Too soon, BioWare.

[seraphius]

it is substantially worse.

Ha.. not.. nothing can be worse than wow endgame, or easyer.. hence why so many has left the game, no sense of achivement anymore. not saying swotor is better... just... NOT!

my grandmas sunday dinners has more substance and engame than wow..

[Krolikn]

I leveled a Rep and an Imp character to 50. It felt like a grind alot trying to get through all the boring content just to reach the next class quest. The game is done for me. I gave the endgame a chance but theres nothing to it.

Sure there are other class stories but that would mean doing everything else along the way again. No thanks. Theres one more "unique" playthrough involving PvP/class quests but no thanks PvP bores me when I have to constantly do it.

It was fun at the start but the game got really dull after the starting areas. Badly designed areas and dull, boring quests litter most of the planets. Most of the flashpoints are boring with barely any story options. The current operations are rather dull too. "Ooooh a boss fight....thanks? Could have made it epic at least..."

Quoting initial sales doesn't impress me. The Star Wars name would have sold this no matter what. The fanbase is huge. Best of luck to the game but I think the sub numbers are going to drastically fall over the coming months.

[Ruak]

2 of my IRL friends bought it and have ever since been convincing me to get it too - how awesome it is, we will play together, etc. Was almost on the edge of buying it (not because of the appeal of the game, although I had a good time in the beta, I admit, but because of being able to play with them), but then a couple of weeks ago I visited one of them. All day long he's doing battlegrounds with his Sith Assassin. Now, ok, I guess he finds it fun, but...what "the bes game ever" has to offer me doesn't seem too appealing. If I wanted to do that, I could just roll a rogue in WoW and do the same there. With the only change that SWTOR has 3 battlegrounds, WoW has 8 atm... Just no lightsabers and worse graphics. Sure, I am not a fanatized SW fan, but I thought the game's aimed to more than that. Just endgame content seems really bland. Same as WoW, just less (apart from Dragonsoul, but we all know Dragonsoul is the worst raid up to date :P. Cata release featured 13 bosses, though).

And a big /lol to people who say that WoW also started with bugs, and that SWTOR is new while WoW has 3 expansions behind his back. Nobody cares. Swtor NOW competes with WoW NOW. Or what, while Swtor introduces content, WoW will be sleeping? Swtor will get a few new battlegrounds introduced in the next months maybe, but so will WoW do. And it'll be a similar picture - 6 SWTOR bgs vs. 11 WoW bgs. Unless Bioware adds content 5 times faster than Blizz so that they catch up in 4-5 months. But I have my doubt.

[soulcrusher]

its new, its fun, ill keep playing. im bored with playing a game ive played since launch and was ready for a change. ill buy gw2 when it comes out and ill try that too. swtor is only 2 months old, its got plenty in it for me to still do. if it runs out of steam ill play something else. simples.

[Alyssa]

Eh?

I’m still enjoying the game immensely, but it has a number of problems that I’d rather see time spent fixing. I have no intention to quit, whatsoever.

Wasn't a dig at you, more the stream of replies after.

[Alka]

It became the same situation as most endgame mmo's. You have 1-2 DPS quit, then you spend 20-40min finding PUG DPS which fails, then next week you have a healer not show up, etc etc...

The Endgame in SWTOR didn't feel Epic enough, you run regular OPs to get the same gear you get in HMs.. eh... you run HM OPs to get the same pieces over and over again, eh. There wasn't much gear to get other than Tier pieces which was kind of a downer.

[vizzle]

It became the same situation as most endgame mmo's. You have 1-2 DPS quit, then you spend 20-40min finding PUG DPS which fails, then next week you have a healer not show up, etc etc...

One of the many reasons why raiding needs to be abolished. Old and tired system.

[Tyrven]

They didn't plan for people to get to 50 two months after the game was released? What? We didn't get there quickly - you people who aren't 50 yet are just absurdly slow.

or just playing way less. They should have and I am sure did expect ppl to lvl quickly, just in beta testing ppl that I saw were getting to the end of act 1. They were resetting and wiping toons all the time then. If they didn't plan for ppl going bat shit and playing close to nonstop out the gates then they truely dont get MMO markets or SW fans.

