1. #1061
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glytch View Post
    if you dont like hide in shadows try withdraw, heals for less but more often
    also gives you an evade
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  2. #1062
    I am Murloc! Sy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roggles View Post
    I know, but it seems low for ranged standards.
    i agree actually. shortbow was fine if the aoes and combos are used proberly.

    i usually used pistol+dagger just for situations in which melee seemed to dangerous, doing damage and crippling with DD, 3-slot to keep range or dodge (it works great to just let big enemies like ettins run up close to you, then shadowstep back and see their slow melee spells hit the dirt) and in between that some 'auto'-hits when i had no initiative to spend. 2-slot when i was in bigger groups, for the vulnerability (it's damage seemed actually lower than 1-slot, so not really worth using in single or short fights).

    pistol+pistol certainly would do more single target dps, but it sacrifices too much utility imho, especially with DD doing way more damage than any single pistol shot anyway, in addition to it's other benefits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guilegamesh View Post
    I tried making a Charr thief in the last BWE, but I felt incredibly squishy and the heal felt like it took forever to recharge. What I want to know is, does it get better? I played a warrior up to level 18 and had a blast, I felt reasonably powerful and sturdy. I don't expect the thief to be able to eat as much damage as the warrior, but was the thief reasonable enough while solo?
    yes.

    thief felt a bit underpowered (in pve) in general, but not by a large margin. it gets a lot better once you have all your weapon sets and their dual skills, as well as 2 or 3 utility spells that you like on your bar. and keep in mind, every class is supposed to take up quite some defensive stats on gear as well. it really helped a lot when i got some nice vitality stuff at like level 12-18, as it increases your health pool significantly in relation to the small basic pool of thieves.

    still, thieves will always be meant to be more of a damage avoiding class, rather than a damage absorbing one (like warriors and necromancers). for that purpose, you get a lot of mobility and various different evade and escape mechanis, as well as other things that help with hit-and-run-tactics (or rather burst-a-bit-and-then-try-not-to-get-your-face-flattened-for-the-next-few-seconds-tactics)^^

    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    also gives you an evade
    i really like the stealth'n'heal mechanic actually, because you can stay in stealth for ~2 seconds and regenerate initiative and cooldowns (as well as various other benefits with the right trait build on higher levels), without resetting an npc, as well as having additional burst and maybe even cc for free with your stealth skills

    @_@

  3. #1063
    How much Initiative does the Signet Use trait in Critical Strikes give you?

    ---------- Post added 2012-05-04 at 09:10 PM ----------

    Does nobody know? I couldn't seem to find the exact number anywhere else - of the two places I found a specific number, one said 3 and the other 2.
    "English doesn't so much borrow words from other languages as follows them into a dark alley, hits them over the head and goes through their pockets for loose vocabulary."

  4. #1064
    The Lightbringer Glytch's Avatar
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    if you guys could help find *GOOD* discussion located in the thread and PM the url of the post that begins the discussion that'd be awesome, i want to make the first post to be a way for any1 wanting to know about the thief to be able to click links to find things we've discussed that would prove useful
    The Original Ganksta

    Top 100 US daggers. yeah, you're jelly alright

    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    then again i'm pretty sure you're smarter then the average dumbass

  5. #1065
    Quote Originally Posted by Migey View Post
    How much Initiative does the Signet Use trait in Critical Strikes give you?

    ---------- Post added 2012-05-04 at 09:10 PM ----------

    Does nobody know? I couldn't seem to find the exact number anywhere else - of the two places I found a specific number, one said 3 and the other 2.
    It would most likely be 3. Seeing as how a thief's standard initiative is 12, it would make sense for the signet use to refund 3 for 1/4 the initiative bar. 2 is just too small and 4 too large IMO. From what I saw of the initiative regen/gain traits. It often seemed to be 2-3 overall. But I could be wrong as I only went through the crit traits once and since I settled on a non signet build, I never used that trait.

  6. #1066
    Quote Originally Posted by Roggles View Post
    I know, but it seems low for ranged standards.
    What videos have you been watching? After having played pistol/pistol with a venom build I'd have to disagree with your assessment completely.

  7. #1067
    What does a venom build consist of exactly - only one of the venoms actually does damage, do you bother to use any others? Which traits, etc.

    I've heared people refer to a 'venom' build so often but rarely seen a trait set for it that looks effective - i prefer one that focuses more on stealth and initiative, with Signets and amazing burst.

    Mine is : http://www.gw2tools.com/skills#t;aNf...bUa;bbZa;YVfhb
    "English doesn't so much borrow words from other languages as follows them into a dark alley, hits them over the head and goes through their pockets for loose vocabulary."

