View Poll Results: Would you like to see an enhancement tanking spec?

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  • Yes

    309 36.27%
  • No

    402 47.18%
  • Maybe

    113 13.26%
  • N/A - Not applicable to me

    28 3.29%
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  1. #101
    i want to keep my melee dps, if they would go the route of the druid (4 specs) i would be all for it

  2. #102
    Legendary! Sorrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    No, we have Shields because originally we were the anti-Pally, as you said. Horde couldn't use Paladins, and without Shaman, Warrior would be the only other class that used Shields. That has since CHANGED, and as such the Shaman design can be something much more distinct (such as using DW instead of yet-another-2H-class).

    We never were seriously made into tanks any more than Paladins were. Vanilla tanking was primarily done with Warriors.
    Again we originally had tank in our class description. just because it wasn't always viable doesn't mean it wasn't ORIGINALLY INTENDED as part of our class. And as you said warriors were the main tanks not pallies or druids but i have heard of more than a few cases of shammies at least off tanking back then. Again we WERE conceived of as part tanks but that was abandoned LONG ago. Some of us merely want it back only viable this time.

  3. #103
    Pit Lord Protoman's Avatar
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    Firstly, adding another tank into the mix doesn't change anything. We already have a tank that wields shields, can use offensive magic, and can heal himself/use defensive magic: Paladins. It adds *nothing* new to the game. The only unique thing would be a tank that uses totems and/or pets/summons. (and why wasn't Warlock or Hunter made into tank instead, which would be dramatically more unique than Shaman? They use pets and summons too, but they don't use Shields or healing magic!)

    Also, yes, there IS a negative consequence: resources. Blizzard can only do so much. They can do a lot, but they can't do everything. It's why we still don't have a dance studio. It's why the race models aren't being updated. It's why Shaman, for the entirety of T13, has the worst interrupt in the game. It's why Enhancement is arguably the least-desired melee spec in arena and RBGs.
    Tanks don't have to be radically different from each other to work. Paladins may be magic shield tanks....but they could expand on our elemental shields or imbues, incorporate more totems similar to how monks have their statues, and we could have some unique cd's that involve turning into a super earth elemental or something lol. Shaman tank makes sense because we saw them offtanking in the past in vanilla, with a little more creativity they could easily evolve that into a full fledged tank spec. Hunter/lock tank might be "more unique", but it would look pretty ridiculous, but a shaman tank is actually something that sounds reasonable and not too far fetched.

    Shamans have the best interrupt in game, 6 sec cd and ranged? Every other melee class is jealous of that. And yes, resources are limited....but if I have to choose between them designing a 4th tank spec for shaman, or a pet battle mini game, I would def choose the tank spec. Updating character models is easy.....but blizz is just lazy and their lame excuse is "fans like the old models and we don't want to upset them". You have seen updated character models for important npcs like thrall or sylvanas.....it's within their power but they don't want to do it, prob cause they want to save it for another xpac so they can market it to get people interested again.

    The heart and soul of any MMO is their classes.....whatever you do in the game, pvp, pve, professions, roleplay....it all revolves around the class you play. The best thing WoW can do for their game to bring interest back is to revamp some of their classes and make them new and interesting again. Shaman tank is something you have seen people argue since BC.....you don't see a significant group of hunters, mages, and locks asking for a tank or healer spec, but shaman tank has been a popular suggestion.

    I know it won't happen.....but only cause Blizz is too lazy to put any effort into pleasing their customers. Designing it would be simple, coding and programming would be the hardest part, and balancing would be easy once its implemented and beta testers can provide feedback. They have the money, player interest in the game is going down, if they were smart they would put some money back into the game to try and develop things the playerbase really wants.....like revamp old classes, new character models, unique bg's and more balanced pvp....but they will resort to gimmicks like pet battles instead. Any good ideas we have will simply be stolen and given to Monks (just like DK's basically replaced enhance in prev xpac) .....their statues are alot like our totems, and what could have worked for a shaman tank will now be for the monk.