[Darsithis]

Do you honestly think the two OPs that TOR has now is worse than Dragon Soul? I disagree, but the make or break is going to be the next content patch and the OP there

I do. Say what you will about DS, at least it is polished and nearly bug free. Definitely worse.

I see these issues getting corrected eventually, and I'm willing ride the wave and wait till they are. I love the storylines and the classes.

[vizzle]

or just playing way less. They should have and I am sure did expect ppl to lvl quickly, just in beta testing ppl that I saw were getting to the end of act 1. They were resetting and wiping toons all the time then. If they didn't plan for ppl going bat shit and playing close to nonstop out the gates then they truely dont get MMO markets or SW fans.

The point is that it is stupid for someone to say that we're all "fast levelers" just because we're 50, at the 2 month mark of the game's release.

[Chromu]

The PR just forgot one detail: any game launched with the Star Wars name sells.

But i got curious, why people still believe the fixes will arrive soon and the support will improve when the game carriers the EA mark? From what i remember, didn't Warhammer went down because of this same ilusion ("they will fix it sometime in the future")?

[Thylacine]

One of the many reasons why raiding needs to be abolished. Old and tired system.

While slightly off topic, and a whole other thread, I think it’s telling that virtually nobody is publically complaining that Guild Wars 2 is ditching raids.

I think the MMO community is, indeed, outgrowing the need for 24/15 other people before you can start having fun.

[Verraxe]

--snip--
And a big /lol to people who say that WoW also started with bugs, and that SWTOR is new while WoW has 3 expansions behind his back. Nobody cares. Swtor NOW competes with WoW NOW. Or what, while Swtor introduces content, WoW will be sleeping? Swtor will get a few new battlegrounds introduced in the next months maybe, but so will WoW do. And it'll be a similar picture - 6 SWTOR bgs vs. 11 WoW bgs. Unless Bioware adds content 5 times faster than Blizz so that they catch up in 4-5 months. But I have my doubt.

Sorry, this argument is pointless. There's no way any new MMO being released by any developer that will be able to compete with WoW as it stands now in terms of sheer crap to do. It's just not possible. It doesn't matter how long the new game is in development for, as long as Blizzard continues to release content regularly, other developers can't keep up.

This is why people compare the launches. You can't take the current state and make a competitor. Blizzard has more than 7 years of the public finding all the faults while playing the game, fixing the bugs found / polishing the game, AND developing new content simultaneously. A newly released game won't have this.

Bioware is doing pretty well for a newly released game.

[Serpenth]

I want to make this point. It's not intended to say WoW is better or anything. I've quit both games recently because I'm fed up with the mmo genre - anyways - tldr at bottom.

It's 2012. WoW has set the standard for any MMO to be released after 2004. Hate or love WoW it's true. What Bioware is missing is simple.

1.) Looking for Dungeon: "BUT IT RUINS COMMUNITIES" - Really? Communities in games have been ruined since gaming went "mainstream". They're massive now and new titles draw a lot of attention from all sides. As many probably have seen, I noticed this as early as the beta, the TOR community was split just like WoW is. Half the people in general said "no no this game is for casuals hardcores go back to wow" then the other half said " no no this game is for hard core raiders QQ go back to WoW pandas". Not implementing an LFD system because it ruins communities is a poor reason not to do it or want it.

2.) Addons: People want customization. It can be looks of gear, looks of UI, or Talents. Everyone wants their character and gameplay experience to be unique and to their liking. Addon support should be standard in MMO release that plans to compete with WoW. Sure you can add it later - but it won't help half the subs you've lost. (Not implying swtor lost half their subs - dont freak out)

3.) Combat logs: biggest mind boggler imo. People want to evaluate their performance. There is seriously no way for people to become better at a game if you're not allowing them to.

4.) Trying to be vanilla: This is a term I use to describe recent mmo's. They try to be vanilla - like vanilla wow. I can't really describe it, it's just a feeling I get when I look at these games. Especially when the community responds: but vanilla wow didnt have blah blah blah balance in vanilla blah blah. Shut up. Any MMO that comes out has to compete with WoW: Cataclysm and all of it's features. I know Cata was weak but hear me out. Many people I know that played ToR said "well i'm not gonna join a guild - there's no perks" WoW keeps adding and adding and adding. MoP will have timed runs. When wow killer 2013 comes out people will say "Well where's my reward for finishing a dungeon in 10 minutes?" Do you see what I'm saying? WoW keeps adding and adding and adding. If you want to compete you can't try to improve one or two "vanilla features" and say "well our game is better - our battlegrounds are more innovative!". You need to launch with all the features that WoW has + more.

