fucking hell.

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