  4. #104
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Protoman View Post
    Tanks don't have to be radically different from each other to work.
    You're missing the point. Blizzard doesn't want to add something to the game unless it is distinct from what is already in the game. Shaman tanking would not be distinct enough from Paladins and would actually move Shaman back TOWARDS the role of being the anti-Pally, something Blizzard has actively avoided since TBC.

    ---------- Post added 2012-02-20 at 08:00 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Protoman View Post
    Shamans have the best interrupt in game, 6 sec cd and ranged?
    When talented. No Enhance or Resto Shaman talents that for PvE. I'm not sure about Ele, but I bet if they do get Reverb, the only reason is that they have no better place to put the points. When not talented, it has the longest CD and the shortest lockout, thus making it the worst. It's only advantage is being a ranged interrupt (big whoop, doesn't matter in PvE).

    Luckily, Blizz decided to implement the most boring fights ever with T13, and so interrupts, (or, in fact, utility of any kind), are not required.
    Last edited by DrakeWurrum; 2012-02-21 at 02:02 AM.
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  5. #105
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    You're missing the point. Blizzard doesn't want to add something to the game unless it is distinct from what is already in the game. Shaman tanking would not be distinct enough from Paladins and would actually move Shaman back TOWARDS the role of being the anti-Pally, something Blizzard has actively avoided since TBC.
    We have shields, but we also wear mail, meaning armor wouldn't be our main damage reduction source. Our gear is also Agility-oriented. We might use a shield, but a tank spec could just as easily be a dodge/parry oriented Agility tank, focused on using two-handers (and squash both the Enh tanking AND two-hander demands with one fell swoop).

    That said, the real reason it's unlikely is that it would involve a lot of work, for essentially no benefit to non-Shamans. If they're adding a new class (or a new spec to every class, which is a possibility now that Druids have 4 separate specs), THEN it bears considering which to make DPS or tank or heals, but only from the idea that you're adding that fourth spec or new class to increase variation in the classes. That's what's going on with Monks, for instance.

    It would NOT make for more tanks. They added DKs with that thought, with three tank specs at the time, and the dearth of tanks was not in any way reduced. People weren't playing tanks because they didn't WANT to tank.

    That's why they went after the problem in 5-mans with the Call to Arms system, to provide tanks extra rewards, and THAT seems to have helped. Just adding a new tank spec does absolutely no benefit in this regard, though.

  6. #106
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    I don't think Agi-using Mail-wearers, on it's own, would make it distinct, either. There needs to be a distinct playstyle, a distinct feel, from how the other Shield-wielding tanks function. They already have a hard time of just making Paladins and Warriors different.

    (hell, for that matter: Would Blizz need to add Agi shields, or would the Shaman tank be an Int tank? Or would Blizz add Str Mail? Or would a passive ability in the Shaman tank tree let us use Plate? It would at least be more distinct as an Int tank, but then it would share gear with healers and Ele/Resto, which caster Shaman don't need...Not any more than we need another Str tank)
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    That would be cool, but I was originally saying changing the enhancement tree to be a tanking specific tree instead of damage. A 4th tree like the druid would be a sweet thing though, although i think other classes would be jealous and mad.
    Changing the enhancement tree from dmg to tanking? you serious? would be the same when you say take away the arms spec from warriors for a healing spec....i loled

    I vote NO especially when you suggest to take away our loved enhancement spec...

  8. #108
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    I don't think Agi-using Mail-wearers, on it's own, would make it distinct, either. There needs to be a distinct playstyle, a distinct feel, from how the other Shield-wielding tanks function. They already have a hard time of just making Paladins and Warriors different.

    (hell, for that matter: Would Blizz need to add Agi shields, or would the Shaman tank be an Int tank? Or would Blizz add Str Mail? Or would a passive ability in the Shaman tank tree let us use Plate? It would at least be more distinct as an Int tank, but then it would share gear with healers and Ele/Resto, which caster Shaman don't need...Not any more than we need another Str tank)
    Shaman play different from Paladins by default. So a Shaman tank spec would also play differently from a Paladin tank spec by default, based purely on class mechanics already in the game.