TL;DR - Agree with OP - TOR would have been much better if they waited a little longer and took time to put in some important features they are missing. Pretty much WoW has a mammoth amount of content and features like it or not - it has more to offer right now and companies need to realize that before saying "Lol our game will crush wow you just watch" I wish I bookmarked that statement from EA back in July. "SWTOR will more than compete with WoW". Nice effort - should have waited longer though.

[Bonkbonk100]

World of Wacraft was horrible at launch even a few months in, raids that did not work etc..

Secondly..
it's Biowares FIRST MMO EVER you silly sod! of course it's going to be shite(in the start)

People complaining about End game content..
Go PLAY ANOTHER CLASS, change the story of your main class or something, raid some Republic area or something camp some guy trying to level his level 40 on hoth(or something like that >.<)
Mess around, go to planets finnish them up!

Fourthly.
They Did not plan for people to get to level 50 and such so damn quickly and if you just dinged 50 and you get bored..go play CoD or something >.<
Cause then you certaintly aint one of thoes players who should be playing a MMORPG.
Massively multiplayer online role-playing game, that's an MMORPG. IT's A ROLE-PLAYING GAME, go to an RP server try to immerse your self's with your Character.

Don't compare SWTOR launch and content with WoW launch and content. There's a whole 7 (?) years difference between.

WoW was released in a time where MMO's weren't the big thing and the market was rather akward in that area.

Rift had more endgame content + More stable launch then SWTOR and no, I don't play either anymore.

[Miah]

It has the same contend on wow besides for arena. The problem isnt that the contend isnt there its that its not as readily available. I wasnt enjoying endgame much till i joind a good guild. With ppl willing to do stuff around u can do HM's, operations, world bosses and such on a wim and have fun.

Ding, Ding, Ding....we have a winner.

I dont get the constant complaints from people trying to play this on a 5 year old laptop either, if you dont like it go to the game you do like and talk about Pandas or something, This game is such a refreshing break from all the boredom the last couple years since Aion killed Warhammer

Rated PvP is supposed to come soon, I think they were trying to keep people from power gearing in PvP without investing the proper amount of PvP, hence the whole RNG system which can be frustrating , and rewarding when you finally get full Battlemaster

[ZeroEdgeir]

I started playing, was enjoying it immensely. Got my first 50, was looking forward to doing some Heroic Flashpoints and moving forward.

Then the issue came in that myself, and my guild, just weren't playing so much. The amount of content at the endgame is literally a couple normal Flashpoints, the Heroic Flashpoints, and then Operations. Oh, and PvP if that is your thing (it is NOT mine, and thankfully, is not a good way to get tank gear, cause all that Expertise and Accuracy does nothing to help you stay alive in PvE).

And so, I find myself, and quite a few of my friends, all back on WoW. Why? There is just more to do, even at level cap. Even in vanilla, there was more to do (though not as much compared to today's standards).

[Saxtorph]

I watched the video. Looked like a lot of valid statistics filled in with a solid helping of hyperbole. A typical PR piece, imo. But then, whatever can provide the impetus for yet another tired complaint thread is what you really needed, right?

---------- Post added 2012-02-23 at 10:50 AM ----------

While slightly off topic, and a whole other thread, I think it’s telling that virtually nobody is publically complaining that Guild Wars 2 is ditching raids.

I think the MMO community is, indeed, outgrowing the need for 24/15 other people before you can start having fun.

I think the change is propelled by the fact that the dominant demographic has become children who don't want to be forced to cooperate with anyone to get bigger rewards.

[HBpapa]

I don’t know, maybe I’m being oversensitive.

I think the OP summed it up pretty well right here. The ad looks to me like they got the best friends of employees and the most hardened biodrones to make the game out to be a lot better than it really is...but I can't really blame a company for wanting to sell their product; not matter how crappy it may be to some of the people who have used that product. All last month I would see TOR ads on TV every time I turned it on....oh well.

