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  1. #21
    For the naysayers caliming dw has better burst simply because it has more KM procs, no that is closer to sustained damage when comparing dw/2h.

    A good pvper will be aware of his cooldowns/situation, he will know when his next km is ready, he will set it up so he can lay out pillar/trinkets with said km and following frost strikes.

    Now if you compare that system with dw - simply due to the weapon damage 2h frost = more burst, if you are using gurth you have the extra sustained damage from tentacles which if rng lines up with your KM/pillar/trinket/FS spam = huge burst damage.

    If you are not an adept pvp player then forget it, go DW for more sustained pressure, but don't discount 2h burst just because your not capable.

    For the most part UH is superior I feel, 2h is more for 2's or gimmicky comps.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeleh View Post
    For the naysayers caliming dw has better burst simply because it has more KM procs, no that is closer to sustained damage when comparing dw/2h.

    A good pvper will be aware of his cooldowns/situation, he will know when his next km is ready, he will set it up so he can lay out pillar/trinkets with said km and following frost strikes.

    Now if you compare that system with dw - simply due to the weapon damage 2h frost = more burst, if you are using gurth you have the extra sustained damage from tentacles which if rng lines up with your KM/pillar/trinket/FS spam = huge burst damage.

    If you are not an adept pvp player then forget it, go DW for more sustained pressure, but don't discount 2h burst just because your not capable.

    For the most part UH is superior I feel, 2h is more for 2's or gimmicky comps.
    According to World of Wargraphs, 80% of dks over 2.2k rating are using 2h. So how is 2h for gimmicky comps?
    http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/stat...0---0-0-0.html

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Kukkaroinen View Post
    According to World of Wargraphs, 80% of dks over 2.2k rating are using 2h. So how is 2h for gimmicky comps?
    http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/stat...0---0-0-0.html
    Generally I look at the very top of pvp where skill makes it count rather than the overall anyone above 2.2k where people can get to based on the right comp/burst damage setups.

    It's actually closer to a 50:50 split for the top 100, I always just feel UH brings more to the table in an arena in terms of saves/ability to deal with situations, hence why i feel 2h is more "gimmicky" it's primarily based on burst rather than stratagy, just a personal opinion.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeleh View Post
    Generally I look at the very top of pvp where skill makes it count rather than the overall anyone above 2.2k where people can get to based on the right comp/burst damage setups.

    It's actually closer to a 50:50 split for the top 100, I always just feel UH brings more to the table in an arena in terms of saves/ability to deal with situations, hence why i feel 2h is more "gimmicky" it's primarily based on burst rather than stratagy, just a personal opinion.
    You mean frost is more "gimmicky"? Because DW is just as gimmick as 2h is when compared to UH.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Kukkaroinen View Post
    You mean frost is more "gimmicky"? Because DW is just as gimmick as 2h is when compared to UH.
    Well yea, I thought it was reasonably clear that I felt UH brings more to arena than frost, don't get me wrong, frost has it's uses in brute strength, especially with the right comps. But in general unholy brings more utility to an arena, this is how it has always been.

    If the OP is playing frost then 2H is the better end of the deal, simply because once you learn it it brings more burst than DW does when going for a kill.

    But I would advise looking at his comp and actually asking if being UH will serve the setup better.

  6. #26
    Bloodsail Admiral Muraza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    necrotic strike damage (this is really not a big deal cause necrotic damage is low anyways, the absorb part is based on attack power anyways)
    Or you could play unholy and not look like your terrible at the game.

    Infracted
    Last edited by Darsithis; 2012-02-21 at 02:46 PM.

  7. #27
    There *is* a sticky thread about this subject at the top of the forum.

  8. #28
    Honestly, the real reason to get a 2h is because you can easily switch between Frost, Unholy and Blood. DW is kinda nice for a few reasons such as totem killing, 10% frost damage, more KM procs, no need to have oblit on your bars, cheap OH weapon swaps for swordshattering when you are getting trained so you don't eat a 10 sec disarm, etc. 2H loses some mastery for the hit you have to make up but with those extra points you can gain more RP. 2H also has the ability to pressure better with necro instead of just straight damage and necro is good in lots of situations (like that pesky dk with AMS up). Also 2H can flow between sick AE damage and tight single damage when it is important to not break CC. DW can't keep up pressure on a single target as well without HB. So for RBGs I choose to go 2H (mainly for the ability to keep pressure up without breaking CC), and I go unholy for arena. One weapon to rule them all.

  9. #29
    Tyrean nailed it. I will agree i hate the fact to do any single target damage i will be breaking CC, and that alone might sway me over to the 2h world, but its really the only weakness i see for DW. I should add i am still in the random BG honor grind phase so breaking CC really does not apply, just 4 more pieces of gear before i can start rated matches.