    As for how it would be geared, you can keep it Agi-based, and give it two-handed weapons. As Endus said, that would knock out the 2H Shaman and the Tank Shaman minorities in one blow. Oh, and there's plenty of 2H agility weapons in the game.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2012-02-21 at 06:21 PM.

  9. #109
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Shaman play different from Paladins by default. So a Shaman tank spec would also play differently from a Paladin tank spec by default, based purely on class mechanics already in the game.
    Impossible to know, 100%, since the design behind Shaman tanking is not in the game, nor has Blizzard ever given a statement about how they would design it.

    Take a look at Paladins and Warriors, and you could just assume "Hey, they'll play different!" but in the end, they are VERY alike. It's hard to design a Shield-based tank in more than one way.
    If they make us an Agi 2hander tank (which wouldn't work since we can't wield Polearms right now, though I guess they could finally make Agi Staves again, now that Hunters won't wield melee weapons), how would we be different from Druids and Monks? You can't begin to assume that we would be uniquely distinct, as it's a problem Blizzard constantly struggles with... and I don't mean just tanks, I mean EVERY class that has a similar identity, and I guarantee they have way more experience in class design than you do.
    Last edited by DrakeWurrum; 2012-02-21 at 07:42 PM.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  10. #110
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Impossible to know, 100%, since the design behind Shaman tanking is not in the game, nor has Blizzard ever given a statement about how they would design it.

    Take a look at Paladins and Warriors, and you could just assume "Hey, they'll play different!" but in the end, they are VERY alike. It's hard to design a Shield-based tank in more than one way.
    If they make us an Agi 2hander tank (which wouldn't work since we can't wield Polearms right now, though I guess they could finally make Agi Staves again, now that Hunters won't wield melee weapons), how would we be different from Druids and Monks? You can't begin to assume that we would be uniquely distinct, as it's a problem Blizzard constantly struggles with... and I don't mean just tanks, I mean EVERY class that has a similar identity, and I guarantee they have way more experience in class design than you do.
    When I said several agility weapons, I was talking about the numerous 2H Axes and Maces in the game that have agility and stamina as the main stat.

    As for similarities with other tanks, Druid tanks are more similar to Warriors, and Monks will be mainly using their hands and feet for combat with the Stave being utilized for combo finishers and stats since they have no autoattack, so a Shaman tank wouldn't be similar to them either. A 2H Shaman tank (based on current play mechanics) could use Windfury to increase melee speed, Windfury weapon for procs, and Rockbiter to increase weapon damage, reduce damage, and increase threat. There's also elemental shields like Water shield and Lightning shield which could be used in some fashion, and a form of Malestrom Weapon that would allow the tanking Shaman to utilize intant-cast spells. Finally there's the 4 shocks that could also be utilized in some form to benefit tanking.

    Again, all of that is way different than what you're seeing at of any tank currently. No other tank in the game has a tool kit that includes ranged magic attacks (Druids do, but in melee form they're locked out). No other tank utilizes elements as their power source. No other tank would have the totem system for utility purposes.

    This will never happen though, because the future of Shaman is pretty much set in stone now, and most people who want Shaman tanking should either check out the new Monk class, or give Paladins or Death Knights a whirl.

  11. #111
    Pit Lord Protoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Impossible to know, 100%, since the design behind Shaman tanking is not in the game, nor has Blizzard ever given a statement about how they would design it.

    Take a look at Paladins and Warriors, and you could just assume "Hey, they'll play different!" but in the end, they are VERY alike. It's hard to design a Shield-based tank in more than one way.
    If they make us an Agi 2hander tank (which wouldn't work since we can't wield Polearms right now, though I guess they could finally make Agi Staves again, now that Hunters won't wield melee weapons), how would we be different from Druids and Monks? You can't begin to assume that we would be uniquely distinct, as it's a problem Blizzard constantly struggles with... and I don't mean just tanks, I mean EVERY class that has a similar identity, and I guarantee they have way more experience in class design than you do.
    With Monks coming out, since they use exclusively 2H agil staves for tanking, it wouldn't be too hard to make Shaman tanks use 2H as well....monks shaman and druids could all use the same 2H tanking weapons. If Blizz did bother to create a new spec, I'm sure they would take the time to make it unique enough that it doesn't feel like you are playing a DK or Monk tank instead. I'm not really buying this whole "shaman tanks wouldn't be different enough".....Druid tanks are almost exactly like a warrior tank so I don't even see how that matters much.

