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  1. #1
    The Patient xaniix's Avatar
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    Frost or unholy in DS?

    The Question become what spec is best for DS Frost or Unholy plz tell me becuse im a retard
    Bli inte glad när många killar springer efter dig, vi springer efter en boll också men sparkar iväg den tillslut'' - Xaniix

  2. #2
    depends on the fight. Unholy sims higher.
    IMO
    morchock unholy
    zonozz unholy
    yorsahj frost
    hagara frost
    ultraxion unholy
    warmaster frost or unholy
    spine frost
    madness frost

  3. #3
    I am not sure which is doing more I belive DW Frost is most atm but the gap is pretty small.

    I personally go Unholy, I perfer its play style to Frost hands down.

  4. #4
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Currently I think the spread goes Frost DW > Unholy 2H > Frost 2H assuming equal gear and skill. The specs are pretty close to one-another, and depending on your skill and relative iLvl you won't notice a huge difference between them. I'd say to roll with what feels natural to you.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  5. #5
    guys, it's been at least 2 months since 4.3 came out. unholy sims higher than frost.
    http://simulationcraft.org/432/Raid_T13H.html

  6. #6
    Unholy may sim higher than frost, but the actual DPS results show that Frost is slightly ahead of unholy in 10m, and unholy is slightly ahead of frost in 25m. Both are so close as to be inconsequential; what you want to do is play the spec that you are more comfortable with/have better weapons for/your raid needs buffs for. Niether spec is way ahead of the other.

  7. #7
    The Patient xaniix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bals View Post
    guys, it's been at least 2 months since 4.3 came out. unholy sims higher than frost.
    http://simulationcraft.org/432/Raid_T13H.html
    WOW so frost dk is almost last of all dps spec? how can it be that?
    Bli inte glad när många killar springer efter dig, vi springer efter en boll också men sparkar iväg den tillslut'' - Xaniix

  8. #8
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Wow, DK DPS is way down there, isn't it? I tend not to lend a lot of weight to the SimulationCraft spread, since I've never really seen it apply well to a real-world scenario... it's useful for evaluating top-ends and such, but I don't think it lends itself so well to comparing performance between class specs in a lot of cases. My advice is typically to go with what you know or feel affinity for... because if you stick yourself in a play style you don't like, your performance is going to suffer in any case.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  9. #9
    The Patient xaniix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Wow, DK DPS is way down there, isn't it? I tend not to lend a lot of weight to the SimulationCraft spread, since I've never really seen it apply well to a real-world scenario... it's useful for evaluating top-ends and such, but I don't think it lends itself so well to comparing performance between class specs in a lot of cases. My advice is typically to go with what you know or feel affinity for... because if you stick yourself in a play style you don't like, your performance is going to suffer in any case.

    ok i perf forst so im gonna stay frost thx for all tips!
    Bli inte glad när många killar springer efter dig, vi springer efter en boll också men sparkar iväg den tillslut'' - Xaniix

  10. #10
    Herald of the Titans Varyk's Avatar
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    Frost is probably better for Blackthorn and Spine. I would rate Unholy higher for every other fight tho.

  11. #11
    The Patient xaniix's Avatar
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    ehm ok i cant really DECIDE what i wanna play really.as frost i got 2hc weopone from Morchok if that make any diffrend?
    Bli inte glad när många killar springer efter dig, vi springer efter en boll också men sparkar iväg den tillslut'' - Xaniix

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Varyk View Post
    Frost is probably better for Blackthorn and Spine. I would rate Unholy higher for every other fight tho.
    I'd rank frost as markedly better on Madness as well (Procs more spellweave, has stronger burst AE at basically no dps loss). To me, although unholy is marginally stronger for the first 4 bosses (and about even on the 5th), frost is clearly the superior spec due to its dominance on the harder fights of the tier.

  13. #13
    Deleted
    Ultimately, the only real option if you want to be the best you possibly can is to play both. Unholy pulls ahead on most fights, but Frost is superior on others (namely Spine and possibly Madness). Given that the first 6 aren't very hard however, it would be viable (though not optimal) to play Frost on anything. Playing Unholy on everything is now also possible given the nerfs to Spine and the reduced burst damage required, however Frost is still preferable.

