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  1. #21
    It seems like they might as well make 2 different sets with their own exclusive bonuses if they currently don't have the feral sets perfectly itemized for either.

  2. #22
    The Lightbringer Elunedra's Avatar
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    i would not count on it if i was you, becase think at the bigger picture, things like off set items. blizzard will not make leather tanking offset items so if the tier items are the only items whit tank stats you never have a choice to use offset items.

    so they will just keep feral bears working on agi & mastery
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  3. #23
    I never said it wasn't viable, I said it isn't optimal to use two sets with the same gems and reforging for both tanking and dps int he game's current state, and that won't change with Cata. People who, right now, don't use two sets will probably not care enough to use two sets in Mists either.
    It's actually perfectly optimal to do so if you're the 2nd tank, or for specific fights (Spine, Madness, Yor'sahj, Ultra if you can time it correctly).

  4. #24
    Dreadlord Fiana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omgarsh View Post
    It seems like they might as well make 2 different sets with their own exclusive bonuses if they currently don't have the feral sets perfectly itemized for either.
    They never create "perfectly optimized" sets for any class. All classes wonder why do they have the least desirable stats on their set pieces, weapons and rings.

    Well, I never heard about such failure as in current content with ferals, when you have expertise overcap in bis gear

    I hope that blizzard heard about hit and expertise caps. So theoretically they should aim to put the amount of hit and expertise to exactly hit the cap.
    Considering that there is just one 410 item per slot it will be not so hard to do.

    So looking at blizzards laziness I would say that we have a hope. There is good chance that they will be just too lazy to create 2 separate sets for feral and guardian.

  5. #25
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Will MoP ferals need 2 tokens? No, they will only need one token. However, the new Guardian spec will most likely have its own token with bear stats on it, such as Dodge, Mastery, and Expertise. Personally, I would be thrilled if all 5 pieces of Guardian tier gear was straight Dodge/Mastery, with Guardians getting the expertise and crit from feral pieces. It seems that the value of crit is gonna fall some, while expertise will rise some. If we crit, we get to use Savage Defense or Frenzied Regen more times through a fight, possibly reaching 100% uptime on one or the other depending. Mastery's value is gonna skyrocket- we can actually stack ARMOR now! Dodge will most likely remain the same, while Agility's value will most likely plummet due to Guardians no longer having an AP/Crit based block. This spells interesting times for Ferals.

    Im wondering exactly what the enormous amounts of self-heal spell for the future. Every class I look at, they all have the option to have a ton of self healing in some form or another. Mages can essentially make themselves immune damage for a good 40 seconds straight with all the shield options they have. Warlocks self healing seems to be enormous, but judging from talents, ect, they will need the self healing to offset the damage being taken by simple casting. Warriors are actually GETTING a self-heal that is reliable in COMBAT! finally! Druids have a huge amount of self-healing. Rogues have Recuperate and Shiv-leech for decent self healing. Priests and Paladins seem to have decent healing talents that deal damage. Hunters get a self heal as well! SO many self-heals! Guardians seem to have the most powerful Self Heal of all! 30% heal for 60 rage!

    I wonder, will these classes NEED the self heals to survive? What does the future have in store for us?

    I would like to add some more emphasis on the changes to Guardian. Guardian druids seem as though they are going to want to gem for Mastery, pure Mastery, or Dodge. The effect of AP in Bear Survivability has been removed in MoP at this time. The effect of crit has been drastically reduced in MoP at this time, and is no longer. The effect of mastery has been increased a large amount. The effect of haste may have possibly increase a small amount, but probably not enough to make it worth more then any other secondary stat before capping. Because of the greatly dereased importance of crit and attack power, Agility will be worth less then dodge in terms of mitigation, unless they make it to were Agility increase Armor for druids.

    For Feral, they seem to be having the same stat priority as they do now, with changing emphasis on crit/mastery and haste depending on which major talent you pick. Picking Incarnation will give a different stat wieght then picking the other talents from the same tier.

    You will no longer want the same gear shared between Feral and Guardian in MoP
    Last edited by Raugnaut; 2012-02-22 at 06:41 AM. Reason: Read through posts stating that Agility and Crit will still be useful
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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeyIllidan View Post
    I can argue this change very easily. Cat and Bear being under one spec is the sole reason I chose this class 3 years ago. Without making a giant debate, I'm firmly behind the people who believe this is a HUGE mistake, and a step backwards for our class. I chose a hybrid. I did not choose a rogue with cat form. I did not choose a warrior who looked like a bear. I chose a f****** hybrid, and now Blizzard is looking to make me just another run of the mill DPS.
    They took your ability to be a hybrid away in WotLK since a hybrid spec between cat and bear wasn't optimal at all anyways, you would have been a shit tank who could do shit dps when he wasn't needed to tank. No, even now, having 2 specs and 2 separate sets of gear is simply more optimal.

    And now you come here and whine about it? Seems to me you should have shown some spine back then.
    Last edited by Rocketbear; 2012-02-22 at 07:42 AM.
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  7. #27
    The effect of crit has been drastically reduced in MoP at this time, and is no longer.
    Perhaps you should look at Mangle, Primal Fury, Savage Defense, and Frenzied Regen.

    For Feral, they seem to be having the same stat priority as they do now, with changing emphasis on crit/mastery and haste depending on which major talent you pick. Picking Incarnation will give a different stat wieght then picking the other talents from the same tier.
    No it won't. Out of the average extra 10 or so Mangles you get in a 30 second period from Incarnation, only one of them has to Crit in order for the talent to be better than Soul of the Forest. And we don't know what FoN does.

