Thoughts on PvP, Arenas and Warzones

[jaakkeli]

Yes, but you'd be in an another team and not alone. That means heals and Guard, plus taunts.

Yes, taunts are great. So why take a Merc instead of a Powertech?

You can't shut down a PT like you can shut down an Arsenal merc, PT is very mobile and melee range requirement isn't huge as PT isn't gimped outside immediate melee range as long as they get close regularily enough to use RP/RB on cooldown and they have auto snare with their attacks. Powertech brings taunts, fast interrupts (Merc is the only class that can't interrupt!), AoE stun, better sustainable damage, grapple (good for countering guard with its short range)...

What does a Merc have over PT? A 1 minute cooldown cc and knockback is pretty bad compared to what Powertech has for arena. Ability to cleanse tech would be the only potentially bright spot... but that would be bright only because it's the counter to the Pyro Powertech...

[Infighter]

Assault burst? Really?

They rely on two dots (Incendiary/Plasma Cell), a 3-4 second timed grenade, and High Impact Bolt. The dots deal mediocre damage until execute range and are easily cleansed. That leaves Assault Plastique and HIB which both deal fairly good damage. However if you're bursting down a healer, you have to hope and pray that your HIB crits and that a quick Full Auto will proc Ionic Accelerator to reset your HIB, otherwise you're stuck either Hammer Shotting or trying to use Charged Bolts while they heal to full. Compared to the Grav Round x3 + Demo Round, Assault Spec's burst is worse. The benefit in switching to Assault is the increase in mobility over Gunnery.

Also, it takes one melee to shut down a Gunnery Commando unless the other team literally blows all their CCs on him like idiots. The other teammates can go after other opponents.On my Scoundrel, Arsenal Mercs get at most one Tracer Missile off in between the interrupt, Dirty Kick, interrupt before they're dead.

I don't know all of the Trooper's names so I'll use the Merc ones.

You're forgetting about how much damage Thermal Detonator, Power Shot and Rail shot do when they go off all together: that's BURST. And a big one as well. Followed by an Unload and another Rail Shot, together with your other dps/tank attacking the same target, that's probably a Sorc/ dps Sin dead or a lot of damage to heal. Sure it can only done every 15s and probably with Arsenal you'd do more damage in the same time frame, but you're trading that damage for mobility and vulnerability to Interrupts which would probably screw that kill.

And that's another good point about Pyros, they actually have the capability of kiting. Also for some reason you keep thinking that your teammates are afk while you are getting pounded.

Anyway, I don't think I can change your mind about Mercs and to be honest I really don't care about doing it at all, so let's simply agree to disagree. We have different opinions and yadda yadda.

Yes, taunts are great. So why take a Merc instead of a Powertech?

You can't shut down a PT like you can shut down an Arsenal merc, PT is very mobile and melee range requirement isn't huge as PT isn't gimped outside immediate melee range as long as they get close regularily enough to use RP/RB on cooldown and they have auto snare with their attacks. Powertech brings taunts, fast interrupts (Merc is the only class that can't interrupt!), AoE stun, better sustainable damage, grapple (good for countering guard with its short range)...

What does a Merc have over PT? A 1 minute cooldown cc and knockback is pretty bad compared to what Powertech has for arena. Ability to cleanse tech would be the only potentially bright spot... but that would be bright only because it's the counter to the Pyro Powertech...

We're not talking which class is better, we're talking if Mercs are viable. As I pointed before, a Sorc brings everything a Merc does but more aside from type of armor... that doesn't make Merc not-viable, though.

[jaakkeli]

We're not talking which class is better, we're talking if Mercs are viable. As I pointed before, a Sorc brings everything a Merc does but more aside from type of armor... that doesn't make Merc not-viable, though.

Not-viable simply means much worse in the same role than another class or spec. Merc looks so badly inferior to the Powertech (or a Sorc or even a Sniper) in essentially the same role that it's fair to say Merc would not be a viable arena class.

And I'd be willing to claim that having multiple taunts (and multiple aoe taunts!) is simply so powerful that PT, Assassin and Jugg would be practically the only viable DPS classes for SWToR arena...

...which is why introducing arena to SWToR would necessarily mean nerfing taunt for DPS specs in PvP and we get back to the original subject, that is, introducing arena would require some pretty huge balance changes in the game so it does influence the rest of the game (either that or arena would be so unbalanced it would be silly). Personally I wouldn't mind much as the changes it would necessitate would probably make warzone PvP better as well and I don't care much about PvE but that was the original subject...

[KrazyK923]

As for the maps, don't make anything more than a basic, normal arena map. Avoid eruptic cannons, flame that rise every 5sec. No RNG elements in general. Let the best team win, with no luck involved. The winner should be decided by his skill, timing and coordination.

I don't think you understand how rock-paper-scissors pvp systems like this and WoW's works...

[bcbully]

You are blessed OP Ilun works on your server

[kalamitis]

I don't think you understand how rock-paper-scissors pvp systems like this and WoW's works...

I think that you didn't understand what I've written. When I'm saying that I don't want any RNG elements in generals, I mean that I don't want a fucking water pillar coming in the middle of arena to kill me, I don't want random shit coming to hit me and in general no PvE aspects in arenas. Let them make acid and fire pools but in a fixed place, so they won't be abused and won't appear randomly.

Right now, the most overpowered classes in terms of utility are Marauders/Sentinels
Marauders/Sentinels have Trauma, a healing decrease like WoW's mortal strike and also Bloodthirst, the inequivalent of BLOODLUST

Snipers/Gunslinger have great potential but they need some changes. Mercs/Commandos are very good. Just don't play PvP in Arsenal/Gunnery spec. Pyro/Assault Specialist gives much more mobility, heat/ammo is generated much faster. Mercs/Commandos are also very good healers with a strong healing burst if needed.


Here some guys trying some arenas in SWTOR, looks good don't you think?

[Ghosty]

You can see from the last few pages of this thread why deathmatch style arena would ruin pvp in swtor. Once one class was marked as not being viable the nerf /buff train starts rolling and pretty soon you have the same problems that WoW is having with the arenas. Tying the best pvp gear to such a system would only compound the problem. The WZ's are fun because the classes and game was designed around 8v8 pvp. Larger or smaller scale battles tend to exclude certain classes due to inherit limitations in design (eg turret specs in small scale environments and melee classes in larger scale battles). I'm looking forward to see what Bioware comes up with in regards to a rated pvp system, but for me I don't think a death match arena system (ala WoW) is the answer for swtor.

[kalamitis]

As far as there's no combat log, anyone can say that his class is underpowered or overpowered. And to begin with, there is mumbling about unbalanced from some players now. Devs decided that Operatives/Scoundrels where OP, they got nerfed. They though Juggernauts/Guardians hadn't enough mobility, they got buffed. Nerfs/Buffs are part of mmos and are actually good as soon as they don't screw up core class mechanics.

Larger or smaller scale battles tend to exclude certain classes due to inherit limitations in design (eg turret specs in small scale environments and melee classes in larger scale battles).

I agree with this. My opinion is that 3 or 4 members are considered a team, and with a correct team coordination, a turret spec like the sniper can do wonders. As long as the tank taunts and protects, knockbacks are used to prevent enemies attacking the sniper, they can do wonders.

[jamesace]

Please don't suggest they do arenas for PvP. It will kill the fun that a well played Voidstar/Alderaan is. Anyways, if you wanted an arena, you've already got it. Its called "Hutt Ball"