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  1. #21
    Dreadlord Sentinel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balfire View Post
    Man I have very little interest in playing a Warrior but these are some of the best videos of gameplay I've seen yet :S.

    Offtopic: Has anyone seen any gameplay for Rangers/Ranged Warriors out from the press beta?
    I haven't found much of the gun warrior (click this, should be at 9:23), but I will say that if you liked the idea of the Engineer ONLY their technological/gun side, not anything much about their flamethrower or grenades, the warrior is awesome; a true gunman. You know, if you don't count a rifle-only engineer...

    There is some pretty good ranger gameplay, though:

    Last edited by Sentinel; 2012-02-22 at 05:54 AM.
    "This one last bullet you mention is my one last shot at redemption, because I know to live you must give your life away."

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  2. #22
    Oh, nevermind.

  3. #23
    Scarab Lord Arkenaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by omlech View Post
    Oh, nevermind.
    Welcome to press beta, please take a complimentary desk cushion for headdesking.

    Edit: lol what just happened.


  4. #24
    Stood in the Fire Cyphran's Avatar
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    That French warrior was really impressive.

    When he took on that big troll at the end you could see he tried to pull it to a position where he had lots of room to dodge (instead of the tunnel). Even when he aggroed the add he was still able to deal with it effectively and continue dodging. From what I've read, I think that bird that popped up and helped him is the human racial (depending on which god you choose). It allowed him to put another target in melee range while re positioning himself and healing.

    He fought that other big mob for about a minute before the Guardian turned up and soaked all the melee hits. Once the Guardian set himself up as a punching bag the warrior was free to dps.When the mob turned to him he simply got out of melee range and left the Guardian as the more attractive target. Sucks to be the Guardian Now, if both of them had been dodging in and out of combat, the Guardian would have never been in danger. It would have been a little harder for the warrior, but he would have adapted well imo.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Arkenaw View Post
    Welcome to press beta, please take a complimentary desk cushion for headdesking.

    Edit: lol what just happened.
    My original post was because I thought he blew his elite on a normal mob. I didn't max the window yet because I like to determine if a video is worth watching before letting anything buffer in HD. Turns out it was a champion so I guess it was worth it.

  6. #26
    After watching some of these PvE videos of the dungeon content, I feel worried now too. At first I attributed it to the overall lack of melee footage in general, but the more and more I look at the PvE videos of players just ranging mobs down scares me a tad bit. While I appreciate the fact that traditionally melee classes have the ability to pump out dmg at range, it shouldn't be a comparable substitute for mixing it up. A warrior should be a maximum effectiveness in melee and a ranger should be optimum at range. So far it looks like this idea is good in theory but what's been shown is that it's not practical.

    I'm going to be maining a Thief. I've always and forever will play the thief/rogue archetype in MMOs or RPG. It just resonates with me on a deeply personal level... anyhoo. I immediately draw up the presumption that thieves, being the lowest hp and armor of melee centered professions, will be under powered. While ultimately skill will be the deciding factor, I don't want to be faced in situations where I have play flawlessly in order to beat the other guy who only has to be mediocre to pull out a win. It's like playing Dan in Street Fighter against anyone else. He's always been made to be a joke and one of the worst characters in the game on purpose. If 2 players of equal skill play against each other, hell even if they are somewhat close to the same skill, the one with Dan will lose 99% of the time.

    While I want a good challenge and I'm eager to dive into GW2 and the Thief profession, I don't want to get the feeling I'm playing the Dan of GW2.

  7. #27
    Immortal Noomz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by omlech View Post
    Watch the 3rd video here:

    http://www.jeuxonline.info/actualite...nts-dynamiques

    99% of the people from this beta are absolutely terrible at the game. They don't weapon swap, don't dodge, don't actually know what their abilities do or understand how to use them in conjunction with each other, they don't use cross profession combos, they don't use positioning, they don't use class mechanics, they heal at the wrong time, when they start dying they suddenly spam their utility skills as if that'll save them, they don't actually know what their utility skills even do, and on and on...
    Just imagine how it'll be on release. Hundreds of thousands of players without a clue.

  8. #28
    You guys seemed to be starting to see my point...

    My concern isn't that you can't dodge in and out to avoid damage. My concern is that playing a melee class will be such a pain in the ass due to having to be within melee range that people will just resort to using their ranged attacks. There isn't anything wrong with being able to switch to ranged when you need, but what's the point in playing a warrior if you are getting your face raped unless you are constantly darting in and out, meanwhile the ranged are standing there side stepping a few big red circles and laughing their DPS to the bank.

