Is Recount needed for TOR?

[Feanor306]

Damage meters provide a great amount of information and in an MMO environment - information is power.

Not wanting damage meters in an MMO is like not wanting Internet because you can send paper mail to people anyway.

[Syldarin]

No. Leave the damage meters out of TOR. This will only lead to elitists and certain classes being ridiculed. Content is being downed, let it be.

This shows what many people have said for a long time. Myself included. TOR is a casual game with no real competition. Its for casual players who like to level 10 caracters and enjoy the scenery and story. End game? Nah - just lvl a new char.

Keep this up and TOR will be abandoned by 9 of 10 players in 2 months.

SW:TOR Leveling and non-competetive end game makes it as addictive and long lasting as a fresh apple. Sure it tastes great and looks fresh when you sink your teeth into it, but take a bite and do the same in a month, and you will get a rotten and bitter taste.

Just to avoid the incomming flame: A casual game is NOT a bad thing.It just wont last. And what a MMO really base its succes on, are subscribtions - which wont be renewed when people cant compete in end game.

[jackofwind]

SWTOR will need some form of recount if it's going to support competitive end-game PvE. This is my opinion, though I've already quit the game because I quickly got tired of the end-game experience provided at launch.

That being said, I think a valid point to bring up is that it has a huge Star Wars fanbase that have never played an MMO before - they don't know about competitive gear optimization and the stigma that comes with having made an incorrect choice. I think that a lot of people would be pushed away by the implementation of an objective standard that they are compared against (Parses).

From what I've experienced there are many players who see SWTOR as a sort of multiplayer KOTOR and they have issues with other people telling them how to play. In fact, you often hear 'Go back to WoW' or similar comments being made when someone points out the often glaringly obvious flaws in someone's optimization. This is, I believe, another reason why the game is breeding incompetence.

[Qwell]

Damage meters provide a great amount of information and in an MMO environment - information is power.

Not wanting damage meters in an MMO is like not wanting Internet because you can send paper mail to people anyway.

That's a cogent point

[Sephiracle]

If I had a choice between Recount and UI mods though. UI would win all the way.

[Xecks]

If I had a choice between Recount and UI mods though. UI would win all the way.

btw i am still waiting on carrie byron nudes.

[banur]

What would happen if you had recount would be this.

The people you raid/play with who are bad will be shown up and named and shamed and shunned away from your guild and labeled as bad players. They will then QQ and quit the game.

You will also have people on the same skill level saying X class is OP and Y class is shit @ doing Z role.

Recount would destroy SWTOR, well it wont destroy it, but it would make allot of players who are bad leave the game most likely.

True, but what do you do if you hit the wall during progression without the ability to tell what the problem is?

[Crashdummy]

In terms of the raids where the logs are most needed - hardmodes or their equivalent - adapting fast to mistakes is not actually a viable way to succeed. Players who raid hardmodes competitively already adapt fast, but perfect execution is necessary because many mechanics are very unforgiving and regardless of how well they adapt to a mistake, once the mistake is made it's often already too late.

There are mistakes that cant be overcome, i know.

But perfect execution is not needed in any fight. Every fight you can make little mistakes and overcome them. Some guilds make very few of this mistakes so overcoming them fast is not that much needed. Other guilds make more of these little mistakes, but they overcome they really fast.

In any way, the morale system dont seem to be a good idea.

[Hockeyhacker]

Like I said before in similar threads, to apease those who want something to help self improve but to make it so it doesn't directly effect people who may be good enough to do a instance/raid/etc getting kicked because some lazy person wants to do it 2 seconds faster and don't care the end result is the same, make a version of "recount" that only shows personal data and/or friends data who enable others who have the addon to see their data. If "friends only" option is to hard to code then self only would be better then everyone.

When used as a tool to figure out changes to improve ones own DPS it is a great tool to have, when used to figure out "who is making the fight take 1/10th of a second longer" it is being used for less then great things, so solo data only or if possible solo plus a white list of friends who may be helping you with your "rotations" and specs and what not would be a great way to get the benefits of it with minimizing the elitism it brings when any and everyone can see everyone elses data (which for the most part is slightly skewed as well and doesn't show the DPS increases that individual may be bringing to the rest the party).

[Dedweight]

Is recount needed? Definitely not. I would love a combat log though, dieing to nothing obvious and having no idea why sucks.

[clevin]

This is simple. The tool doesn't make people asshats, the people do. Yes, if you have an ingame meter some people will spam it, etc. But if you don't, you can't tell how you're doing. IN an operation, you can't tell that one DPS isn't pulling their weight, figure out why and help them (constructively). I don't see a way around meters of some sort if they want to make raids/ops at all hinge on player output. They could, of course, make ops that don't care about player output but that rely on other mechanics.

