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  1. #1

    Cloak Comparasions, Booming Voice, and Pre-Pull Mastery Death Wish Increase

    So using Landsouls Spreadsheet Beta 3, during different points in my gear progression I've found one to be better than the other; mainly Cloudburst Cloak of the Earthshaker from Al'Akir. However now Bladed Flamewrath Cloak has become better for me as I have reached full Best in Slot besides the second Sulfuras.

    While trying to figure that out, I also decided to see about how 1/2BV differed really from 2/2BV, and using the Increased Death Wish value 2s before Pull vs 4s past pull.

    Was wondering if anyone else reached the same conclusion or found differences. This might be a little hard to follow my thinking but try your best


    Sinnermighty's Headache for Tier 12
    • Comparing 1/2 Booming Voice vs. 2/2 Booming Voice
    • 1700 Pre-Combat Mastery, Deathwish 2s before Pull vs 1260 Pre-Combat Mastery, Deathwish 4s after pull
    • Cloudburst Cloak of the Earthshaker vs. Bladed Flamewrath Cloak

    Used Landsouls Spreadsheet Beta 3

    Gearsets Used
    Bladed Flamewrath Cloak Set: http://chardev.org/?profile=263434
    Cloudburst Cloak Set: http://chardev.org/?profile=263432

    Reforging Changes to get to Bladed Set from Cloudburst Set:

    Bladed: Haste -> Crit
    Rep Ring: Hit -> Exp
    Alys Ring: Expertise -> Crit
    Giantslicer: Exp -> Crit

    Reforging Changes to get to Cloudburst Set from Bladed Set:

    Cloudburst: -> Hit->Exp
    Alys: Haste->Crit
    Rep Ring: No Reforge
    Giantslicer: Hit->Crit

    Settings:
    Full Buffs
    Full Debuffs
    5min 35s Fight
    Use Heroic Leap on CD
    No Forced Weapon Sync
    Flask - Titanic Strength
    Food: +90STR
    Boss: Armor 11978
    ---------------------------------------------------------

    1700 Pre-Combat Mastery -2 Death Wish

    Bladed Setup
    37896.7176 DPS
    37887.6782 DPS with 2/2 BV = 9.0394 DPS loss

    Cloudburst Setup
    37893.7811 DPS
    37884.7117 DPS with 2/2 BV = 9.0694 DPS loss

    +2.9365 DPS to go Bladed 1/2 BV vs. Cloudburst
    --------------------------

    1260 Pre-Combat Mastery 4s Death Wish

    Bladed Setup
    37629.8124 DPS
    37615.6916 DPS with 2/2 BV = 14.1208 DPS loss

    Cloudburst Setup
    37626.5158 DPS
    37612.4836 DPS with 2/2 BV = 14.0322 DPS loss

    +3.2966 DPS to go Bladed 1/2 BV vs. Cloudburst
    ----------------------------------------------------

    1700 Pre-Combat Mastery -2s DW vs 1260 Pre-Combat Mastery 4s Death Wish

    Bladed Cloak: +266.9052 DPS w/1700 Mastery vs 1260
    .......with 2/2BV +271.9866 DPS w/1700 Mastery vs 1260
    Cloudburst Cloak: +267.2653 DPS w/1700 Mastery vs 1260
    .....with 2/2BV +272.2281 DPS w/1700 Mastery vs 1260
    ----------------------------------------------------------

    Conclusion: Start using Pre-Pull Mastery Deathwish Increase with Bladed Setup with 1/2 BV for Maximum DPS in BiS Gear.

    Next on my list: Cinch of the Flaming Ember vs Uncrushable Belt of Fury & Apparatus of Khaz'goroth vs Heart of Rage (Both might be inter-related)
    Last edited by Sinnermighty; 2011-10-28 at 07:10 PM.

  2. #2
    The Patient
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    My gear setup: http://chardev.org/?profile=263581 (Equal to your Bladed-setup but lacking heroic thrown)

    I reckon the main advantage of Bladed depends entirely on how we're abled to make use of that Expertise. Right now I feel really happy with my current gearsetup, I'm perfectly right on the Expertise cap so I'm not really wasting any rating anywhere - although the firestone for my thrown will screw that up again (sigh).

