1% of raiding guilds have killed Heroic Madness*

[Herecius]

I was in a higher ranked guild than you, and it didn't mean anything to me when I killed 8/8. Must be the reason why I quitted.
I think 487 guilds with 8/8 by now is a really high number. Look, if you (or anybody else) can't manage 8/8 with your current guild, you have 487 other guilds where you could apply. I would be happy to have 487 places to apply for a rl job...

Considering the fact that 487 guilds is every single guild, including 10man, the US, and EU, I'm sure that if you expanding your job search to basically the entire planet you could find 487 possible employers. 3 months in and 1% of guilds having killed content sounds about right, Rag Heroic was what.. just shy of 2% of guilds when 4.3 hit?

[UunaPriest]

What would you find ideal and why? Just curious.

Any % that includes my group 5/8H now(and since pre-nerf), haven't had any real attempts on Boat in a month due to healer musical chairs.

[Herecius]

[*]Is this simply a case of more 10man guilds overall while "hardcores" gravitate towards 25Mguilds? Or why is this?


*according to wowprogress.com

This is very likely the reason. Many 25man guilds that were more casual in the past have turned into one or more 10man guilds, reducing the number of 25mans and increasing the number of 10s, just going off of the WoWprogress numbers.

[Ethes]

Without putting too much focus on the whole "omglol Xman is harder"-discussion (I don't really care either way), it's interesting to note that this number is 0.65% for 10M guilds, and 4% for 25M.
[*]Is this simply a case of more 10man guilds overall while "hardcores" gravitate towards 25Mguilds? Or why is this?

Because on 10m you've got a very hard time adjusting your setup. You'll need high aoe dps, a 70% slow and your single target dps can't suffer too much. Which makes this fight a lot harder on 10m than 25m.

[Joán]

afaik blizzard's goal is to have 30-40% of the guilds clearing 8/8 heroic, so id go with that.

The very rare times they've actually stated that goal, the number they've always used is 5%. Which is what Ragnaros is at now, post-nerf - and the un-nerfed Nef, Al'akir and Sinestra are lower (4% on Nef and Al'akir, Sinestra as low as 2.8%), indicating that they know exactly what level of tuning will enable them to reach that goal.

30-40% is more guilds than will ever even pull it this expansion.

[Deleted]

Considering the fact that 487 guilds is every single guild, including 10man, the US, and EU, I'm sure that if you expanding your job search to basically the entire planet you could find 487 possible employers. 3 months in and 1% of guilds having killed content sounds about right, Rag Heroic was what.. just shy of 2% of guilds when 4.3 hit?

With 2% being your "ideal"? Or what's your take on it?

[Herecius]

With 2% being your "ideal"? Or what's your take on it?

I'm not really sure. I don't know if I'm qualified to really judge anything as ideal, to be honest, but mostly was just remarking that 1% 3 months into a tier sounds about right and in-line with previous tiers. Heroic Lich King was lower (less than .5% at the same time period easily), but I attribute that very largely due to the limited attempt system in ICC, and suspect it would line up well had there been unlimited attempts.

[Deleted]

Because on 10m you've got a very hard time adjusting your setup. You'll need high aoe dps, a 70% slow and your single target dps can't suffer too much. Which makes this fight a lot harder on 10m than 25m.

Sure, I can believe that. At the same time, aren't there ways to circumvent certain abilities in 10man that are not possible in 25man? For instance, and mind you this is just what I've heard so it could very possibly be wrong, isn't it possible to completely skip dps on a parasite and simply soak it with raidCDs in 10m?

[Pokty]

isn't it possible to completely skip dps on a parasite and simply soak it with raidCDs in 10m?

On platform 1 it should definitely be possible, but it's extremely risky without dream as you wouldn't be able to bring the raid up fast enough to not risk getting one-shot by crush.

[Deleted]

Sure, I can believe that. At the same time, aren't there ways to circumvent certain abilities in 10man that are not possible in 25man? For instance, and mind you this is just what I've heard so it could very possibly be wrong, isn't it possible to completely skip dps on a parasite and simply soak it with raidCDs in 10m?

It is possible to do on the first platform with Dream, but not on the others.

[Psilo.]

What would you find ideal and why? Just curious.

No more than 15% - keep in mind of how 5% is now.
With the 1-2 raid nights per week I have, Id be happy to kill Madness on HC before Pandaria(3/8 hc atm.)

[Shadowbane]

All that time investment for 1% of raiding guilds to do. Not worth it tbh.

[Deleted]

All that time investment for 1% of raiding guilds to do. Not worth it tbh.

We'll, it's hardly the case that all "time invested" goes into heroic content, and that all time invested goes into the last boss of the heroic content for that matter.
Normal madness and heroic madness mostly differ in numbers, something which should take very little time for Blizzard to sort out.

[Deleted]

Pretty normal in my opinion. There are 2 roadblocks on the way to Madness: YorSahj/Zon'Ozz and Spine of Deathwing. The more casual guilds dont get past the first and the serious guild often dont get past the latter. I think that most serious raiding guilds are now 4-5/8HC (including the guild I raid in)

[UunaPriest]

All that time investment for 1% of raiding guilds to do. Not worth it tbh.

But without it, a large chunk of people who have downed H Morchock or better would have nothing left to do in the game.

[Mcshiz]

Seems just about right to me. I'm no where near there being 3/7h but having seen what was/is required for some of those later fights it makes perfect sense.

[Cracked]

Morchok contains duplicate guilds, pugs, half pugs, alt guilds.. if anything, take hagara heroic, then you can estimate how successful RAIDERS are.

[Ethes]

But without it, a large chunk of people who have downed H Morchock or better would have nothing left to do in the game.

Heroic Morchok is easily done with a pug + the rest on normal on my realm. So if you look at it like that I also think these figures are a bit off as well

[Psilo.]

All that time investment for 1% of raiding guilds to do. Not worth it tbh.

Well, my 10man only have just about 7-8h(2 nights) per week in DS, out of that we can spend a couple of hours on 'progress', we are still killing new bosses allthough slower.
I personally believe that all you need is 10(~13) dedicated people, casuals whatever, to progress through DS Heroic. You dont have to set aside massive amounts of time to kill new HC bosses, you just have to have good 'raid ethics' and learn from mistakes.

To me its more interesting how much time people spend raiding, how much time they spent on a boss and how many wipes it took. On my server my 10man will never be server first, doesnt mean we cant do well on time spent/wipes done etc, we ask ourselves 'did we kill this in a reasonable amount of time/wipes', if the answer is 'yes' then we pat ourselves on the back for a job 'well done'. If we had the time we would raid 5 nights a week, we would, my point is - you DONT have to in order to kill bosses, more time just equals FASTER progress.
Casuals blaming 'difficulty' are full of hot air imo.

We are racing against time(10% buff) to kill more bosses before the next buff is implimented, we dont necesarily want the buff, but ofc we wouldnt be able to 'affod' to turn it off, shuld it be there.

[Torty]

Spine and Madness are just complete fail of the encounters. The most fail last boss of any instance ever seen, both difficulty and design wise.

Almost 500 guilds after less than 3 months since release is too much. Just says how much undertuned the content was and how hardly nerfed it is now.