how to beat mages as a rogue?

[Kelticfox]

Pair of you: Enough.

Back to topic.

[FaxiDerp]

I figured out that I couldnt.

I rerolled mage.

Problem solved.

Oh wait

[Creed]

Kind of funny, seeing all the
"Lol, you're so bad... if you cant beat X reroll/uninstall."
and
"Don't even try...its a lost cause. Vanish, run and /camp."

Well, fact is. "How to beat a Mage as a Rogue" - The simple answer.
Outgear, outplay, or outnumber.
The game isn't 1v1 balanced. Anything can beat anything. But some just have an easier time of doing it than others.

Too many things to consider. Duel? They know you're there, know you'll open..prepared, all cooldowns. Arena? (assuming it comes down to a 1v1) Who has more cooldowns? more health? their mana %?

There is no "Heres how to Do it." Sadly, the best way to win, is to learn your class. And learn how to play. Time playing and experience will be the best tools you can acquire. So stick to it and godspeed.

[Deleted]

As someone who spends 80% of his time in Warcraft dueling outside of Ogrimmar it always cracks me up to see these Rogues who claim that beating a Mage is "easy."

I wonder why there are so many Forum Heroes, and yet I've never seen one of these Rogues in-game.

Opening with Silence is a cute idea, but enjoy getting rooted by his pet while the Mage calmly steps away with blink still at his disposal.

You would be better off cheap shotting, forcing the mage to blink, popping Cloak of Shadows to get out of pet root then shadow stepping to the mage. Hopefully he isn't a Goblin or he will just Rocket Jump away and continue to face roll you. If not, the mage will likely ice block and continue to own you because you weren't able to restealth with his pet free casting on you. So basically you will always lose unless:

-The Mage sucks.
-You significantly out gear the Mage.

This is coming from someone who plays both a Rogue and a Mage competitively. Rogues don't beat Mages 1v1.

i disagree! One of the best rogues duelled one of the best mages and the rogue won. A skilled rogue vs a skilled mage is a 50/50. I couldnt find the vid but you can look for it. If i am correct i think it was wreckful but not sure

[Jersovic]

i disagree! One of the best rogues duelled one of the best mages and the rogue won. A skilled rogue vs a skilled mage is a 50/50. I couldnt find the vid but you can look for it. If i am correct i think it was wreckful but not sure

I've never seen this video you speak of, but I do know of a video where a relatively unknown Mage completely wrecks Neilyo, and another Glad Rogue.

[Klingers]

How to beat a mage on a rogue:

1) Cloak of Shadows.
2) Vanish/Sprint.
3) Run away.
4) Log onto Death Knight.

[necemoci]

You just can't handle the fact that i'm right. Because if you could, then you would now be thinking of a way to improve your stategy rather than doing what you just did.

Ok baddie YOUTUBE or GTFO fom rogue forums

Edit: again YOUTUBE your skillz,dont just troll.

Double edit: Just saw official forums,i have been trolled so bad.

[Evolixe]

I've never seen this video you speak of, but I do know of a video where a relatively unknown Mage completely wrecks Neilyo, and another Glad Rogue.

So if i post a video of completely wreckking ruthless gladiator mages then it means you are wrong?

Btw, i don't have a skillcapped account and i don't intend to get one.

[Kael]

I've never seen this video you speak of, but I do know of a video where a relatively unknown Mage completely wrecks Neilyo, and another Glad Rogue.

You know I'm not really into pvp, but if you're posting this as evidence, shouldn't Neilyo lose the duels rather than win them?

I'd guess that if you can follow what's happening with Neilyo there soundless, you might learn more about beating frost mages 1v1.

[Forgottenone]

It would be really nice to get some advice from a 2400+ rogue or mage that can give some insight (stating it isn't enough, armory link gogo). I know that has the potential to defeat a mage but it also depends on your surroundings. Some LoS can make a HUGE difference, straight duel outside Org tho or SW MOST (not all) mages will beat rogues.

Hell even if the player is about the mentioned rating it seems almost pointless to write a guide here. Would be nice to watch a video rogue vs mage with both players being above a rating that everyone can agree means they are skilled and didn't get carried (if we could agree with that).

[Jersovic]

So if i post a video of completely wreckking ruthless gladiator mages then it means you are wrong?

Btw, i don't have a skillcapped account and i don't intend to get one.

Perhaps you should ask the individual who insisted video evidence was the best argument. Out of curiousity I googled 'Reckful dueling mage,' and nothing came up, so then I thought of the next top US server Rogue (Neilyo) and searched his name dueling Mage and that is what came up. If I were to do a more broad search "rogue vs mage" I would still get the same results:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HArDg...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J89Ix...layer_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DkFu3ONtPs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQ7YdhHfO70
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lNjv...yer_embedded#!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7QfusXLsUs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sNkw...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmp6hhPxRak

I personally feel that video evidence is a horrible example. Why would anyone post a video of them getting owned in a duel? If I were to duel the Mage on my RMP team, who should be at around the same skill level as myself, I would expect him to win at least 6 out of 10 times. However, I would be very surprised if I didn't snag at least 2-3 victories out of the whole shebang. In terms of betting odds, the Rogue is always going to be -100, whereas the Mage is going to be +150. Not impossible for a Rogue to win against a Mage of similar skill level, but definitely not in their favor. With this in mind - gun to my head, two random strangers dueling: one a Rogue, one a Mage - with my life hanging in the balance, I would always choose the Mage.

