2012 MLB Winter Meetings and Offseason

[draynay]

parity in other leagues begins with the draft, but player evaluation in baseball is so sketchy, and the draft is so enormous that other leagues can't really be looked at as a model

[kidsafe]

parity in other leagues begins with the draft, but player evaluation in baseball is so sketchy, and the draft is so enormous that other leagues can't really be looked at as a model

I don't think player evaluation in baseball is sketchy at all...it's just an enormous player pool and development takes longer. Besides college, players are drafted straight out of high school or scouted from foreign countries. The NFL teams don't have that luxury, they have to bet on a small number of college players every year. If you don't get the 10 or so guys everyone is after in the first round, then it's really anybody's guess. You end up drafting based on need in the NFL long before you do so in the MLB.

How often does the #1 overall draft pick work out for NFL teams? Look at Jamarcus Russell, David Carr, Alex Smith, Tim Couch, Sam Bradford, etc.

In a much larger draft class, the MLB has produced Harper, Strasburg, Mauer, Price, Upton, Hamilton, Adrian Gonzalez, etc. in recent years.

And I mean, come on...The Jaguars drafted a PUNTER in the third round this year, not even a kicker. What a colossal waste of a draft pick, based on need or not.

[belfpala]

I don't think player evaluation in baseball is sketchy at all...it's just an enormous player pool and development takes longer. Besides college, players are drafted straight out of high school or scouted from foreign countries.

I think baseball is the most difficult sport (of major sports) to evaluate talent. In the NFL, you can give a big strong fast 22 year old some pads and get him on the field. In baseball, only the very best players will be up by that age.

Edit: I have nothing against football. Just saying that raw athleticism translates more quickly.

[koodledrum]

I was gonna say with respects, for some positions in football you just pick the guy who can either bench 4 SUV's or is eating a dozen cheeseburgers at the very time you're looking at him, he doesn't have to do much, just move towards the same guy on the other team at the line of scrimmage and if he manages to get past him, move towards the quarterback if he's still got the ball. (I should at this point remind any of those crazy "AMAGAD NFL IS THE KING OF SPORTZ!" people I am actually Scottish and thus your ideology of football is alien to me - the closest we have is rugby whereby we don't wear as much padding)

Baseball's a much more technical sport so drafting is a much bigger risk, you have to be a two way player (unless you happen to be Billy Butler or David Ortiz), you have to be at the very least average on one side of the game and if you're not you better make damn sure you're way above average on the other side - which is easier said than done. Football's all about power & tactics - if you suck at tactics it's all good because you're still a big motherfucker who can put guys on their ass, in baseball it's co-ordination & ability to react, if you don't have one of those, you're not a ball player, period!

[conscript]

Youk has agreed to terms with the Yankees.

[koodledrum]

Yeah saw that earlier, about time we sorted that out! (although I still want to punt Arod in the sack for taking an age to go under the knife - if it was so bad he was so monumentally shit over the second half of last year he should have gotten it seen to long before now. More galling is that he's not due under the knife until January) Youk will however need a change in number as I doubt the Yankees will give him 20 and methinks they might need to have him at one end of the locker room & Joba Chamberlain at the other!

[draynay]

Edit: I have nothing against football. Just saying that raw athleticism translates more quickly.

I agree, and by the nature of the sport its a lot easier to scheme around a young player's shortcomings in football than baseball

young RB isn't great in pass protection? bring somebody else in for 3rd downs

rookie hitter has trouble with breaking balls? ummm errr I hope nobody catches on!

or if he has trouble against lefties, as soon as a lefty comes in, he's pinch hit for and not coming back
baseball substitution rules don't let you coddle the newbies without getting hamstrung by roster limitations

there's a myriad of reasons why it takes so much longer to get a major league level player in baseball, and a myriad of things that can go wrong so that they never make it

for every Rick Ankiel that completely reversed his career and made it back to the show, there are thousands who didn't, I remember there was a Yankee pitching phenom that got in a fight and injured his shoulder and never recovered his velocity or control, and when a prospect has a flaw in his game its impossible to mask it

I remember when Matt Kemp first got called up, he hit 7 homers in two weeks and was batting around .400, then everybody started throwing him offspeed down and away and he dropped to .250 and got sent back down

[Skarsguard]

Youk has agreed to terms with the Yankees.

Man the world just might end soon...

[koodledrum]

So much hating from the Red Sox fans at the Youk deal, almost as much hating from the Yankee fans!

[Skarsguard]

I'm not a Yanks fan or Sox fan anyways I don't see usually see people from the Yanks caring to much what happens outside of the Yankee organization. Sox and Sox fan's are always worrying about what goes on with the Yanks I mean that is just my perception looking from the outside of both teams.

