Yor'sahj 10M HC, Why are we wiping?

[Deleted]

Hi there, I am posting on behalf of the guild I am in (Army of Darkness EU-Hellfire).

We are trying to kill Yor'sahj on 10 man heroic but we are having a few issues here and there. We read guides from almost everywhere and always try whatever tips anyone has to offer.

Our raid composition varies but this is basically it: (I listed all our players we've used during the tries)

Tank(s):
Warrior - Protection
Druid - Feral (Can tank/dps)

Healer(s):
Druid - Restorations
Shaman - Restoration
(Optional: Paladin - Holy)

DPS:
Rogue - Combat
Rogue - Assassination/Combat
Paladin - Retribution
Priest - Shadow
Warlock - Demonolgy/Destruction
Hunter - Survival
Hunter - Marksman
DK - Unholy
DK - Frost
Shaman - Enhancement
Shaman - Elemental
Mage - Fire/Arcane

Here are some world of logs:
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/of1pkl8spazpbto8/

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/7c1munizii4kop07/

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/h5yegbhk210x8jj7/

Guild logs:
http://worldoflogs.com/guilds/164738/

Guides used:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDHiI...layer_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3UuK...layer_embedded

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3657444001




Thanks for any help provided!

[Gunz]

1 tank fight
What combos are wiping you? When we started this we killed yellow then black and ignored everything else (we were world #8 on this fight).
Healers need to learn how to manage purple.
Everyone needs to learn how to manage a red + green combo.

[Deleted]

1 tank fight
What combos are wiping you? When we started this we killed yellow then black and ignored everything else (we were world #8 on this fight).
Healers need to learn how to manage purple.
Everyone needs to learn how to manage a red + green combo.

We thought it was a 1 tank fight to start with but it was really intense so we had the feral druid help out in bear form and according to feedback from the healers it really helped.

I'm not so sure of the combos wiping us as there are several that wipe us but most of the time it's red, black, yellow and purple.

Our healers manage purple well, we don't have a red and green combo together as we kill green so we can brown nose him.

[backupoffmeson]

If your Holy Paladin is good they are the best healer for this fight. Holy Paly Resto Shaman is a great team. Beacon of light on the tank is awesome.

Use feral tank if possible for higher DPS.

Fire mages and other good AoE classes are nice for black phases.

If Green + Red, kill green.
else, kill yellow
else, kill black

have entire raid stack under the boss during phases with red and/or black

If you do the above kill order the 2 "hard" ooze sets are black, yellow, red and purple, black red.

For Purp black red you want damage reduction cooldowns on the raid like SLT, barrier, tank 4 pc CDs, etc. Don't use CDs like tranq or divine hymn during purple or raid wipes. Make sure to AoE adds asap to reduce incoming damage.

For yellow, black, red use any raid cooldowns you have that you decided you don't need for the other ooze set, pop heroism/lust/time warp and healers heal their asses off. Drag the second set of black adds to the next ooze you kill (bring the whole raid with you so healers can heal everyone).

Be smart about mana voids. Don't kill the first mana void just use mana restoration CDs like mana tide, hymn of hope, mana pots etc. Then when a 2nd mana void spawns and draws everyones mana kill the first one (make sure healers are close enough for mana).

Your mage is probably really bad (no offense) from looking at logs. He should definitely be fire for the fight and he should be able to drop big combustions on every set of black ooze adds. He should be at or near the top of your raid's damage .

Ignore stuff about stacking shadow resist. All your tank needs is their own cooldowns and the BH trinket.

[berserklover]

it's a 1 tank fight, in no way whatsoever is it 2. I'm a dk tank which makes it easier, but your tanks are either under gear or just sucks. I can't even comprehend why you waste buff on shadow resist. You should look into your healers at this point. Probably the easiest and most boring fight in DS with the Morchok.

[Deleted]

You took damage from deep corruption, healers need to be on the ball with that - it should never detonate.