Hell, I've seen a Frost Death Knight on Blackrock (Imcutedotjpg) destroy Gladiator Rogues, and I would say the betting odds are +250 in the Rogue's favor, and -250 in any Frost Death Knight's favor.

[Evolixe]

That is more fair of an anology, yeah.

Mages have the RNG on their side. It's mostly the blazing speed/impact procs that decide the outcome of a match.
However, if he doesn't get overly lucky, you should be able to win about 40% of the time. It's not easy, it requires very quick reactions and decision making and most of all is full of RNG. But definitely doable.

Also, arena achievements have absolutely zero reference outside of that very playground. I've seen ruthless gladiators completely screw up duels every single time and i have seen 2000 rogues play like near gods.

[Verain]

This topic is mostly about duels, which I don't really do many of.

I can offer some advice for the world pvp rogue, however:


1)- Obviously, you can see if the mage runs into problems- best is with other alliance (or horde, if you chose the wrong faction :P ). The big cooldown you want to see gone is blink, because mages solo will use blink almost rotationally- with it, they can be very aggressive on groups of mobs. If a mage uses blink, it is worth sprinting to him and cheapshotting him. If he doesn't block immediately, you will do mostly unrecoverable damage.

2)- A spec with both prep and improved sprint (so, sub with a combat minor) is highly effective against mages, as you have a shocking number of snare breaks. Note that without the vital damage talents in assassination, you should be running hemo over backstab. This build can also be very effective against hunters, and can be enjoyable in BGs, especially if you overgear the average combatants, but don't get too used to it- the extra couple snare breaks will not get you kills or even cooldowns in arenas. It is defensible in RBGs, depending on your role.

3)- While a hard sell, a free action or living action potion can make a huge difference, especially if sprint is active during it. It is clutch to burn this AFTER block if possible. Using a living action potion to counter the ice stun is also fine, as you will eliminate absolutely tons of incoming damage and save your trinket. Your other best potion is agility, but a healing potion isn't bad either. The final option for potion is counterintuitive: invisibility can (unless they changed it recently) allow you to see an enemy mage who is also invisible, which should enable you to land a deadly throw. Note that this takes a few seconds to work as you must drop combat, etc, but this can get a kill on a mage who has a reasonable escape route.

4)- A mage down cooldowns is a free kill, and can result in not having to burn valuable stuff like prep or potions. Again, mages blow blink often, and if you see them do the ice stun, that can also be ok. Be aware that mages have a full suite of amazing tricks too, and don't be overconfident just because they are down nova and ice stun- they have plenty of ways to reset these tricks, from cold snap to glyped ice block to just sheeping you until they recover on their own.

5)- Mages can make pretty exceptional distance and escapes, can fall from great heights, and can use their magic of movement to get to a defensive position- try to avoid engagement when they are near any easy escapes such as this, or can blink back to enemy guards, etc. If the enemy mage has friends, you will not get a kill unless iceblock and possibly cold snap are down, unless his gear or skill are particularly atrocious- in this situation, you should target the friends first- obviously, if their skill is remotely acceptable, you should have no chance of winning, but not all players are remotely acceptable!


Your best weapon in world pvp is always stealth. With it, you can engage under extremely beneficial circumstances, destroy your target, and hide, sometimes taking literally no damage, depending. Patience can help you get a better opener, and preserve cooldowns for next time.

---------- Post added 2012-03-29 at 04:46 PM ----------

Also on side topic, it seems very likely that burst of speed will enable a very different type of fight against mages, and a rogue going prep will have a second cloak, also very valuable in this fight- on top of this, mages are losing some of their tricks, or at least having to choose between tricks. This fight will probably be a better matchup in MoP, in duels and everywhere else.

[RandomAustralian]

As a rogue spam derpsilence and pop derpcloak when you feel like taking no damage, when he blocks pop lolbye and re-open with lolsilence again. If they live much longer than that just spam more loldamage until he is no longer breathing.

[Verain]

Your post makes it sound like mage v. rogue is stacked in favor of the rogue on live, in a duel: it is absolutely not.

[Deleted]

Holo on your Ambush>Gouge opener do you dance>cs/garotte off that or what? I know it will be redundant with MoP but might try it in a few duels between now and launch. Can you just walk through a typical duel using this strat.

[Evolixe]

Holo on your Ambush>Gouge opener do you dance>cs/garotte off that or what? I know it will be redundant with MoP but might try it in a few duels between now and launch. Can you just walk through a typical duel using this strat.

Dance CS after the gouge. To force a blink. Cloak that and sprint to him with a kidney for a guaranteed iceblock. After that it's basically you with 80% cooldowns against a mage without block.