    When you boil it down, all tanks play the same. They got a few single target abilities, some aoe and cleave attacks, taunt, interrupt, few def cds, and maybe some type of self heal. If I sat down a spent a few good hours I'm sure I could design talents and abilities that share the same core principles as other tanks, but unique to shaman so it feels like you are not just playing a pally or monk with a different skin.

    Like I said before tho, all the good ideas for a Shaman tank seem to go to other classes, DK in last xpac, and now monks in this xpac. Stuff like bone shield, which looks just like a shaman's elemental shield would have been great for tanking.....statues for monks that can channel damage from the monk to it would be just like a tankish stoneclaw totem.

    For some random ideas I thought of on the spot:
    -a totem that absorbs a % of damage we take, and can then be sacrificed to heal us or absorb shield
    -ele shield that works like a mix of lightning and earth, so heals and does dmg
    -ele shield that inc in stacks as you get hit, and can be absorbed for a self heal or bubble that temp absorbs damage
    -ele imbue that lets your attacks hit 2 extra targets, and can proc an absorb shield when unleashed
    -ele imbue that makes you take less damage and inc threat, when unleashed does high threat high dmg attack
    -fire nova can spread a debuff that lowers enemy dmg or armor or inc phys damage taken
    -totem that absorbs % of dmg, up to 30% of shamans hp and can be destoryed for a bubble
    -CL will slow the enemies as well as red melee/cast speed
    -totem that aoe taunts and when destroyed will do an aoe stun

  12. #112
    My feelings. Needed? Probably not. Nice to have? maybe.

    Implementation wise. They would more than likely have to do something similiar to what they have done with druids in Mists. ie. A 4th specialisation
    Weather it be using agi mail for damage reduction, high parry from 2 handers or shields, totems for mitigation cooldowns, it's feaseable

    As for reasons why.
    I've seen this argument come up over and over again, including in this thread. More tanking Specs = More tanks. This quite simply a false statement.
    We saw it with the introduction of Death Knights, the was a influx of people who try tanking on a DK, after a few weeks people went back to their more favored roles. And I have no doubt that we will see this again with the introduction of monk tanks

  13. #113
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    When I said several agility weapons, I was talking about the numerous 2H Axes and Maces in the game that have agility and stamina as the main stat.
    We're not going back to Outland to grab raid gear, so I have no idea why you consider that relevant.

    As for similarities with other tanks, Druid tanks are more similar to Warriors, and Monks will be mainly using their hands and feet for combat with the Stave being utilized for combo finishers and stats since they have no autoattack, so a Shaman tank wouldn't be similar to them either. A 2H Shaman tank (based on current play mechanics) could use Windfury to increase melee speed, Windfury weapon for procs, and Rockbiter to increase weapon damage, reduce damage, and increase threat. There's also elemental shields like Water shield and Lightning shield which could be used in some fashion, and a form of Malestrom Weapon that would allow the tanking Shaman to utilize intant-cast spells. Finally there's the 4 shocks that could also be utilized in some form to benefit tanking.

    Again, all of that is way different than what you're seeing at of any tank currently. No other tank in the game has a tool kit that includes ranged magic attacks (Druids do, but in melee form they're locked out). No other tank utilizes elements as their power source. No other tank would have the totem system for utility purposes.
    You're largely incorrect about Druid tank design. They have some similarities to Warriors due to the fact that they use Rage, but the actual playstyle is more akin to how DKs work, since they don't get to block and instead have a "fake-block" that is triggered by using offensive abilities (though the Druid version is entirely random). In addition, their aoe threat mechanics are extremely spammable.