I would suggest druid tank over the warrior (both work actually, just make sure your warrior delays his Shield Block to ~7th or so voidbolt stack so he gets the passive 20% spelldamage reduction).
Holy paladin + Resto shaman would be best. Druids arent good on this fight (yes tranq is an awesome CD for Y-R-B, but druids also have the weakest single target nuke -- healing touch -- which makes them pretty bad for purple).

Dont bother with the shadowresistance. Mirror of broken images is godlike on this fight, if you dont have dps issues you could have your squishier people equip it too, like mages and whatnot. As it's magical damage primarily you need a tank with alot of health to survive the hits - or get a blood DK and trivialize it

Im not stellar with reading logs, but it seems that you wiped on the second Y-B-R phase. Always count on getting two phases of Yellow-Black-Red for measure. We solved this by using ALL healing cooldowns and defensive cooldowns we could muster (AM - barrier - tank cooldowns and all dps must use their own cooldowns) to survive the first one. On the second one we had any cd up (AM is a decently short cooldown) and beartranq + Heroism. My suggestion would be to save hero for the second one.


For the second Y-B-R, on our first kill, we had people off-healing. Shamans dropping Healing rain - boomkins tranqing etc, anything to stay alive! With 2 healers and 1 tank you should have plenty of dps to spare. One thing that is also very smart is to BoP your mage or hunter as they will always be hit really hard by the black adds and a BoP will solve that pretty easily.


´Edit: I would continue with the same tactic as you are. I dont know why so many people insist on killing black but we've never even touched it and it has been working very well. The adds really dont do that much damage and a welltimed BoP or feign death or paladin bubble will get rid of them from a person. Just make sure to aoe them fast (wth a fire mage, SV hunter --tell your hunter to stay SV -- and priest/shaman your aoe will be good)

[Deleted]

If your Holy Paladin is good they are the best healer for this fight. Holy Paly Resto Shaman is a great team. Beacon of light on the tank is awesome.

Use feral tank if possible for higher DPS.

Fire mages and other good AoE classes are nice for black phases.

If Green + Red, kill green.
else, kill yellow
else, kill black

have entire raid stack under the boss during phases with red and/or black

If you do the above kill order the 2 "hard" ooze sets are black, yellow, red and purple, black red.

For Purp black red you want damage reduction cooldowns on the raid like SLT, barrier, tank 4 pc CDs, etc. Don't use CDs like tranq or divine hymn during purple or raid wipes. Make sure to AoE adds asap to reduce incoming damage.

For yellow, black, red use any raid cooldowns you have that you decided you don't need for the other ooze set, pop heroism/lust/time warp and healers heal their asses off. Drag the second set of black adds to the next ooze you kill (bring the whole raid with you so healers can heal everyone).

Be smart about mana voids. Don't kill the first mana void just use mana restoration CDs like mana tide, hymn of hope, mana pots etc. Then when a 2nd mana void spawns and draws everyones mana kill the first one (make sure healers are close enough for mana).

Your mage is probably really bad (no offense) from looking at logs. He should definitely be fire for the fight and he should be able to drop big combustions on every set of black ooze adds. He should be at or near the top of your raid's damage .

Ignore stuff about stacking shadow resist. All your tank needs is their own cooldowns and the BH trinket.

Many thanks for the feedback, I will quote your post to the guild and we will go from there

it's a 1 tank fight, in no way whatsoever is it 2. I'm a dk tank which makes it easier, but your tanks are either under gear or just sucks. I can't even comprehend why you waste buff on shadow resist. You should look into your healers at this point. Probably the easiest and most boring fight in DS with the Morchok.

Thanks for the feedback I guess.

You took damage from deep corruption, healers need to be on the ball with that - it should never detonate.

I would suggest druid tank over the warrior (both work actually, just make sure your warrior delays his Shield Block to ~7th or so voidbolt stack so he gets the passive 20% spelldamage reduction).
Holy paladin + Resto shaman would be best. Druids arent good on this fight (yes tranq is an awesome CD for Y-R-B, but druids also have the weakest single target nuke -- healing touch -- which makes them pretty bad for purple).