    I'll definitely say that pre-popping Death Wish seems like a fantastic trick, but only using Chalice for the equation is a terribly big potential loss. Why stop at 1700 when you can go way beyond that?

    I still have a few more dailies before I can actually get my hands on Chalice myself, but with my current Mastery-gear I reach 24.18 Mastery - I'm sure I can actually get a lot higher if I were to pick up some random non-plate Firelands-gear as well as regem everything to full Mastery, I reckon it ought to be more than viable to reach 30-35 Mastery.

    Looking forward to the next version of Landsouls spreadsheet where he plans to allow X Mastery to calculate the dps-increase of pre-popping Death Wish, I figure if 1700 is worth it then ~5000 has to be very, very worth it.

  3. #3
    Yup only reason why I set it to 1700 is because we cannot set our own value currently.

    Should be very interesting to see how much a DPS gain it actually is when we use our Mastery Set+Chalice vs not doing it. Have you been able to get a good macro to do all those things required like switching to Mastery Set, popping Zerker/BS/DW, switch back to normal gear? I've had to resort to using two different macro's and its quite annoying.

    And yeah about the Expertise Rating, in the Cloudburst Set you would sit at 782 Expertise, whereas in the Bladed Set you would sit at 781 Expertise. So the question would be, would you rather sit just above the cap and suffer a 2-3 DPS loss, or sit just under the cap and possibly suffer some shitty RNG at a crucial point in your rotation?

  4. #4
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinnermighty View Post
    Yup only reason why I set it to 1700 is because we cannot set our own value currently.

    Should be very interesting to see how much a DPS gain it actually is when we use our Mastery Set+Chalice vs not doing it. Have you been able to get a good macro to do all those things required like switching to Mastery Set, popping Zerker/BS/DW, switch back to normal gear? I've had to resort to using two different macro's and its quite annoying.

    And yeah about the Expertise Rating, in the Cloudburst Set you would sit at 782 Expertise, whereas in the Bladed Set you would sit at 781 Expertise. So the question would be, would you rather sit just above the cap and suffer a 2-3 DPS loss, or sit just under the cap and possibly suffer some shitty RNG at a crucial point in your rotation?
    Honestly no, macro-wise I struggle a lot. Since I don't have the Chalice right now (using heroic Spidersilk Spindle - 433 passive mastery) what I do currently is:
    Equip Mastery-set (Dragged out to bars) > Battle Shout > Death Wish > Normal-set (macro'd into my Zerker-stance keybind) -> Rotation

    Adding in having to use Chalice will make this whole process pretty lengthy and risky when you optimally want to reduce the time between Death Wish and Pull as much as possible. All-in-all it feels like a very clumsy procedure.

    Obviously, having BS, DW and Normal-gear macro'd into the same key wouldn't work well since it'd use BS, equip normal gear and ignore DW until pushed after next GCD due to rage. I reckon you'd be forced to have two seperate macro's either way.

    Macro 1: Battle Shout > use Chalice
    Macro 2: Death Wish > Normal-set > Potion

    I'm not sure how macro 2 would actually behave, is there any risk at all (due to lagg or whatever else) of the macro to equip normal-set a millisecond before Death Wish and thus cause no benefit at all?

    I reckon I'd personally always want to be above the cap myself, I don't think it'll have that much of an importance weight.

    Edit: So the fact that I'd break my perfect 781-cap with current gear when obtaining heroic Giantslicer was kind of annoying me. I think I found the solution, http://chardev.org/?profile=263767 .
    Last edited by Apothysis; 2011-10-29 at 05:16 AM.

  5. #5
    Call me stupid but I honestly don't understand one thing.

    Why is it that you opt for using Bladed with 1/2 BV and prepull DW when, according to what you posted, it shows the smallest DPS gain in comparison to not using DW prepull? Again, bear with me here. It's almost 4am where I live + I kinda suck at math so it's not like I'm questioning your calculations (I'm grateful for them actually cause it's more understandable than EJ's usual formulas), I'd simply like some clarifications so I know how to interpret such calculations in future :>

  6. #6
    You're only boosting mastery by 1700? You're doing it wrong. Get a dedicated pre-pull mastery set, and use equipment set macros to get 60% death wishes.

