Page 62 of 65 FirstFirst ...
12
52
60
61
62
63
64
... LastLast
  1. #1221
    I'm just getting fed up hearing about someone who basically shut down in September, isn't due to step onto a field until after the All-Star break at the earliest & has done absolutely nothing of note for god knows how long all because some paperwork has turned up - when the report's out it's worth talking about, until then it's just nothing but an unashamed bashing. Lets be fair, slating Arod is one of the US' favourite pastimes, he's the most hated character in baseball & does nothing to help himself, but you have to wait for the TRUTH to come out before you start writing a career obituary - and if the truth comes out that he IS involved well, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who'll support him.
    Koodledrum - Balnazzar EU - 85 Priest - Retired.

  2. #1222
    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    you mean when he was an 18 and 19 year old?

    first, he was good enough to be in the majors as a teenager, second, he's a teenager, so looking at an improvement from a couple cups of coffee as a teenager doesn't really shout PEDs to me

    I'm not saying he's not a user, but that is a pretty ridiculous and flimsy argument when you're looking at natural development and improvement by a teenage ball player, I think everybody is improving at that age, it doesn't make any sense at all to point to it as an indicator of anything suspicious

    for that we can look at the 10-15 homer bump at age 25-26

    but craziness like that skippy, is what the sport doesn't need, because then you scrutinize everyone, some guy wasn't even good enough to make it to the majors at age 21, but then at 22 he was in the show! MUST BE PEDs!
    Unfortunately, everyone who played the game in the last 20 some odd years needs to be scrutinized with so many people being caught. I just don't see how you can have 104 guys out of 1200 players test positive and not scrutinize who those players are. Sure there will be people who are innocent who are unfairly linked but as unfair as it is unfortunately there is no way around it unless MLB releases the names. All we are left to go by is stats and body images. Regardless, in Arod's case as Conscript said he's admitted to it on 60 minutes saying he used them from 2001 to 2003 which I had totally forgotten about. I still have a hard time though imaging having 21 RBI's in 65 games over 2 seasons to 123 in 146 games in his 3rd season. It's possible but not very likely.

    Luckily, we are near the end of the drug era. Most of them are now retired and we now have a somewhat good testing now in place so most druggies should be caught.

  3. #1223
    I don't find that "jump" in RBI's to be all that suspicious, he got 21 RBI in 65 games over 2 seasons over the course of less than 200 at bats, next year over 146 games & 600 at bats he puts in 123 seeing big league pitching pretty much every day - that's not impossible nor is it suspicious. Simple logic would tell you that in his first season he was called up in mid season, no doubt as an injury replacement, second season he came up, ripped in his first month & rookie luck wore off there after, third time round he was up for good & progressively increased performance from April to August before slowing down in September of 96. I'm not an Arod defender by any stretch, but when you look at his numbers with a bit of perspective & logic it should be clear to you that there's a massive difference between a teenager coming up & facing big league pitching for the first time & a 21 year old who's seen it before & is a more rounded player.

    I'd like to think that we're at the "end of the drug era" - but I'm afraid as a realist I can't see it being the case, we've had testing in MLB for 8 years now but guys are STILL getting busted and that was before testing for HGH was introduced, so if you think it's gonna end any time soon you're probably in for disappointment.
    Koodledrum - Balnazzar EU - 85 Priest - Retired.

  4. #1224
    The Lightbringer draynay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    California
    Posts
    3,307
    fine, scrutinize, but when you get to the point where you don't expect someone to improve beyond their teenage years without the aid of PEDs then you are insane

    Quote Originally Posted by Skippy88 View Post
    I still have a hard time though imaging having 21 RBI's in 65 games over 2 seasons to 123 in 146 games in his 3rd season. It's possible but not very likely.
    again, this is your weird hang up, this kind of improvement is normal, it happens to EVERY SINGLE PLAYER EVER except maybe Mel Ott
    it just happened moreso to Rodriguez because he had a hell of a lot of talent, it isn't like PEDs make them better players, it bumps their power numbers most noticeably, and the power number bumps you see with Rodriguez occur 2001-2002 and beyond, you know, the time when he admitted to using PEDs, when you're going from 18-20 it is NORMAL to improve

    NORMAL NORMAL NORMAL, don't get so worked up because he got better than he was when he was 19 fricken years old, you're taking this way too far

    Luckily, we are near the end of the drug era. Most of them are now retired and we now have a somewhat good testing now in place so most druggies should be caught.
    but then this is wishful thinking, guys like Braun can still get away with it and win MVPs, its not going away

  5. #1225
    Moderator Skarsguard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Ravenloft usually
    Posts
    2,514
    I dout Bron took anything last year he wouldn't have fated it but he still had MVP numbers last year

  6. #1226
    Braun was let off on a technicality though, no offense, but that's still a failed test in reality - his HR count jumped this year, granted no positive results, but the truth is in 2011 he juiced, no two ways you can look at that, he got off because the courier fucked up. The jump in figures doesn't beyond reasonable doubt prove he juiced in 2012, but ultimately he's going to be Alex Rodriguez mk. 2 in the fact for as long as he is playing there will be significant doubt, that's just the fate of Ryan Braun from here on out, everyone knows he tested positive, everyone knows he got off because of a technicality, doesn't change bare facts does it. I'd love to believe that the game is clean now, but I'm afraid that even someone as trusting as me can't sit here and say there's no PED usage in baseball today, there is, MLB just needs to figure out how to test for them & sort out a justice system which truly acts as a deterrent.
    Koodledrum - Balnazzar EU - 85 Priest - Retired.