Hamilton to the Angels 5 years for 125 mil. They have a sick lineup but they will still lose out to my A's :P anyways I would have not picked up Hamilton 1. he is to old for a 5 year contract 2. He has an off the field problem and I would worry if he would be able to stay sober that long 3. He seems like he is declining already.

[koodledrum]

Hamilton to the Angels, thank god for that, I'd rather have Youk than have Hamilton within a million miles of being on the Yankees roster that would have been dire!

Good ol Ramiro Pena off to the Braves as a free agent, kid couldn't hit but had a decent glove he'll find a bench spot somewhere.

[Elbren]

Hamilton to the Angels, thank god for that, I'd rather have Youk than have Hamilton within a million miles of being on the Yankees roster that would have been dire!

Good ol Ramiro Pena off to the Braves as a free agent, kid couldn't hit but had a decent glove he'll find a bench spot somewhere.

5 years, $25 Mil. per.

Love his bat, but that's too rich for my blood. I like the fact that Texas stood pat and didn't overpay for him, but that really has to sting having him stay in the division.

[koodledrum]

I wouldn't give him any more than 3 years & any contract would have to be heavily weighted in my favour to sign him - and definitely not for $25m a year!

[Amsden]

The Angels.... WTF man. Of all the teams you choose them??? I mean sure they are notorious for overpaying players but come on... Fucking CJ Wilson 2.0. I knew we wouldn't get him when I heard he was determined for 5 years and I knew Texas wasn't going any higher than 4, I figured at the worst he would go to Seattle, Boston, Philly, New York, or the Dodgers. I didn't even think the Angels were in the running.

[Elbren]

The Angels.... WTF man. Of all the teams you choose them??? I mean sure they are notorious for overpaying players but come on... Fucking CJ Wilson 2.0. I knew we wouldn't get him when I heard he was determined for 5 years and I knew Texas wasn't going any higher than 4, I figured at the worst he would go to Seattle, Boston, Philly, New York, or the Dodgers. I didn't even think the Angels were in the running.

Pretty sure the whole point of dumping Santana and Haren was to free up cash for a big-money extension for Greinke. Once he walked, they were basically left with a big ole' pile of money in their laps. Combine that with the fact that their neighbor's, the Dodger's, are spending money like crazy and that the Angels themselves are known to overspend on FA's ... while I wasn't expecting him to land in LA, it's not really that big of a shock to me.

Not exactly sure how Hamilton is supposed to help a rotation that's now lost 3 of it's 5 starters, but hey ... at least that offense will be fun to watch.

[conscript]

Super pumped the Tigers managed to hold onto Sanchez and for only $16 million per year for five years. Considering that is one year less than Greinke's deal and $8.5 million less annually, that is phenomenal.
2012:
Zach Greinke: 212.1 IP, 15-5, 3.48 ERA, 114 ERA+, 1.196 WHIP, 200K, 54 BB, 8.5 K/9, 2.3 BB/9, 3.7 K/BB
Anibal Sanchez: 195.2 IP, 9-13, 3.86 ERA, 105 ERA+, 1.267 WHIP, 167K, 48 BB, 7.7 K/9, 2.2 BB/9, 3.48 K/BB

So Greinke is better pretty much across the board last year, but the numbers aren't so incredibly out of whack. The Tigers basically just paid 2/3rds the price for a pitcher who is fairly comparable to Greinke.

[koodledrum]

Thing with Greinke's numbers is that you have to consider the recent state of his career, 3 teams in 2 years isn't going to help a pitcher as he has to switch between 3 different pitching coaches - now a fourth in 3 years. Had he remained with one team over that span he'd have been even better I feel which I guess is what the Dodgers might have thought as well. Not taking away from the fact that looks to be an excellent deal for the Tigers though!

Ichiro apparently close to a 2 year $13m deal with the Yankees, seeing a lot of moaning about this too (mostly as it means our projected outfield is all lefty & not much pop outside Granderson) but I like the deal. Ichiro's a legit professional with a lot of knowledge on how to do things properly which could help particularly with the younger guys in spring training by instilling a little of that ethic into them & helping them become better players over the course of that contract. He's not gonna become Babe Ruth overnight, but I think he could have potential to have an up season compared to the last 2 years which puts him in with a shot at 3000 hits.

[Elbren]

Toronto looks like they're currently in the lead to land R.A. Dickey, but the Angels and O's are also still talking to the Met's. Also sounds like Texas is out of it.

[Rennadrel]

The Jays won't trade for him unless he signs an extension though, not worth giving up something good like Arencibia for him.

[Amsden]

Toronto looks like they're currently in the lead to land R.A. Dickey, but the Angels and O's are also still talking to the Met's. Also sounds like Texas is out of it.

Yeah Texas isn't getting anything done this off season. This news doesn't surprise me. Hard to get trades done when everyone wants Profar, or Olt and Texas has no intention of trading them.