  14. #14
    I'm curious why everyone says unholy is clearly better than frost. According to raidbots, it shows Frost as superior in 10m (http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...0/default/#c00) by 1400 dps, and unholy to be better than frost in 25m (http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...0/default/#c00) by 700 dps. The very top(1-10) may be higher as unholy on most fights, but those parses also have much higher rng on tentacles much like how top fire mage parses are all people with amazing rng.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by bals View Post
    guys, it's been at least 2 months since 4.3 came out. unholy sims higher than frost.
    http://simulationcraft.org/432/Raid_T13H.html
    Which makes sense due the fact UH scales better due gear.

  16. #16
    Deleted
    Using RaidBots, especially when using overall setting is never the greatest gauge of how good a spec is. Regardless, I imagine it's easier for a 10 man group to cover the buffs that Unholy brings as opposed to those which Frost has, swaying the balance in favor of Frost.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by theyanger View Post
    I'd rank frost as markedly better on Madness as well (Procs more spellweave, has stronger burst AE at basically no dps loss). To me, although unholy is marginally stronger for the first 4 bosses (and about even on the 5th), frost is clearly the superior spec due to its dominance on the harder fights of the tier.
    UH cant even compete with frost on Yorsahj hardmode if you use a masterfrost build/rotation. And it can't really compete very well with Hagara hardmode either when your pet constantly dies due to glitchy boss attacks, meanwhile frost can HB the crystals while running around as melee where UH can only hit DC and toss diseases up before having to run on. On Morchok if you happen to need your DK eating crystals because you don't have enough ranged/moving healers frost can slam HB from the crystal and behind spikes.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenxion78 View Post
    Using RaidBots, especially when using overall setting is never the greatest gauge of how good a spec is. Regardless, I imagine it's easier for a 10 man group to cover the buffs that Unholy brings as opposed to those which Frost has, swaying the balance in favor of Frost.
    I'm not saying it is amazing, but raidbots is better than gauging results from Simcraft of all things. If you have a method BETTER than raidbots I'm all for it, but people are basing their choice of frost or unholy off of single samples and their own personal experience; at least raidbots bases it off of a sample size of 100.

    And true, the accessibility of buffs is slanted in favor of frost, but with survival hunters being the top hunter dps spec these days I don't think its nearly as slanted as it was in t11/t12, I can imagine plenty of raid groups need their dk to go unholy for 8% spell damage.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by thelordymir View Post
    UH cant even compete with frost on Yorsahj hardmode if you use a masterfrost build/rotation. And it can't really compete very well with Hagara hardmode either when your pet constantly dies due to glitchy boss attacks, meanwhile frost can HB the crystals while running around as melee where UH can only hit DC and toss diseases up before having to run on. On Morchok if you happen to need your DK eating crystals because you don't have enough ranged/moving healers frost can slam HB from the crystal and behind spikes.
    I've never had my pet die on Hagara, and you can just put your pet on a crystal and do a ton of dps while you're running around diseasing/scourge strikign the others. I also don't know what you mean about being unable to do anything but DC and diseases, that's just...bad? Both specs you should be able to melee them plenty and disease/DC/HB from range while you're moving between. Either way, you're just flat out wrong, Unholy loses LESS dps on the crystals than frost does. Frost parses higher because the fight is so short now and you can use CDs on every double damage phase, while unholy does poorly on it. In terms of being useful on the fight I'd still give unholy the nod, but both specs are close (Which is true for all of the first 6 bosses).

  20. #20
    Deleted
    having raided DS with both I would say frost is the better spec.I find the high burst generally is better than unholy dps, and you need to switch targets on quite a few of the bosses in DS. the ghoul is always getting killed on fights like hagara and with every platform switch with madness, which ofc is a dps loss.

    In 10man you also have to factor in that Frost provides 3 raid buffs/debuffs, while unholy only provides one, This is prob why frost is ahead on most of the fights in 10man - coz most of the better players are frost to provide the correct raid buffs.

    maybe I just haven't quite perfected unholy, levelled as frost, raided as frost since I rolled it lol, only went unholy briefly since ds. generally i do about the same single target but when movement and target switching comes into play frost comes out ahead.

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