    The french warrior showed how it should be done solo, but solo kiting has always been pretty easy because the monster paths predictably and the attacks are predictable. When things get hard is trying to kite and dodge attacks when you have other people with you that you can't predict. The mob walks all over, you dodge an attack only to end up in AE attack targeted at someone else. Its one thing to coordinate a raid and position people, but most DE's are going to be giant clusters with people just throwing themselves against the mob. Now if GW2 allows you to beat encounters this way then they become trivial exercises that require no skill. If you can't overcome them this way then only the people who can manage to organize themselves enough will beat the content.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
    I haven't found much of the gun warrior (click this, should be at 9:23), but I will say that if you liked the idea of the Engineer ONLY their technological/gun side, not anything much about their flamethrower or grenades, the warrior is awesome; a true gunman. You know, if you don't count a rifle-only engineer...

    There is some pretty good ranger gameplay, though:
    -snip-
    Thanks a lot I really like the adventurer out on his own kinda of feel in Roleplay and I feel like I will be able to carry that out more in this game than any other with the dynamic events I can just wonder around in my free time looking for action.

    I feel like warrior and ranger fit this archetype the best with thief as a possible option as well. I'm trying to decide which to start with I'm sure one will be my main. Though I honestly also love casters for PvP mesmer and elementalist have my eye as possible alts when I prefer the high class or travelling wizard feel.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaerin View Post
    You guys seemed to be starting to see my point...

    My concern isn't that you can't dodge in and out to avoid damage. My concern is that playing a melee class will be such a pain in the ass due to having to be within melee range that people will just resort to using their ranged attacks. There isn't anything wrong with being able to switch to ranged when you need, but what's the point in playing a warrior if you are getting your face raped unless you are constantly darting in and out, meanwhile the ranged are standing there side stepping a few big red circles and laughing their DPS to the bank.

    The french warrior showed how it should be done solo, but solo kiting has always been pretty easy because the monster paths predictably and the attacks are predictable. When things get hard is trying to kite and dodge attacks when you have other people with you that you can't predict. The mob walks all over, you dodge an attack only to end up in AE attack targeted at someone else. Its one thing to coordinate a raid and position people, but most DE's are going to be giant clusters with people just throwing themselves against the mob. Now if GW2 allows you to beat encounters this way then they become trivial exercises that require no skill. If you can't overcome them this way then only the people who can manage to organize themselves enough will beat the content.
    Melee do normally get the short straw for these things sadly. Just look at Vindictus where the only true melee dodge character is considered to be the worst and has no real benefits to offer. The huge downside of being melee is that it's going to be a lot harder you for to have the uptime on a boss that ranged players will. You'll find that you need to learn to be risky and avoid attacks with minimal movement most times to keep up with ranged. Now they could change this in someway but it is something to keep in mind for people who are undecided. A skilled risky player will almost always out damage a skilled player that plays it too safe.

    Also trust me on one thing. Dodging a huge boss that is targeting you becomes a lot easier than dodging something that is after someone else. When it's always after you, you will easily adapt with the moves. When it's switching players all the time you have to handle dodging attacks from angles you aren't used to. I really hope they don't make it as extreme as Vindictus though where 1-2 solid hits will instantly kill you in the higher instances. If they did I would be forced to play a "safer" way than melee.

  11. #31
    Immortal Noomz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaerin View Post
    You guys seemed to be starting to see my point...

    My concern isn't that you can't dodge in and out to avoid damage. My concern is that playing a melee class will be such a pain in the ass due to having to be within melee range that people will just resort to using their ranged attacks. There isn't anything wrong with being able to switch to ranged when you need, but what's the point in playing a warrior if you are getting your face raped unless you are constantly darting in and out, meanwhile the ranged are standing there side stepping a few big red circles and laughing their DPS to the bank.