    You're also making numerous assumptions about the design of a spec that doesn't exist. Blizzard would not design the spec to be similar to Enhancement because, again, Blizzard likes unique playstyles.
    What gives you the impression there would be a maelstrom weapon? Or Windfury? Or Lightning Shield? It's more likely that Blizzard would use entirely new mechanics. Rockbiter is being removed completely, but if there was a tank spec it would likely be completely redesigned. A new imbue, just for them, a new elemental shield, just for them. A completely different mechanic that prevents the tank Shaman spec from chain-casting spells (especially the Shaman healing spells), while still allowing the tank Shaman to at least make some usage of Lightning Bolt. (hell, with how specializations work in MoP, I can imagine them simply getting a different version of the Lightning Bolt spell that has a cooldown)


    Also: DKs, Paladins, and Druids do all have ranged abilities. They don't use as many as a ranged caster, no, but that is because they are specifically designed to be tanking specs. Blizzard intentionally limits how many ranged abilities a tank has access to, and that would not change with Shaman tank design, because it has everything to do with the toolkit that a tank has access to for balance purposes.
    No other tank uses elements as a power source? That's not distinct. You could clone a Paladin, and then say he's a Dark Paladin that uses shadow magic, but all his abilities work EXACTLY the same, and I guarantee the playerbase would be very pissed off at Blizzard for not making the class actually unique.
    Totems? Wait, you think TOTEMS would make Shaman tanking unique or special?

    Haven't we just gone through two entire expansion where that's the nonsense Blizzard fed to us about why our buff system (hell, a lot of Shaman mechanics) was inferior to, say, Paladin blessings or Warrior Shouts? Because the concept of "totems" by itself is unique and special? We've been down that road, and it's the reason that buffing totems are gone for good.
    Last edited by DrakeWurrum; 2012-02-21 at 11:19 PM.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  14. #114
    depends how it would be implemented. a 4th tree would make many other classes butthurt. redoing the enh dps tree would make many enh shams butthurt. i am a huge fan of how enh plays atm (when soloing content), and fairly pleased with how enh plays in pvp/pve.

    from a personal viewpoint i dont think shamans have any business tanking. or doing melee dps. ele / resto seems like a fitting shaman role.

    id much rather see a spec for shamans that did friggin AWESOME shit with the graphics for pure utility. like, no dmg, no healing, no tanking, but you can run into a dungeon and move around the walls. because, lets face it, you can. or like... make a campfire and then carry the fire around and make the fire do shit. or run by a waterfall and grab some water and make that do shit. because that would be pimp. youre 'intune' with the forces of nature... the very fabric of the world. why shouldnt you be able to switch all that shit around lol. course... this would never happen in wow... one of wows major failing points lol.

  15. #115
    Pit Lord Protoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hursey View Post
    My feelings. Needed? Probably not. Nice to have? maybe.

    Implementation wise. They would more than likely have to do something similiar to what they have done with druids in Mists. ie. A 4th specialisation
    Weather it be using agi mail for damage reduction, high parry from 2 handers or shields, totems for mitigation cooldowns, it's feaseable

    As for reasons why.
    I've seen this argument come up over and over again, including in this thread. More tanking Specs = More tanks. This quite simply a false statement.
    We saw it with the introduction of Death Knights, the was a influx of people who try tanking on a DK, after a few weeks people went back to their more favored roles. And I have no doubt that we will see this again with the introduction of monk tanks
    More tank specs would equal more tanks. If they implemented shaman tanks, you would either have same amount of tanks as before, or more....obviously not less. And there is a group of diehard shaman tank enthusiasts such as myself that would def play the spec. DK tanks is a different story, not everyone enjoys their playstyle, and while they were the best tank on release, they slowly got nerfed each patch... as well as being confusing with 3 tank specs, and having to share gear with pally and warr tanks. A Shaman tank would be rolling against enh or hunters for gear, and hunter/monk/druid for 2h staff. And with as much fun as I have playing Enhance, I have no doubt that a tank spec would be just as fun if not better cause I get into groups faster and have more control.

