Hand of Sac the impale - heroic madness

[PalawinFC]

I'm looking to better understand what will kill a paladin healer if he HoSacs on madness heroic

Basically we will need to have a warrior solo-tanking our next madness kills, and for her to live through the impales she needs to stack 2x damage reduction cooldowns per impale or the goblin goes splat.

What I would like to know, is if we are using 1x cooldown (like shield wall/dream or pain sup - only 40%) and a paladin also hand of sacrifices (without bubble) does the pala get 1-shot or close to it?

On 10s, impale hits for 840k damage, so assuming a 40% cooldown only = 840k*.6 = 504k damage. If 30% is transferred = 151k damage (should survive but too close for comfort).

Where do absorbs (like PW Shield, Shield Slam shield, AoH Trinket) factor in the damage chain? Are these taking before the HoSac damage transfers or after?

Obviously before would be amazing.

There's a lot of irrelevant information in this thread so i'll try to answer the original question.
Hand of Sac operates off the final damage taken by the tank so it is calculated after the tanks cooldowns and absorbs are applied. Therefore using it with shield wall or dream or pain sup should never kill you, especially if you unglyphed DP as well. Another thing to keep in mind is if your prot warrior has 4-set then his shield wall should also reduce the damage you take even further.
I believe absorbs are applied before damage is transferred, so power word shield/illuminated mastery on the tank will reduce the damage you take and a power word shield on you will also work on HoS damage taken.

The only problem with completely relying on sac the way you are proposing is that the first parasite will coincide with the first impale and if it targets you, you will be taking quite big damage. And if you're solo tank/2 healing its going to be quite stressful to keep you alive, especially when you have to move and heal.

Just as a note: someone mentioned 'saving' bubble for HoS 5th platform adds; HoS on a tank will not kill you because the damage is from several hits (melee and ticks of tetanus) rather than from a 1 off. HoS automatically stops after you've taken 100% of your health, and will only kill you if you take that 100% in one go. So as long as you receive a heal greater than 30% of the next tick of damage on the tank, you should always survive.

[Skulldancer]

Im using a mastery build so I pre heal to about a 55k mastery bubble with sac sometimes .... takes 0-10k dmg on tank. I've only did it on reg but im sure the same thing should apply

[Deleted]

Just as a note: someone mentioned 'saving' bubble for HoS 5th platform adds; HoS on a tank will not kill you because the damage is from several hits (melee and ticks of tetanus) rather than from a 1 off. HoS automatically stops after you've taken 100% of your health, and will only kill you if you take that 100% in one go. So as long as you receive a heal greater than 30% of the next tick of damage on the tank, you should always survive.

You will have to bubble regardless. You will take 20-80% fire damage due to Deathwing bleeding for yourself (depending on which set of Terrors you Hosac).

Also our tanks have 400k hp during terrors and they get hit for 200k or more. Say Hosac transferred 90% of your health, and the tank takes a 200k hit it will transfer 30% of that 200k hit regardless of your hp transferred at that time. It can be good possible you've transferred 180% by the time it wears off. It's also possible to transfer multiple hits even if you're already over the 100% hp cap due to a short server confirmation between the target, the server, you, the server, the target.

In short: if we don't bubble, we die. I forgot it once, tried to save myself with Lay on Hands (I was at 30% hp or something) and still I died from Hand of Sacrifice (a 80k Hosac damage taken on myself, tanks didn't die on those terrors but I did..)

Im using a mastery build so I pre heal to about a 55k mastery bubble with sac sometimes .... takes 0-10k dmg on tank. I've only did it on reg but im sure the same thing should apply

Nah you don't. This means you'd have to heal 400k ish on the tank in the time the Mutated Corruption is channeling impale. Seems very unlikely. Also this is for heroic madness not normal mode, cheers.

Hand of Sacrifice
Places a Hand on the party or raid member, transferring 30% damage taken to the caster. Lasts 12 sec or until the caster has transferred 100% of their maximum health. Players may only have one Hand on them per Paladin at any one time.

Ignorance is bliss.

And wow tooltips are generally not always a thing to look at. (EG. Disc priests Reflective Shield tooltip)

[Rosenstolz]

You can sac without using any cd for yourself.
If you die tho the tank probably didn't use his own cd or someone didn't put external cd on him.

[Deleted]

Ok - thank you all very much. Seems like the answers i am after are in here (big thanks to wiki/palawin!)

[PalawinFC]

You will have to bubble regardless. You will take 20-80% fire damage due to Deathwing bleeding for yourself (depending on which set of Terrors you Hosac).

Also our tanks have 400k hp during terrors and they get hit for 200k or more. Say Hosac transferred 90% of your health, and the tank takes a 200k hit it will transfer 30% of that 200k hit regardless of your hp transferred at that time. It can be good possible you've transferred 180% by the time it wears off. It's also possible to transfer multiple hits even if you're already over the 100% hp cap due to a short server confirmation between the target, the server, you, the server, the target.

In short: if we don't bubble, we die. I forgot it once, tried to save myself with Lay on Hands (I was at 30% hp or something) and still I died from Hand of Sacrifice (a 80k Hosac damage taken on myself, tanks didn't die on those terrors but I did..)

I get what you're saying about the sac damage as well as the pulsing aoe being enough to kill you without a lot of healing (or bubble).
Our tanks manage tetanus really well so its not really an issue for me, so I guess do whatever works for you.

All I am saying for the sake of the op/confusion in the thread is that Sac will not kill you unless a) your tank transfers to you more than 100% of your hp in 1 hit, or b) during the entire duration of HoS you do not get healing greater than the last hit you take.