  7. #7
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ssateneth View Post
    You're only boosting mastery by 1700? You're doing it wrong. Get a dedicated pre-pull mastery set, and use equipment set macros to get 60% death wishes.
    We're utilizing Landsouls spreadsheet to calculate the DPS gains here. Like mentioned above in at least two comments, Landsouls current spreadsheet does not allow a set value for pre-Mastery (only three trinket-choices).

    He was merely trying to prove that increased Mastery and pre-popping Death Wish does in fact equate to a worthwhile DPS increase, as well as comparing 1/2 BV with 2/2.

    I know it's a lot to ask to read through several pages of replies. But four? Really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimsdott View Post
    Call me stupid but I honestly don't understand one thing.

    Why is it that you opt for using Bladed with 1/2 BV and prepull DW when, according to what you posted, it shows the smallest DPS gain in comparison to not using DW prepull? Again, bear with me here. It's almost 4am where I live + I kinda suck at math so it's not like I'm questioning your calculations (I'm grateful for them actually cause it's more understandable than EJ's usual formulas), I'd simply like some clarifications so I know how to interpret such calculations in future :>
    I reckon he's made a typo or something in the original post. I myself got the following results using http://chardev.org/?profile=263767:
    1700+1/2: 38132,5161 DPS
    1700+2/2: 38122,0337 DPS
    Last edited by Apothysis; 2011-10-29 at 05:55 AM.

  8. #8
    Link me your mastery set in PM Sinner, can calc your dps win/loss using it considering max loss is a GCD from it prepull (1s). 1700 mastery isn't worth it yet, thats hardly a 35% death wish

  9. #9
    Sorry, went had a social life last night! Not doing that again

    @Ssateneth
    If you did read, or used Landsouls Spreadsheet Beta 3; you can see 1700 Mastery is the highest value you can pick for Pre-Combat Mastery.

    @ Sherea
    Will do, but this shows that even a minimal amount of Mastery can still be worth it, but at higher levels it would be much higher. Would be interested to know though, so I'll shoot you one later on today.

    @Grimsdott
    I don't think I understood your question fully, but if there's anyway to gain a DPS increase I will do it. However going 2/2BV is a 9-10 DPS loss so thats why I opted for 1/2BV. As well having a Mastery Set + Chalice Deathwish -2s before Pull, Pot, Engage is ATLEAST a 260DPS gain @ 1700 Pre-Combat Mastery. Most people will be over 4000 Pre-Combat Mastery though. So you could extrapolate that

    @Apothysis
    Thanks for helping me out
    That's an interesting Chardev profile; might have to look at it some more.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinnermighty View Post
    @Grimsdott
    I don't think I understood your question fully, but if there's anyway to gain a DPS increase I will do it. However going 2/2BV is a 9-10 DPS loss so thats why I opted for 1/2BV. As well having a Mastery Set + Chalice Deathwish -2s before Pull, Pot, Engage is ATLEAST a 260DPS gain @ 1700 Pre-Combat Mastery. Most people will be over 4000 Pre-Combat Mastery though. So you could extrapolate that
    Here's what I meant

    Bladed 1/2 BV shows 266.9052 dps increase with 1.7k mastery vs 1.2k
    Bladed 2/2 shows 271.9866 dps increase with 1.7k mastery vs 1.2k
    Cloudburst 1/2 BV shows 267.2653 dps increase with 1.7k mastery vs 1.2k
    Cloudburst 2/2 BV shows 272.2281 dps increase with 1.7k mastery vs 1.2k

    So according to what you posted, Bladed + 1/2 BV shows smallest gain in dps. Then why are you saying that it's the best option?

    I'm asking because it's simply what I'm reading and I'm not sure if I'm actually reading it right seeing how you're obviously better than me in calculating stuff and drawing conclusions (I suck at math like I said before).

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimsdott View Post
    Here's what I meant

    Bladed 1/2 BV shows 266.9052 dps increase with 1.7k mastery vs 1.2k
    Bladed 2/2 shows 271.9866 dps increase with 1.7k mastery vs 1.2k
    Cloudburst 1/2 BV shows 267.2653 dps increase with 1.7k mastery vs 1.2k
    Cloudburst 2/2 BV shows 272.2281 dps increase with 1.7k mastery vs 1.2k

    So according to what you posted, Bladed + 1/2 BV shows smallest gain in dps. Then why are you saying that it's the best option?