  16. #116
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Protoman View Post
    More tank specs would equal more tanks.
    Wrong. Absolutely wrong.

    Proof: Three tank specs were added in Wrath. Number of tanks did not increase. Endus has covered this, twice.

    DK tanks is a different story, not everyone enjoys their playstyle, and while they were the best tank on release, they slowly got nerfed each patch
    Different story from what? They're the *only* story. Give me reason to believe that Shaman playstyle would be fun enough that MORE people would be attracted.

    The "lack of tanks" at the 5-man heroic level (the only level that lacks tanks - LFR tank queues will show you that there are too many tanks), has everything to do with the fact that people don't LIKE tanking 5-man heroics. It has nothing to do with the playstyle of an individual tank.

    What the game lacks is *healers* at the raiding level, especially good ones, but even then... more specs of that role does not equal more people playing that role.

    People who like to do DPS, like to do DPS. Nobody goes around saying "Well, I haven't found a tank playstyle I like, so I'll just DPS for now."
    If they want to tank, they'll pick a tank that already exists, and go post on the forums about the things they want Blizz to fix.
    Last edited by DrakeWurrum; 2012-02-21 at 11:23 PM.
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    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  17. #117
    Pit Lord Protoman's Avatar
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    Wrong. Absolutely wrong.

    Proof: Three tank specs were added in Wrath. Number of tanks did not increase. Endus has covered this, twice.
    Lol. No you are wrong, absolutely wrong.

    Proof: If a 4th tank spec was implemented for Shaman, I would switch my dual spec from Enh/Resto to Enh/Tank....and play Tank role for 5mans and raids unless they full on tanks and I can DPS.

    So the number of tanks has just gone up by 1. Now take half the people who posted in this thread, and add that to my count of people who would play a shaman tank.

    Why do you think the que times in lfg/lfr are so much shorter now then they used to be? There are more tanks and healers queing up then before.
    Different story from what? They're the *only* story. Give me reason to believe that Shaman playstyle would be fun enough that MORE people would be attracted.

    The "lack of tanks" at the 5-man heroic level (the only level that lacks tanks - LFR tank queues will show you that there are too many tanks), has everything to do with the fact that people don't LIKE tanking 5-man heroics. It has nothing to do with the playstyle of an individual tank.
    I used to play 2 classes primarily....my Shaman for DPS and Healing, and my Warrior for Tanking. I have played every class though, and out of all of them my favorite playstyle is Shaman, I like the mix of magic and melee, self heals, purge and wind shear. If they ever put a 4th tank spec, I would prob just play Shaman exclusively and forget all about my warrior. I am sure alot of other enhancers would switch over to tanking as well, as well as other tank specs who just want to try something different.

    People don't like to tank 5man heroics? That is news to me.....5man heroics are my favorite thing to tank. I have total control over the pace of the run, choosing what groups to pull or ignore, and I can basically carry the group if we have crappy dps. My prot warr can utilize all his stuns, charges, and aoe abilities.....I do almost as much dps as the dps, and I usually have the most interrupts (cause dps are lazy). Fast que times and fast runs for more JP are just icing on the cake.

    You are totally wrong in thinking that adding shaman tanks would not increase the # of tanks in the game.....this thread alone is proof that people want to tank as a Shaman.

  18. #118
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Protoman View Post
    More tank specs would equal more tanks.
    This is absolutely not true, and we know this, because Blizzard tried that, and it didn't work.

    In TBC, there weren't enough tanks running around, and it's no coincidence that the new hero class in WotLK was the Death Knight, with not one, but three fully capable tank specs.

    And the result, to the community? No more tanks than there had been before. The lack of tanks (for 5-mans, mostly) remained a serious issue, and it wasn't until they added Call to Arms for roles on LFG that they actually made a dent in the problem.