    The french warrior showed how it should be done solo, but solo kiting has always been pretty easy because the monster paths predictably and the attacks are predictable. When things get hard is trying to kite and dodge attacks when you have other people with you that you can't predict. The mob walks all over, you dodge an attack only to end up in AE attack targeted at someone else. Its one thing to coordinate a raid and position people, but most DE's are going to be giant clusters with people just throwing themselves against the mob. Now if GW2 allows you to beat encounters this way then they become trivial exercises that require no skill. If you can't overcome them this way then only the people who can manage to organize themselves enough will beat the content.
    I think this game expects you to switch stances and weapons, so that you can utilize skills and versatility to the max in all fights. Thieves seem to have no trouble holding up in a toe-to-toe.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Noomz View Post
    I think this game expects you to switch stances and weapons, so that you can utilize skills and versatility to the max in all fights. Thieves seem to have no trouble holding up in a toe-to-toe.
    Someone said that changing weapons in combat is on a 20s CD so you're not going to be flipping back and forth that fast. I'm not sure where you are seeing that thieves are holding up because all the videos I've seen show that when someone stands and takes the hits, although pets seem to be able to tank for a while, they get just pounded. I think we just need to see more video before we can definitively say how this all works for sure.

  13. #33
    Scarab Lord Roose's Avatar
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    I understand the concerns, but I seriously doubt they just ignored melee viability. It is theoretically half of the game if you divide it into melee/caster roles.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaerin View Post
    Someone said that changing weapons in combat is on a 20s CD so you're not going to be flipping back and forth that fast. I'm not sure where you are seeing that thieves are holding up because all the videos I've seen show that when someone stands and takes the hits, although pets seem to be able to tank for a while, they get just pounded. I think we just need to see more video before we can definitively say how this all works for sure.
    When you're in combat it's a 10 second cooldown on your weapon swapping, and when you're not in combat you can swap as much as you want with no CD.

    As seen here when Lewis play, around 17:45 he swap weapons when still in combat, it's a 10 sec CD, and it's no CD out of combat.



    Also, enemies in Guild Wars 2 works like that they will attack the one closest to them, so if a Guardian starts with running up to this enemy, tanking it for a bit, and since there is no friendly-targeting heal, he will go out of HP after a while, and someone else must take the tanking role. That said, the Guardian dodges out, and an Elementalist can jump in with Earth attunement start tanking for a while until the Guardian got his health up and some CDs available.

    That's teamwork!
    Last edited by Eiserne Drossel; 2012-02-22 at 08:49 PM.

  15. #35
    Scarab Lord Roose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eiserne Drossel View Post
    When you're in combat it's a 10 second cooldown on your weapon swapping, and when you're not in combat you can swap as much as you want with no CD.
    Excellent. I also heard of ways to eliminate the CD. Again, I welcome this system because I am used to shapeshifting and really loved doing it. Hammer and sword & board here I come.

  16. #36
    The guardian looks very interesting, equip a hammer an its similar to a ret paladin, equip a staff and its like a melee spell caster, its looked pretty cool.

    The classes are so unique, you can even play a warrior and equip a gun to become a ranged class, its crazy as I keep saying I just cant wait to try this game out.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Eiserne Drossel View Post
    When you're in combat it's a 10 second cooldown on your weapon swapping, and when you're not in combat you can swap as much as you want with no CD.
    -snip-
    If I remember right warriors have lower CDs for weapon swaps as the "Master of Arms" class. So the default for the rest is probably 20!

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Flimsy View Post
    The guardian looks very interesting, equip a hammer an its similar to a ret paladin, equip a staff and its like a melee spell caster, its looked pretty cool.

    The classes are so unique, you can even play a warrior and equip a gun to become a ranged class, its crazy as I keep saying I just cant wait to try this game out.
    I would say that Guardian using a staff is more like a buffer, debuffer and a ground holder. You give boons (boons are the good things in Guild Wars 2, like buffs.) to your friendly players around you, and you take away conditions on your friendly players as well (conditions are the bad stuff in Guild Wars 2, like a debuff.)

    You place lines on the ground which enemies can't cross, only friendly players, and circles which gives you boons, and damages the enemy.

    So I would say more of a buffer, and ground controller 8D

    Quote Originally Posted by Balfire View Post
    If I remember right warriors have lower CDs for weapon swaps as the "Master of Arms" class. So the default for the rest is probably 20!
    That I didn't know actually, could be possible! And Elementalist and Engineer are the only 2 professions without weapon swapping at all.

  19. #39
    There are a couple of things to consider. Melee swings are normally wider than range and harder to dodge because of the quicker animation. And range attack can be body block too. Moreover, in PvP many professions have skills that negate range attacks, so melee might work better depends on the setup.

  20. #40
    I just can't wait to see how well the Dagger/Dagger Ele is going to be balanced. Without any form of weapon switch, they're stuck in meele range (though they do have 3 different speed boosts/charges). I plan on playing one and can't wait to master the fighting style. (besides everyone will just assume caster=ranged when it's simply not the case...except greatsword mesmer sword beam ftw)

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