Dont bother with the shadowresistance. Mirror of broken images is godlike on this fight, if you dont have dps issues you could have your squishier people equip it too, like mages and whatnot. As it's magical damage primarily you need a tank with alot of health to survive the hits - or get a blood DK and trivialize it

Im not stellar with reading logs, but it seems that you wiped on the second Y-B-R phase. Always count on getting two phases of Yellow-Black-Red for measure. We solved this by using ALL healing cooldowns and defensive cooldowns we could muster (AM - barrier - tank cooldowns and all dps must use their own cooldowns) to survive the first one. On the second one we had any cd up (AM is a decently short cooldown) and beartranq + Heroism. My suggestion would be to save hero for the second one.


For the second Y-B-R, on our first kill, we had people off-healing. Shamans dropping Healing rain - boomkins tranqing etc, anything to stay alive! With 2 healers and 1 tank you should have plenty of dps to spare. One thing that is also very smart is to BoP your mage or hunter as they will always be hit really hard by the black adds and a BoP will solve that pretty easily.


´Edit: I would continue with the same tactic as you are. I dont know why so many people insist on killing black but we've never even touched it and it has been working very well. The adds really dont do that much damage and a welltimed BoP or feign death or paladin bubble will get rid of them from a person. Just make sure to aoe them fast (wth a fire mage, SV hunter --tell your hunter to stay SV -- and priest/shaman your aoe will be good)

Thanks for the tips, we are raiding again tonight so I shall inform the group of this post so they can read it and we will go from there.

I have a question about one combination:
Black, Yellow, Red, Purple

We kill purple which means we get 2 sets of adds, should those with an add on them move with the group to the next globule so the DPS can AoE them down whilst killing the globule?

[Dupre]

We just did this yesterday. Used one tank, a DK. Death knights are really great for it. Just have blood shield up the whole encounter and use bone shield and and AMS to minimise the damage taken really. Even a quite poorly geared DK can do it, the DK had 383 item level. It's all about the healing really. Have your dps kill the right oozes and have dps high enough to kill it before enrage. We used 2 healers and they did it just fine w/o any problems really. It was actually much easier and cleaner with 2 healers (can't see if you used 2 or 3 healers)

[hyggja]

As many people have said, holy paladins are very strong on this fight. Beacon on the tank and 3hp WoG (WoG doesn't add stacks) can be a lifesaver on purple for tank healing. For the second healer, we did it with an rdruid but he is above par, take the rshaman if you can help it. Your healers just have to learn how to manage purple, which is honestly fairly easy once you have it showing in your raid frames, if they don't, they should.

We thought it was a 1 tank fight to start with but it was really intense so we had the feral druid help out in bear form and according to feedback from the healers it really helped.

It would really help in each fight to take 5tanks and 5healers, but it doesn't work .

For healers, dealing with RYBlack is the test. We pop tranq + AM + cd's on the first, lust on the second. If we get 3 consecutively, CD's are up and tranq + AM + cd's again. If a fourth consecutive (it's possible, and we've gotten it) comes, you're wiping to the RNG gods.

As for DPS, you should be using classes with strong AoE. From what you posted, use the following:

Rogue - Combat
Rogue - Assassination/Combat
Paladin - Retribution
Priest - Shadow
Warlock - Demonolgy/Destruction
Hunter - Survival
Hunter - Marksman
DK - Unholy
DK - Frost
Shaman - Enhancement
Shaman - Elemental
Mage - Fire/Arcane

I looked at your logs, and it seems like a few of your dps aren't actually doing anything on the adds. On your longest attempt (go to wol and put this behind the url (I can't post links)/reports/of1pkl8spazpbto8/details/72/?s=7126&e=7573) you see your ret, mage, and most notably your hunter doing awful aoe dps. Your mage should be fire, and your hunter must be SV. Your ret's DPS is better on other attempts.