    Adding tank specs does nothing at all to the number of tanks in the game, because the one constant factor is not the number of tank specs, but the number of tank players. I have a paladin I tank on when I want to. All adding a tank spec to Shaman would do is give me greater freedom with my main. Nor would it have any significant effect on the community; the number of players who are die-hard only-ever-a-Shaman players who want to tank and can't because of that self-enforced choice is vanishingly small, and what little effect it would have would be negated by other players feeling less obligated to tank as often.

    The end result? Same number of tanks. Just a wider variety.

    Which is a legitimate reason, in and of itself. But if they're going to add a spec to Shaman, they may as well add a new spec to everyone.

  19. #119
    The Patient Enhanced's Avatar
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    I will probably put this in the least friendly way possible: i look at threads like these all the time on shaman discussion forums. And each time people offer to butcher the spec i love, and why? because 6 years ago it could kind of OT, and that was only because the horde didnt have paladins then.
    So please, please, stop trying to butcher the only spec i have truely loved as once Blizzard removes something they tend not to implement it again.

  20. #120
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    We're not going back to Outland to grab raid gear, so I have no idea why you consider that relevant.
    Its relevant because Blizzard wouldn't have to design an entirely new class of weapons, and just add 2H agility Maces and Axes for the last ten levels (80-90). And yeah, there are lvl 80 2H axes and maces already in the game that fit the criteria I'm talking about.

    You're largely incorrect about Druid tank design. They have some similarities to Warriors due to the fact that they use Rage, but the actual playstyle is more akin to how DKs work, since they don't get to block and instead have a "fake-block" that is triggered by using offensive abilities (though the Druid version is entirely random). In addition, their aoe threat mechanics are extremely spammable.
    Right. The Druid just has numerous abilities that completely mirror the warrior in function and design. Thrash and Thunderclap say hello.

    You're also making numerous assumptions about the design of a spec that doesn't exist. Blizzard would not design the spec to be similar to Enhancement because, again, Blizzard likes unique playstyles.
    What gives you the impression there would be a maelstrom weapon? Or Windfury? Or Lightning Shield? It's more likely that Blizzard would use entirely new mechanics. Rockbiter is being removed completely, but if there was a tank spec it would likely be completely redesigned. A new imbue, just for them, a new elemental shield, just for them. A completely different mechanic that prevents the tank Shaman spec from chain-casting spells (especially the Shaman healing spells), while still allowing the tank Shaman to at least make some usage of Lightning Bolt. (hell, with how specializations work in MoP, I can imagine them simply getting a different version of the Lightning Bolt spell that has a cooldown)
    A Shaman tank would use abilities like Lightning Shield and Windfury because they are baseline abilities. The point was that a Shaman tank wouldn't play anything like an existing tank simply because of the class mechanics built over the last 7 years.


    Also: DKs, Paladins, and Druids do all have ranged abilities. They don't use as many as a ranged caster, no, but that is because they are specifically designed to be tanking specs. Blizzard intentionally limits how many ranged abilities a tank has access to, and that would not change with Shaman tank design, because it has everything to do with the toolkit that a tank has access to for balance purposes.
    Except every current Shaman spec utilizes the ranged caster aspects of the Shaman class, and this includes the Melee spec. Thus it stands to reason that a Shaman tank wouldn't be any different simply because of class mechanics.

    No other tank uses elements as a power source? That's not distinct. You could clone a Paladin, and then say he's a Dark Paladin that uses shadow magic, but all his abilities work EXACTLY the same, and I guarantee the playerbase would be very pissed off at Blizzard for not making the class actually unique.
    You do understand that Death Knights are "Dark Paladins" correct?


    Totems? Wait, you think TOTEMS would make Shaman tanking unique or special? Haven't we just gone through two entire expansion where that's the nonsense Blizzard fed to us about why our buff system (hell, a lot of Shaman mechanics) was inferior to, say, Paladin blessings or Warrior Shouts? Because the concept of "totems" by itself is unique and special? We've been down that road, and it's the reason that buffing totems are gone for good.
    I never said that the totems would be utilized simply for buffs. They could be used for added tank utility. The point is that a Shaman tank dropping totems to aid it in battle would make the Shaman a very unique tanking class.

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