If anything, it should really be an indicator of those news organizations which gave raving reviews of the game as seriously lacking in journalistic integrity and either publishing their notions of the game after only playing a short period of time or not at all*. I seriously doubt very many of those touting "Game of the Year" played the game past the first 15 levels or so (which were, admittedly, awesome).

*The AP copy and paste to NPR and Time Magazine come to mind.

[Miah]

I want to make this point. It's not intended to say WoW is better or anything. I've quit both games recently because I'm fed up with the mmo genre - anyways - tldr at bottom.

It's 2012. WoW has set the standard for any MMO to be released after 2004. Hate or love WoW it's true. What Bioware is missing is simple.

1.) Looking for Dungeon: "BUT IT RUINS COMMUNITIES" - Really? Communities in games have been ruined since gaming went "mainstream". They're massive now and new titles draw a lot of attention from all sides. As many probably have seen, I noticed this as early as the beta, the TOR community was split just like WoW is. Half the people in general said "no no this game is for casuals hardcores go back to wow" then the other half said " no no this game is for hard core raiders QQ go back to WoW pandas". Not implementing an LFD system because it ruins communities is a poor reason not to do it or want it.

2.) Addons: People want customization. It can be looks of gear, looks of UI, or Talents. Everyone wants their character and gameplay experience to be unique and to their liking. Addon support should be standard in MMO release that plans to compete with WoW. Sure you can add it later - but it won't help half the subs you've lost. (Not implying swtor lost half their subs - dont freak out)

3.) Combat logs: biggest mind boggler imo. People want to evaluate their performance. There is seriously no way for people to become better at a game if you're not allowing them to.

4.) Trying to be vanilla: This is a term I use to describe recent mmo's. They try to be vanilla - like vanilla wow. I can't really describe it, it's just a feeling I get when I look at these games. Especially when the community responds: but vanilla wow didnt have blah blah blah balance in vanilla blah blah. Shut up. Any MMO that comes out has to compete with WoW: Cataclysm and all of it's features. I know Cata was weak but hear me out. Many people I know that played ToR said "well i'm not gonna join a guild - there's no perks" WoW keeps adding and adding and adding. MoP will have timed runs. When wow killer 2013 comes out people will say "Well where's my reward for finishing a dungeon in 10 minutes?" Do you see what I'm saying? WoW keeps adding and adding and adding. If you want to compete you can't try to improve one or two "vanilla features" and say "well our game is better - our battlegrounds are more innovative!". You need to launch with all the features that WoW has + more.

TL;DR - Agree with OP - TOR would have been much better if they waited a little longer and took time to put in some important features they are missing. Pretty much WoW has a mammoth amount of content and features like it or not - it has more to offer right now and companies need to realize that before saying "Lol our game will crush wow you just watch" I wish I bookmarked that statement from EA back in July. "SWTOR will more than compete with WoW". Nice effort - should have waited longer though.

Not intended to make WoW sound better huh? Is that why you state it is a dozen times , heres the funniest of all

Pretty much WoW has a mammoth amount of content and features like it or not

Instead of making basless comment please tell us what wow has.heres my list they dont have
1.Companions
2.Datacrons
3. customizable characters unless you consider barber shops customizing
4. Fun leveling with cut scenes
5. Vastly more mature player base without all the horrid general chat
6. Doesn't allow Deadly Boss Mods to raid for you, and while we're on this topic, maybe you and others want Curse.com to play your game for you, some of us dont like updating and rebuilding our entire UI every couple weeks from scratch..........meh
7. Cool social leveling, Companion leveling including emotions like sex, marriage etc.
8. slightly difficult professions where you don't sit at AH and level a profession in 8 hours, you actually have to perform all 3 to be successful
9.Very good graphics, I know WoW finally updated theirs after 6 years but..........My Priest still looks the same as it did in 2005
10.Jedi Dancer gear 0.o
11. PvP that's actually fun, you can talk to the other side and have skirmishes all times of the day without Q'ing
12. Space Missions
13 Fun

I will give you recount........it would be nice to know what kind of DPS I'm doing but when I pull 400K in WZ, I'm guessing I'm doing fine, why allow a recount to ruin raids, raiding used to be fun when you had to figure stuff out