It honestly looks like you have a problem with healers on purple, and DPS on blacks. Once your DPS learns to AoE better, and your healers put purple on raid frames and stop blowing up the raid, should have a pretty easy time.

[Deleted]

I have a question about one combination:
Black, Yellow, Red, Purple

We kill purple which means we get 2 sets of adds, should those with an add on them move with the group to the next globule so the DPS can AoE them down whilst killing the globule?

Don't kill purple its a debuff your healers should be familiar with and should have no problems keeping every1 below 5 stacks. When it spawn not a single person can use self healing abbilites so they will mess up with healers. Kill either yellow (if u have dps to kill two waves of adds) if not kill black.

Edited because I was thinking about blue add instead of purple.

[Deleted]

Speaking from my knowledge of this fight ( i play a mage) and the logs you posted your mage needs to up his game a little (this is not meant as trolling). This fight is no place for 15k - 17k dps. I note he swaps between specs during your attempts - A fire mage is prob the best spec and class for this fight.

Its best to save combustion for black phases (i.e. dont just unload it into the boss on cooldown) and spread it from the boss onto the adds who will soon get melted. We run with with 3, 4 or 5 mages and the adds get melted hard which in most cases stops black being an issue - see log below (EDIT - link removed due to me being a new poster - see our logs under SuperHappyAdventureClub25 on Twilights hammer EU (fire mages are top 3 on our kill this week with 58, 63 and 67 k dps

Im happy to help your mage out if he/she wants (as i said this is not meant as trolling in any way shape or form).

[hyggja]

We kill purple which means we get 2 sets of adds, should those with an add on them move with the group to the next globule so the DPS can AoE them down whilst killing the globule?

Yes. If you have a fire mage, before moving to the glob, have your mage get combustion off on the second set of adds.

[Deleted]

About blue add because I'm thinking you have problems with mana management. After first mana void spawn don't kill it, just dps it to roughly 300k+ and save it. Let your healers and every1 else use mana regen cds. Whenever after next void spawns kill previous one and.. BOMM after 3s you are all full of mana again. Repeat till end of the fight and your healers/dps will never have mana issues.

[Aronaz]

Yeah, purple could be a pain for healers. That's why you're going to split the raid between those healers.
Then one healer is taking group 1 and the second healer is taking group 2. If, you're using one more healer, then he will taking care of the healers and himself.
So basicly, the 2 "main" healers will be taking the dpsers and the tank. And the third healer will be taking care of the healers.

As you know, you can't heal one person more than 4 times. Once a players stack hits 5. He/she will explode or even wipe the raid. To make it alot easier is that the healers communicate alot while the purple is up. Just calling out on vent or something like this: The tank has 4 stack, don't heal him!
Also, the stacks resets after 25 seconds so you can start healing again. And remember, no AoE heals. It will kill you.
One nice thing that I use, as resto shaman, is that I'm healing our hunters pet with 'Riptide' & Unleash Elements. As the pet won't be effected by the purple debuff, we can heal it as much as we want. Also, I am only using Greater Healing Wave on this phase. We don't wanna waste a small heal on the people with the debuff. So wait until they reaches around 50% health, then heal them with a huge heal.

Hope this tip will help your progress!

[Deleted]

Many thanks for all your feedback, as I am not the leader I can only inform the group of what you guys have said and offer your services to help where applicable.

Hopefully we can progress further tonight

About blue add because I'm thinking you have problems with mana management. After first mana void spawn don't kill it, just dps it to roughly 300k+ and save it. Let your healers and every1 else use mana regen cds. Whenever after next void spawns kill previous one and.. BOMM after 3s you are all full of mana again. Repeat till end of the fight and your healers/dps will never have mana issues.

Yea that is currently what we do, we get range to dps it to about 15% then next blue phase or intense phase we burst it.