  7. #1227
    Brewmaster
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Hillsborough, CA
    Posts
    1,489
    He's saying he doesn't think Braun took anything last season, not his MVP season...and still had MVP-esque numbers. While I think it would be utterly stupid to keep using PEDs after being caught like him, it's also not surprising that he maintained decent numbers.

    1) There's still a possibility that he was using banned substances in 2012. Some of them are simply undetectable.
    2) PEDs enable you to train harder, recover faster. Increased body muscle doesn't simply vanish once you stop using. It pretty much takes as long for muscles to atrophy as it does to build them up in the first place. You will taper some, but not necessarily in dramatic fashion if you maintain the same or slightly reduced training regimen.
    "Wrong. Deterrence deflects 100% of Iron Prison (Not tomb) dmg." -Jaydenkor, 2014


  8. #1228
    Fluffy Kitten conscript's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Jonesville, Michigan
    Posts
    10,443
    Hey guess whose name shows up in the records for that company the MLB is investigating. Ryan Braun...

  9. #1229
    RA Dickey will be the opening day starter for the Jays

  10. #1230
    Moderator Skarsguard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Ravenloft usually
    Posts
    2,514
    Quote Originally Posted by conscript View Post
    Hey guess whose name shows up in the records for that company the MLB is investigating. Ryan Braun...
    Saw that but by his name it didn't have anything listed like it did for the other guys.

  11. #1231
    Quote Originally Posted by conscript View Post
    Hey guess whose name shows up in the records for that company the MLB is investigating. Ryan Braun...
    Not surprised. Anyone who vehemently denies steroid use probably used steroids. Think about it: if you didn't use steroids and you had a failed test, would you really have that much of a reaction at first? You'd talk to your people, maybe make a statement if the fans/ESPN asked you to, but you wouldn't really have a reason to fight at first because you did nothing wrong. When Braun failed his test, he was adamant right from the start. He took the offensive, blaming everyone else and saying he would "fight" for his suspension to be lifted. In my view he basically bullied the MLB into lifting his suspension. Someone who sincerely didn't use steroids wouldn't need to be a bully.

    I feel like performance enhancing drugs are eventually going to have to be legalized and allowed in these leagues. Everyone who's good is cheating. Legalizing them for all players would at least level the playing field.

  12. #1232
    Another name linked is potentially Yankees starting catcher Francisco Cervelli who has admitted consulting the clinic in 2011 to aid his recovery from a foot injury using legal supplements. Ofcourse there's a major difference between a second string catcher & his big name team mate on the Yankees or big name colleague outfielder who's already tainted by an accusation recently! Ultimately this isn't going away, there's no way MLB are ever going to "legalise" PEDs & until players stop taking the crap they are taking they're going to need to keep testing & investigating things like this until players realise they WILL get caught.
    Koodledrum - Balnazzar EU - 85 Priest - Retired.

  13. #1233
    Quote Originally Posted by koodledrum
    Ultimately this isn't going away, there's no way MLB are ever going to "legalise" PEDs & until players stop taking the crap they are taking they're going to need to keep testing & investigating things like this until players realise they WILL get caught.
    Cause that works so well with all other illegal drugs.

  14. #1234
    Brewmaster
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Hillsborough, CA
    Posts
    1,489
    Allowing the use of PEDs in the major leagues adds incentive for players to start using drugs at earlier stages in their progression...college, high school, etc. Do we really want to go down this road?
    "Wrong. Deterrence deflects 100% of Iron Prison (Not tomb) dmg." -Jaydenkor, 2014


  15. #1235
    There's already incentive to use PEDs when you're in high school. Legalizing them doesn't create the incentive, it just makes them more accessible.

  16. #1236
    The Lightbringer draynay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    California
    Posts
    3,307
    legalize PEDs you say?


    Now I'd like to point out that this thread is displaying a distinct tendency to become silly

  17. #1237
    Why is it silly? You already can't trust any baseball record from the last 15 years. The MLB (and every other league) is obviously a failure at coming down on its own athletes. Might as well legalize them and level the playing field.

    If a guy like Armstrong can pass 500+ tests while still cheating, the system is obviously broken.

  18. #1238
    The Lightbringer draynay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    California
    Posts
    3,307
    it was ignoring the problem that got MLB into this mess, pretending it isn't a problem is better how?

    especially when we look at how people are scared of football because of the long-term health problems, how does it help MLB to embrace a lifestyle that will result in long-term health problems for its athletes?

    ugh why am I even talking to you, why am I making an effort when you have no clue?

  19. #1239
    It's a legitimate question. Conversation is how you solve issues, saying you don't want to talk about it doesn't solve anything.

    I'm not saying anyone should pretend PEDs aren't a problem. I'm saying that they're only a problem because we make them a problem. We say "all these new, helpful drugs are not allowed" and then athletes go around our backs and find new ways to use those drugs anyway and not get caught. Every year new athletes get caught and we castrate them in the media, but one can only imagine that there are dozens if not hundreds of other athletes who use these drugs and don't get caught. If every athlete could use PEDs without getting in trouble, the playing field would be much more even because we could basically assume every athlete is using them.

    And saying there are long-term health consequences is debatable. Most of the basic steroids (testosterone, HGH, etc) are safe if used properly. Legalizing these drugs would have the side-effect of making it so an athlete could come clean to a doctor about all the drugs he's using, meaning that doctor could make sure the athlete is not taking in too much of anything and that there are no dangerous reactions. Ironically, legalizing PEDs makes them safer.

  20. #1240
    Moderator Skarsguard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Ravenloft usually
    Posts
    2,514
    Carpenter is out for the season and probably done career wise great run with the Cards for sure he seemed to come up clutch for them when they needed it.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •