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  1. #621
    Brewmaster
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    I don't think it was PEDs alone. The game was so skewed in favor of pitching by 1968, the MLB incorporated several rules changes to balance things out again. The DH was introduced in the AL (the weaker hitting league at the time,) the mount was lowered to 10-inches, and the strike zone was made smaller. I'd like to think that pitchers have also gotten a lot better since the 70s...they're more athletic and also smarter than ever. Look at that Trevor Bauer kid the D'Backs have and Aroldis Chapman with his 105mph fastball...
    "Wrong. Deterrence deflects 100% of Iron Prison (Not tomb) dmg." -Jaydenkor, 2014


  2. #622
    The Lightbringer draynay's Avatar
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    pitchers juice too, in case people are forgetting about Clemens or the 150 games worth of suspensions Guillermo Mota has racked up

  3. #623
    Fluffy Kitten conscript's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    pitchers juice too, in case people are forgetting about Clemens or the 150 games worth of suspensions Guillermo Mota has racked up
    It has more to do with the loss of greenies than anything. Now that the MLB actually tests for amphetamines in addition to PEDs its impossible to use them. You can get away with the testosterone if you do it correctly. Amphetamines are something you have to take around the time of the game to be effective. Its not like they were a new phenomenon like steroids were. Hank Aaron has said they all used greenies back in the day. The loss of those has nuked the league wide ability more than steroids has.

  4. #624
    Quote Originally Posted by conscript View Post
    It has more to do with the loss of greenies than anything.
    Failing a test for amphetamine is just a warning, with further testing, rather than a suspension... I thought.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    This is frankly, really god damn fucking stupid.
    Potato.

  5. #625
    Fluffy Kitten conscript's Avatar
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    Matt Kemp got ejected last night for yelling "Lets go Dre" to Andre Ethier who was batting lol. Baseball needs to really crackdown on their horrible umps that always want to put themselves in the spotlight.

  6. #626
    What? Really? that's screwed up, last i heard there was no rule against giving your team mate some support, methinks Mattingly got tossed for telling them umps that call was bullshit and they know it!
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  7. #627
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    not to be devil's advocate (because honestly, the ump was way off base) but Kemp had been barking at the guy for a bit, got told to keep it to himself, THEN "let's go, Dre" which honestly is a crappy reason for the ump to throw him out, but there ya have it. Selig wants to keep the game relevant, he needs to remind these umpires that they are not the game, they are not the reason the fans buy tickets, they are not God.
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  8. #628
    there's a huge difference between chirping about balls & strikes and saying "lets go dre" - you get the feeling that ump wanted to toss someone and unfortunately its happened far too often this season that its been the case the umpires went out knowing someone was getting tossed, this was a case like that.
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  9. #629
    Fluffy Kitten conscript's Avatar
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    Wow Melky Cabrera should consider himself lucky to only get 50 games under the new CBA. He should get an entire year or more with the stunt he tried to pull. Apparently his positive test came in July and they appealed it to the league. During the appeals process, his camp created a fake website to try and get his suspension thrown out. If a player unknowingly takes a banned substance, their suspension can be reduced or eliminated. So Cabrera claimed his positive test came as a result of taking a substance he didn't know contained the testosterone. Then his camp created a fake website to "sell" the product he claims to have taken to create a fake trail to prove it was an accident. Baseball saw it was fake in about two seconds.

  10. #630
    Quote Originally Posted by conscript View Post
    Wow Melky Cabrera should consider himself lucky to only get 50 games under the new CBA. He should get an entire year or more with the stunt he tried to pull. Apparently his positive test came in July and they appealed it to the league. During the appeals process, his camp created a fake website to try and get his suspension thrown out. If a player unknowingly takes a banned substance, their suspension can be reduced or eliminated. So Cabrera claimed his positive test came as a result of taking a substance he didn't know contained the testosterone. Then his camp created a fake website to "sell" the product he claims to have taken to create a fake trail to prove it was an accident. Baseball saw it was fake in about two seconds.
    Wow that's ridiculous, but to be honest some things other teams have done to try and cover up cheating from one of their players don't even make this seem that surprising. Also, I really don't like how lenient the league is on drug cheats, especially considering how many players do it.

  11. #631
    Quote Originally Posted by conscript View Post
    Wow Melky Cabrera should consider himself lucky to only get 50 games under the new CBA. He should get an entire year or more with the stunt he tried to pull. Apparently his positive test came in July and they appealed it to the league. During the appeals process, his camp created a fake website to try and get his suspension thrown out. If a player unknowingly takes a banned substance, their suspension can be reduced or eliminated. So Cabrera claimed his positive test came as a result of taking a substance he didn't know contained the testosterone. Then his camp created a fake website to "sell" the product he claims to have taken to create a fake trail to prove it was an accident. Baseball saw it was fake in about two seconds.
    When you say "camp" do you mean "camp cabrera" or "camp giants" - now i doubt that it'd be anything to do with the Giants but either way that's a guy who should be kicked out of baseball for a long ass time just to post notice, don't fuck around with us or we WILL take a dim view of your crap!
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  12. #632
    Makes me wonder how many players from my favorite team might have, or might be, using. Only one has ever been fingered for it, and he says he didn't use anything until he went to the Yanks (Chuck Knoblauch). Still, kind of scary to think about.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    This is frankly, really god damn fucking stupid.
    Potato.

  13. #633
    Moderator Pendulous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by belfpala View Post
    Makes me wonder how many players from my favorite team might have, or might be, using. Only one has ever been fingered for it, and he says he didn't use anything until he went to the Yanks (Chuck Knoblauch). Still, kind of scary to think about.
    Wow, Chuck Knoblauch. That's a name I haven't heard in forever.

    I couldn't really care less anymore. It's become so common that it's probably easier to assume everyone does, and just live with it. We'll just get to Futurama levels, where steroids are mandatory

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  14. #634
    Yeah I think the discussion is shorter if you discuss players you don't have any suspicions of PED use!
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  15. #635
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendulous View Post
    Wow, Chuck Knoblauch. That's a name I haven't heard in forever.

    I couldn't really care less anymore. It's become so common that it's probably easier to assume everyone does, and just live with it. We'll just get to Futurama levels, where steroids are mandatory
    This is more of less what I've been assuming now. Unless they really find an effective way to find a large percent of those doping, and start handing out serious punishments and bans to those who get caught, it's going to remain an essential part of the game as a whole.

  16. #636
    Fluffy Kitten conscript's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by belfpala View Post
    Makes me wonder how many players from my favorite team might have, or might be, using. Only one has ever been fingered for it, and he says he didn't use anything until he went to the Yanks (Chuck Knoblauch). Still, kind of scary to think about.
    There's only one guy on the Twins that I would suspect, Joe Mauer. His power disappeared, his production is down. Injuries played a part, but he is a shadow of who he was 3-4 years ago.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-19 at 04:38 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreyzor View Post
    This is more of less what I've been assuming now. Unless they really find an effective way to find a large percent of those doping, and start handing out serious punishments and bans to those who get caught, it's going to remain an essential part of the game as a whole.
    Buster Olney was on ESPN yesterday. He met with a GM who wouldn't reveal earlier this week after the Cabrera news broke and the GM laid out team for team exactly who he thought was using and it was a whole lot of guys. If this is the change in the game that results when they manage to cut down on it and force guys to change what they are using, what the hell would happen if they actually got rid of the stuff completely? Would we have a dozen perfect games a year and ERAs drop to 2-3?

  17. #637
    Quote Originally Posted by conscript View Post
    Buster Olney was on ESPN yesterday. He met with a GM who wouldn't reveal earlier this week after the Cabrera news broke and the GM laid out team for team exactly who he thought was using and it was a whole lot of guys. If this is the change in the game that results when they manage to cut down on it and force guys to change what they are using, what the hell would happen if they actually got rid of the stuff completely? Would we have a dozen perfect games a year and ERAs drop to 2-3?
    I don't really think it would change the amount of perfect games a year significantly, I mean all it takes to ruin a perfect game is a single, randomly well placed hit. I don't think that has to do with doping. ERA's on the other hand could definitely drop. I'm not a baseball expert by any means though, so take that as you will.

  18. #638
    Quote Originally Posted by conscript View Post
    There's only one guy on the Twins that I would suspect, Joe Mauer. His power disappeared, his production is down. Injuries played a part, but he is a shadow of who he was 3-4 years ago.
    Meh, he only hit homeruns that one season, and almost all of those were opposite field fly balls that landed in the first row. He still hits those, but at the new stadium they get caught on the warning track instead. His .313/.414 avg/obp this season is still pretty darn good.

    But, of course, I wouldn't be surprised if at least that one season had some "help" (the mysterious one month absence at the beginning...)
    Last edited by belfpala; 2012-08-19 at 09:11 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    This is frankly, really god damn fucking stupid.
    Potato.

  19. #639
    Moderator Skarsguard's Avatar
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    Can't believe my team (A's) are still winning I figured they would have teetered off by now I know the season still isn't over yet but its amazing looking at the A's payroll vs the Angels and Rangers payroll and see how well they are doing in that division. The A's stats are not that great as a team either 25th in runs, 30 in bat Avg, 27th in OBP and 23rd in Slugging..... pretty terrible.

  20. #640
    Carl Crawford to undergo Tommy John on Thursday, predictably the Red Sox fans are slating Theo Epstein, Bobby Valentine & Crawford for the fact the guy has went down injured and the Red Sox season is basically done rather than looking at the fact hey, your starting pitching sucks, your team has been the walking wounded & even if they weren't injured, those guys would still not play together as a cohesive unit! The Sox also fired their pitching coach today, I guess enough was enough on that front, but ultimately the coach is one thing, he's not the guy out there throwing cookies to major league hitters, no that would be Josh Beckett & Jon Lester going 12-21 combined over 46 starts. I think the fans in beantown need to wake up and realise that they can blame Bobby Valentine for so much, but you can't let your team off with flat out choking in the way they have been - a lot of guys in that clubhouse haven't performed since August last year, maybe it's not so much the coaching staff as the players which need to go!

    Yahoo UK reported on the Melky story today - I offended the Champagne Socialists by saying that his $6m salary wasn't really much when you considered it was a 162 game season (yet some of those slating said comment will think Robin Van Persie is worth his £200k a week), among the usual comments surrounding "oh isn't that just rounders on steroids?" ofcourse. One guy though simply questioned if he thought he'd get away with something so damned stupid before pointing out, in athletics/swimming if you get caught doping, you're given a 2 year ban, yet in baseball it's a 50 game suspension - hate to say it, but that guy had a point, if you juice up & are caught, lifetime ban, end of!

    And as if one idiot with funky shit going on isn't bad enough, Roger Clemmens is making a comeback at 50 years of age, look out folks, maybe that's the answer to the Red Sox woes, bring back Clemmens next season!
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