[Kanaxai]

A few pointers that should ease this encounter:

Raid comp: For tanks, use the druid instead of the warrior and one tank this fight. He should be taking alot less damage then the warrior due to savage defence and the Perseverance talent. Make sure he has the tol barad trinket also. As for healers, I suggest you replace the resto druid with the Holy paladin, simply because they're the best for this encounter. For instance, beacon of light heals won't add stacks on purple phases.

Mana: Once you get your first Mana void up, leave it and pop any mana cd's you have. Once the next set of oozes spawn, get one melee to dps the void down to 20%, then go on boss. Then you can pop that mana void as soon as another one spawns making that mechanic a non-issue. I suggest you keep this melee on the boss each time the oozes spawn to ensure you make the enrage time.

Killing oozes: You should be able to leave one dps and tank on boss each time they spawn and still be able to kill one ooze. If your uncertain on which oozes to kill, you can always get your raidleader to download an addon spesifically for that purpose. You should also always only have one Yellow/Red/Black phase. On the Purple/red/yellow/black phase kill the yellow, that way you will never face two Yellow/Red/Black phases in a row, which in all honesty is the biggest wipe threat. Save bloodlust/heroism for the Yellow/Red/Black phase and rotate cooldowns.

Positioning: On every red phase, make sure the entire raid stacks in the middle of the boss hitbox. Dead center. Even standing on the edge of the boss hitbox will increase damage taken by alot. Also make sure your tank pops demo roar/shout to help migate damage taken by adds on black phases. If you have a dk in the group, he can death grip the mana void to the boss when you need to kill it.

[Deleted]

A few pointers that should ease this encounter:

Raid comp: For tanks, use the druid instead of the warrior and one tank this fight. He should be taking alot less damage then the warrior due to savage defence and the Perseverance talent. Make sure he has the tol barad trinket also. As for healers, I suggest you replace the resto druid with the Holy paladin, simply because they're the best for this encounter. For instance, beacon of light heals won't add stacks on purple phases.

Mana: Once you get your first Mana void up, leave it and pop any mana cd's you have. Once the next set of oozes spawn, get one melee to dps the void down to 20%, then go on boss. Then you can pop that mana void as soon as another one spawns making that mechanic a non-issue. I suggest you keep this melee on the boss each time the oozes spawn to ensure you make the enrage time.

Killing oozes: You should be able to leave one dps and tank on boss each time they spawn and still be able to kill one ooze. If your uncertain on which oozes to kill, you can always get your raidleader to download an addon spesifically for that purpose. You should also always only have one Yellow/Red/Black phase. On the Purple/red/yellow/black phase kill the yellow, that way you will never face two Yellow/Red/Black phases in a row, which in all honesty is the biggest wipe threat. Save bloodlust/heroism for the Yellow/Red/Black phase and rotate cooldowns.

Positioning: On every red phase, make sure the entire raid stacks in the middle of the boss hitbox. Dead center. Even standing on the edge of the boss hitbox will increase damage taken by alot. Also make sure your tank pops demo roar/shout to help migate damage taken by adds on black phases. If you have a dk in the group, he can death grip the mana void to the boss when you need to kill it.

For the positioning we have a hunter or two sometimes and they cannot dps the boss in the hitbox, are they a bad choice for this reason?

[hyggja]

Yea that is currently what we do, we get range to dps it to about 15% then next blue phase or intense phase we burst it.

We have our melee DPS on it during the time the next globs are coming in. If you have two melee DPS and your ranged DPS are competent this is a good method. Just make sure your ranged calls if they need help, and that your melee doesn't soften it too much.

[Deleted]

killing black is just a waste since it's the easiest to handle besides from the blue, go for yellow or green or purple depending on combos

[hyggja]

For the positioning we have a hunter or two sometimes and they cannot dps the boss in the hitbox, are they a bad choice for this reason?

They can move a bit out, but always cast multishot on the boss so it spreads to the adds. The min range on yorsahj isn't bad.