Now, here's the thing - you can use logs and a World of Logs style site to do this analysis post hoc. You don't NEED meters. But if you don't have ingame meters then it makes it way harder to say to someone "Hey, I noticed you're not using [Ability] in your rotation... that will help your DPS" and have them try it and get immediate feedback.

One thing I'd do differently than WoW, though, is only have meters measure DPS. Healing meters never were a good idea as HPS isn't a relevant measure of how good a healer is. Healer skill is easy to figure out - do their assigned players live? No? Were those players standing in fire (so to speak)? Yes? Talk to the players standing in fire. No? Talk to the healer. It's not QUITE that easy, but it's close.

Recount would destroy SWTOR, well it wont destroy it, but it would make allot of players who are bad leave the game most likely.

Er... what? How about the bad players who would realize they're underperfoming and finally have the tools and information to get better? Why would you WANT bad players who have no desire to improve to stay in the game? Sure, no one cares if they're bad when they solo, but in a group their badness affects others.

Personally, I'd want 1) a guild that is open to people asking questions no matter how basic, 2) a guild where people help others get etter and 3) a guild full of players who want to be competent. Maybe they want to min-max, maybe not, but I'd want players who, when they get in a group, want to be at least good at what they do. Why on earth would I want to encourage people who suck and don't care?

[Crashdummy]

What would happen if you had recount would be this.

The people you raid/play with who are bad will be shown up and named and shamed and shunned away from your guild and labeled as bad players. They will then QQ and quit the game.

You will also have people on the same skill level saying X class is OP and Y class is shit @ doing Z role.

Recount would destroy SWTOR, well it wont destroy it, but it would make allot of players who are bad leave the game most likely.

If thats what would happen in your guild, you should change to another guild.

Recount is not responsible for people being idiots. And saying you dont want recount so that you can live ignoring the people you are playing are idiots but its ok since they cant show how idiots they are is not a good argument. If i am playing with idiots (and i dont mean people who underperform, i mean people that are constantly naming and shaming others) then i would love to know it as soon as i can.

[kreb]

Believe it or not i like the mystery behind the failure, i like it when it is said "Guys we are supposed to improve our dps somehow till next ops so lets brain storm, instead of /o X and Y sucks try to recruit a new one till next ops". SWTOR is trying to promote the team play in every aspect, which will encourage more friendly environment inside guilds as well as server community. That is obviously being my opinion.

[Skuz]

People don't understand.. if there was a combat log.. then everyone would see how vastly different dps between classes. With it being a guessing game right now, they don't need to *fix* anything.

I would very much like to know how I'm doing for dps..but then I might find out that melee across the board does 25% less damage than ranged classes. Then, I won't be invited to Ops anymore.

It's more of a headache for EA/Bioware right now than it's worth. They have their hands full already with other bugs and fixes. This is an unnecessary game addition that could add to the player outrage.

[jayinjersey]

I hope they never add or allow a Recount sytle addon


All you really need is an exportable combat log so you can determine your own info later if you want.
No reason to record other people's numbers and such.

[Thundermoose]

It won't happen, I'm almost certain.

TOR has a big "casual" following and knowing how recount is often missused in WoW, it would be make the lesser skilled players leave in droves.

And by casual, I mean really casual. People who play the game after work to relax and have a bit of fun, not like the selfproclaimed casuals who plays 3-4 hours a day and still raid 3-4 days a week. ;-)

Personally I would like a recount, but I understand the reason not to and I won't leave the game because of it, because I quite simply didn't expect it when I bought it and I bought it anyway.

[Qwell]

It won't happen, I'm almost certain.

TOR has a big "casual" following and knowing how recount is often missused in WoW, it would be make the lesser skilled players leave in droves.

And by casual, I mean really casual. People who play the game after work to relax and have a bit of fun, not like the selfproclaimed casuals who plays 3-4 hours a day and still raid 3-4 days a week. ;-)

Personally I would like a recount, but I understand the reason not to and I won't leave the game because of it, because I quite simply didn't expect it when I bought it and I bought it anyway.

you know what they call Recount in France?

[Thundermoose]

Baguette?

Sorry, but my french is limited.

[Qwell]

Baguette?

Sorry, but my french is limited.

...oh i thought, considering your avatar, you were gonna say Royal with cheese. that's what i was baiting for anyway :P

[Thundermoose]

...oh i thought, considering your avatar, you were gonna say Royal with cheese. that's what i was baiting for anyway :P

Nooo, how did I miss that? You just made me sad, thanks! I'll go look up some emo tips on youtube and go crazy.