    You will no longer want the same gear shared between Feral and Guardian in MoP
    Set bonuses are the reason to add a 4th token set for Bears. Otherwise the stat priority actually hasn't changed thus far. The only thing we don't know is where Mastery ends up, because that's impossible to know without knowing what the boss damage is relative to stats.

  8. #28
    its ok bears fart typhoons
    N

  9. #29
    It's pretty absurd how a feral can switch between tank/dps on progression. At least in 10 man it's pretty huge when you can gear one player for two roles.
    I don't really have two sets on progression, I just carry around some gems/enchants/whatever and reforge for whatever I'm doing on a specific boss.

    I don't think it's gonna change that much except they might split the tier into two sets for different set bonuses, however that hasn't really been a problem until T13 so yeah.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Kioga View Post
    Now that Blizz is actually splitting feral DPS and tanking(Guardian), will that mean we now have to win a token for each spec? I realize that other classes have had to do this since the beginning but it just feels like another example of Blizz stripping away the uniqueness and versatility of the class.
    No one outside Blizzard knows at the moment, but I think it's highly unlikely. What they are trying to accomplish with this change is to nerf feral dps in situations where a tank doesn't have to actually tank anything, not make it more complicated to get tier bonuses. You'll be able to use the same gear, but you need to decide BEFORE the fight which role to fill by changing your spec.'

    That's what I think anyway..
    Last edited by Pokty; 2012-02-22 at 02:58 PM.

  11. #31
    It seems to me that, other than tier bonus set, the only reason to make 2 different token pieces for kitty vs bear is if they plan to go BACK to having BC-style tanking leather. The only reason to go back to that is because, with the addition of the Monk class that will DPS and Tank in leather, there will be two classes that could make use of true tanking leather.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Fiana View Post
    Reforging takes just 10 seconds. Regemming is not really needed. Enchants will be sub-optimal, but not useless.
    Feral was the only true hybrid dps-tank that was able to become full tank in just several minutes.

    Half of the bosses in current content require just 1 tank instead of 2. If you talk about normal mode, you need just 1 tank for all bosses but Ultraxion. If you talk about firelands heroic, the only boss where 2 tanks were needed was beth'tilac.

    So having a tank that is able to switch between tank and dps is a must. Either this, or you have to bench your tank for every second boss, which is ridiculous, especially for 10man.

    Also its not only about raiding. Not more than 5% of wow players actually raid. Feral cat was always able to tank heroics in his cat gear. That greatly increased amount of available tanks and reduced LFD queue times.

    So instead of removing the hybridness of ferals, its better to let other tanks to have the same utility.
    Actually, I will throw the exact opposite point at you:

    Why have feral Druid gotten two full expansions with this as a luxury bonus, while all other tanks have to run two separate specs and gear, to get the same benefit? What makes Druid the special snowflake to get this?

    Right there is the mirrored argument to your statement. All this is doing is putting Druids on the same playing field as every other multi-role class in the game (even though they are the sole class that can do all 4 stylized roles: Melee DPS, Tank, Ranged DPS, and Heal).

    Does this mean you lose out on being able to have a single sub-optimal spec and gear set to do both jobs (fine for normals obviously), AND carry a different spec for whatever? Yup, welcome to the other 9 (soon to be 10) classes.

    Does this mean there will be a separate Guardian set? Good chance, but no guarantee until we see that come to light, since Guardians will still use the same general stats as Ferals (and Rogues and Monks). Not going to argue stat specifics. Now, it IS possible Tanking Leather may return, since we got a second Leather tank in MoP too (see: Brewmaster Monks).

    Does this mean you are speccing to be a Rogue or a Warrior? No. They may use the same resource mechanics, but they do play outright differently. Besides, this means they can properly emphasis MORE survivability to Bears without risking it affecting Cats too. That is called a GOOD thing. Plus, it helps balance the DPS vs Survivability matters for PvP too. Welcome to being a real DPS or real Tank class, and not a blend of both. Welcome to the masses.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroEdgeir View Post
    Actually, I will throw the exact opposite point at you:

    Why have feral Druid gotten two full expansions with this as a luxury bonus, while all other tanks have to run two separate specs and gear, to get the same benefit? What makes Druid the special snowflake to get this?

    Right there is the mirrored argument to your statement. All this is doing is putting Druids on the same playing field as every other multi-role class in the game (even though they are the sole class that can do all 4 stylized roles: Melee DPS, Tank, Ranged DPS, and Heal).
    Actually, it's got nothing to do with being the "special snowflake" and more to do with Blizz wanting to economise on gear by making ferals share leather with rogues.

    Druids were supposed to be multi-role rather than hybrid and used to be able to swap roles. Back in TBC, I used to enjoy filling all (dps / tanking / healing) roles during a single Kara run depending on what was required for each fight - with a single spec and three gear sets. There's no way you can do that now and I can't even tank in my dps spec anymore due lack of crit immunity etc.

    This was actually made druids different but this change is another nail in the coffin as far as I'm concerned.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeyIllidan View Post
    I can argue this change very easily. Cat and Bear being under one spec is the sole reason I chose this class 3 years ago. Without making a giant debate, I'm firmly behind the people who believe this is a HUGE mistake, and a step backwards for our class. I chose a hybrid. I did not choose a rogue with cat form. I did not choose a warrior who looked like a bear. I chose a f****** hybrid, and now Blizzard is looking to make me just another run of the mill DPS.
    You can always purchase dual-spec like all the other hybrids.
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  15. #35
    Actually, I will throw the exact opposite point at you:

    Why have feral Druid gotten two full expansions with this as a luxury bonus, while all other tanks have to run two separate specs and gear, to get the same benefit? What makes Druid the special snowflake to get this?
    It was a limitation of Blizzard's existing talent system.

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