  10. #30
    The reason 2h is superior is because in arenas (not bgs cuz that doesn't matter) you are constantly switching from dps to a healer. 2s and 3s. It takes roughly 5 seconds of attacking a target with dw to have the same damage as 2h. Because frost is the worst choice out of the dps specs (excluding blood) you need that extra damage when switching targets.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by ThewF View Post
    because you rarely use Obliterate.
    Why would you do this?!!? Obliterate is like number 1# ability used! Take chunks out of people and when they're low necrotic strike!

    Once again:

    DW= damage over time
    2h= burst

    You want burst to make a kill.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    DW pros:

    Razorice for 10% more frost damage.
    Allows to stack more mastery because of the 3% hit you get from talents.
    More killing machine procs.

    2h pros:

    Higher necrotic strike damage (this is really not a big deal cause necrotic damage is low anyways, the absorb part is based on attack power anyways)
    ?
    ?


    I just dont understand why everyone suggest to go 2h frost over DW, in my eyes DW is superior.
    "razorice" - 2h has it built into MotFW, a flat 10% increase to all melee attacks which include Necrotic Strike, Plague Strike, Obliterate, Frost Strike and your White Hits.
    "Allows to stack more mastery because of the 3% hit you get from talents." - it's nice, but nothing major. you just need 5% hit for pvp. with pvp itemization, its easy to get to. what you miss out on mastery is potentially 2% (at the most 3%) frost dmg, which is negligible.
    "More killing machine procs." - killing machines procs are PPM, so you're gonna proc the same per minute regardless if you are wielding a fast or slow weapon, dw or 2h.

    - 2h -
    MotFW - 10% higher dmg (with no ramp-up) Necrotic Strike, Plague Strike, Obliterate, White Hits. AWESOME, AWESOME runic power generation which means 0 downtime, more Frost Strikes, plenty of RP for Lichborne heals, pet sac, IBF...WHEN YOU NEED IT.
    2h weapon with awesome proc - Gurth
    2h weapon - higher top end dmg so your burst is better; crits on your NS, PS and especially White Hits make a noticeable difference.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Femmefatale View Post
    Why would you do this?!!? Obliterate is like number 1# ability used! Take chunks out of people and when they're low necrotic strike!

    Once again:

    DW= damage over time
    2h= burst

    You want burst to make a kill.
    It's been said half a dozen times in this thread... Obliterate costs an Unholy and Frost rune. You get more mileage from those two runes if you go with 1 Necrotic Strike and 1 Howling Blast. PVP players are heavily armored, and Obliterate does shitty damage on basically everyone except clothies who are below 35%. If you want burst as 2H Frost, you blow Pillar of Frost, stack Necrotics up on your target, and lay into them with Frost Strikes (which are unmitigated by armor).

    Just using a whole bunch of exclamation points doesn't make you correct. Please read before saying things.

  14. #34
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    hi!
    I'm looking for advices on the 2h frost PVP dk.
    I read that obliterate produce shitty damage etc... don't you use it? specific situation? how do you spec (I can't take the 31pts talent without spending some points into obliterate/dual related talent).
    thanks a lot
    Last edited by Groh; 2012-02-26 at 06:19 PM.

  15. #35
    It has nothing to do with "burst damage". It is just because you miss out on important talents if you choose DW.

  16. #36
    You run 2H because you gain more runic power from AA which leads to more Frost Strikes. Its generally mash Necrotics and Howling and Frost strike on Kill machine procs. never use Oblit unless its a clothy and you have both diseases up and killing machine.
    edit - DW has higher burst damage because you can string 5+ Killing machine FS which leads to quick gibs but who plays frost anymore.

  17. #37
    Mechagnome Wolfbear's Avatar
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    Also is it worth talenting into Epidemic rather than Virulence since HB is going to be used alot anyway... same with the glyph of oblit, is there any point if oblit is used so rarely/not at all?
    Last edited by Wolfbear; 2012-02-27 at 09:51 AM.

  18. #38
    Mechagnome DragonSoul's Avatar
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    tbh epidemic isnt that great i got 1 point in it so it increases duration by 4 seconds using 3 talent points to add another 8 seconds isnt worth it in pvp cos your gonna smash the crap out of your enemy anyway, frost dk's have survival problems so its better to put those talent point in blade barrier and bladded armor as u will get more benefit from them the increased time on the diseases is laughable for the amount of points you have to spend to have an extra 12 seconds

  19. #39
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    But if you put 6pts into the Blood tree you cant take desecration in unholy

  20. #40
    Dreadlord Kegler's Avatar
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    2h gives you infinitely more runic power to work with, and is by far the superior choice for pvp.

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