    I'm asking because it's simply what I'm reading and I'm not sure if I'm actually reading it right seeing how you're obviously better than me in calculating stuff and drawing conclusions (I suck at math like I said before).
    Ohh I see the confusion. What I did was:

    Bladed 1/2 BV 1700 Mastery Set DPS (37896.7176) minus Bladed 1/2 BV 1260 Mastery Set DPS (37629.8124) = 266.9052 DPS

    Bladed 2/2 BV 1700 Mastery Set (37887.6782) DPS minus Bladed 2/2 BV 1260 Mastery Set DPS (37615.6916) = 271.9866 DPS

    Cloudburst 1/2 BV 1700 Mastery Set DPS (37893.7811) minus Cloudburst 1/2 BV 1260 Mastery Set DPS (37626.5158) = 267.2653 DPS

    Cloudburst 2/2 BV 1700 Mastery Set DPS (37884.7117) minus Cloudburst 2/2 BV 1260 Mastery Set DPS (37612.4836) = 272.2281 DPS

    So yeah the confusion I suppose is you see those DPS numbers and think they co-relate with each other but they don't. They are independent. They are comparing 1/2 BV + 1700 Mastery vs 1/2 BV + 1260 mastery and then 2/2 BV + 1700 Mastery vs 2/2 BV + 1260 Mastery.

    What I was doing was trying to compare the differences between Pre-pulling 1700 Mastery -2seconds Death Wish versus 1260 Mastery Death Wish +4s. And added 4 "different" sets.

    Also trust me, I'm not better than you at calculating these stuff; I suck @ math
    Last edited by Sinnermighty; 2011-10-29 at 07:02 PM.

  12. #12
    Ah ok, I get it now. Thanks for clarification :>

  13. #13
    Great post

    Also for anyone interested, this is the pretty much BiS mastery pre-pull setup: http://chardev.org/?profile=268172

    Notes
    This list contains the highest combination of mastery items, for the biggest effect for a pre-pull death wish.

    A few items is from old content, and there are alternatives from Firelands.
    Helm: Greathelm of the Voracious Maw - Drops from Alysrazor
    Hands: Gloves of Dissolving Smoke - Drops from Shannox

    Using this set pre-pull will grant you 6360 mastery rating, which is quite a boost for your Death Wish !

    This is what my current set gives in terms of Death Wish boost, and I'm far from BiS.
    Last edited by Quenios; 2011-11-04 at 12:52 PM.

  14. #14

  15. #15


    Thats 52% with gear i scraped in 5 minutes. If i had 2x shannox hc axe + tanking tier legs + majordomo dps/beth tanking chest i think it would be over 60% (my weapons on SS are not reforged into mastery)
    Also note that we could use mastery elixir, and switch to str flask after using DW

  16. #16
    Been using this to great effect. As for macros, just make sure you use chalice before popping Death Wish, otherwise it will not benefit. I use the trinket separately during pull timer, then pop shout and after that a macro casting Death Wish, equipping normal set and using potion.

    What would be interesting for me to see would be if it is beneficial to use heroic Spidersilk Spindle in the mastery set and by doing that inducing the 30 sec cooldown on heroic AoK after pull. This would mean a better Death Wish but obviously no use of AoK during it. If anyone has put some thinking into this feel free to share!

  17. #17

  18. #18
    Ostwind from Numen? The man that keeps overtaking my Baleroc parses? >.<

    But yeah, going double mastery trinkets and swapping to AoK isn't worth it.

  19. #19
    Yeah, some favorable crit RNG saw to that

    My gut said it would be unlikely to be worth it, yeah. Now to get my hands on a firestone.

  20. #20
    Stood in the Fire esoterickk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quenios View Post
    Great post

    Also for anyone interested, this is the pretty much BiS mastery pre-pull setup: (link)
    All looks pretty strong, only change I can see thus far being the Ranged weapon. Extreme-Impact Hole Puncher being the preferred, yellow gem slot making it a total of 113 Mastery, opposed to the 85 on current. Plus it's BoE craftable - easy to obtain.

    EDIT: Also Sinestra bracers will provide 2 more Mastery rating iirc. Incredibly minor and they're cloth, so availability would probably be much less than the Domo plate ones.
    Last edited by esoterickk; 2011-11-07 at 05:18 AM.

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