  8. #1068
    A venom build is one that focuses on 2ish venoms (basilisk venom elite being really powerful if you've taken the right traits)... Venom Aura being a particularly awesome trait.

    Possibly something akin to this: http://gw2.luna-atra.fr/skills_tool/...0k00888b8e9bjb
    Last edited by Bluedragonwolf; 2012-05-05 at 11:17 AM.

  9. #1069
    The Lightbringer Glytch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Migey View Post
    What does a venom build consist of exactly - only one of the venoms actually does damage, do you bother to use any others? Which traits, etc.

    I've heared people refer to a 'venom' build so often but rarely seen a trait set for it that looks effective - i prefer one that focuses more on stealth and initiative, with Signets and amazing burst.

    Mine is : http://www.gw2tools.com/skills#t;aNf...bUa;bbZa;YVfhb
    if all you care abut is "power" then you're missing out on skale venom, vulnerability? yea, thats extra damage

    the power of venom focused build is they have 1) high power due to DA, and 2) you debilitate the enemy using 2-4 venoms, esp with ice skale or basilisk, DA keeps them up longer (save for basilisk) and majors like venomous stength and improvised poisons give you more

    trust me, there are builds out there thats are extremely effective, either pvp, or pve

    im just not goign to tell you what i used
    The Original Ganksta

    Top 100 US daggers. yeah, you're jelly alright

    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    then again i'm pretty sure you're smarter then the average dumbass

  10. #1070
    Okay then.

    So you type in broken grammar and mispell half your words and make misinformed statements and refuse to tell me what you use?

    Right. I feel compelled to you seriously.

    Although I suppose it would be unfair to not give you the benefit of the doubt and point out that if i need Vunerability then Cloak and Dagger applies that, and while it may not do so quite as efficiently or effectively, it does so well enough that one cannot really justify using a utility skill slot for Skale Venom with a double dagger build.

    This build does have decent condition damage with all the points sunk into Trickery and Leaping Death Blossom, and Roll for Intiative can be swapped out for Spider Venom if one wants. Shortbow also obviously has multiple bleeds and poisons which work well with that.
    "English doesn't so much borrow words from other languages as follows them into a dark alley, hits them over the head and goes through their pockets for loose vocabulary."

  11. #1071
    The Lightbringer Glytch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Migey View Post
    Okay then.

    So you type in broken grammar and mispell half your words and make misinformed statements and refuse to tell me what you use?

    Right. I feel compelled to you seriously.

    Although I suppose it would be unfair to not give you the benefit of the doubt and point out that if i need Vunerability then Cloak and Dagger applies that, and while it may not do so quite as efficiently or effectively, it does so well enough that one cannot really justify using a utility skill slot for Skale Venom with a double dagger build.

    This build does have decent condition damage with all the points sunk into Trickery and Leaping Death Blossom, and Roll for Intiative can be swapped out for Spider Venom if one wants. Shortbow also obviously has multiple bleeds and poisons which work well with that.
    look closer and youll see a consistency

    they are typos, relax, im not going to fix them for you

    vuln stacks intensity so they can be applied together but more importantly than that skale venom gives you a source of vuln and weakness without having to drop 6 init

    in case you didnt know, that's alot

    in addition skale venom can be spread around to multiple foes via dancing dagger or trick shot whereas CnD cant

    if you dont want to drop a util slot for skale then that's you're choice, but something tells me you dont fully understand what venoms are meant to do

    also if you're running a venom build with venomous aura then yea, skale poison's usefulness jump dramatically since it will apply to everyone around you

    also if you're REALLY dying to know what i used in hotjoin its pretty stupidly easy to reverse engineer my build based off the post i gave for the beta... i mean its not like theres a crap ton of hints lying around...
    Last edited by Glytch; 2012-05-05 at 06:50 PM.
    The Original Ganksta

    Top 100 US daggers. yeah, you're jelly alright

    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    then again i'm pretty sure you're smarter then the average dumbass

  12. #1072
    I am Murloc! Sy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pleaserelax View Post
    What videos have you been watching? After having played pistol/pistol with a venom build I'd have to disagree with your assessment completely.
    videos? we are all talking about beta experience.
    and i do agree with Roggles, from what i've experienced in level 1-20 pve. haven't tried much pvp/highlevel.

    and keep in mind that pistol+pistol is probably as 'pure damage' as it gets. it sacrifices A LOT of utility in comparison to shortbow, pistol+dagger or a melee set.
    what other sets/builds have you been testing?

    @_@

  13. #1073
    The Lightbringer Glytch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sy View Post
    videos? we are all talking about beta experience.
    and i do agree with Roggles, from what i've experienced in level 1-20 pve. haven't tried much pvp/highlevel.

    and keep in mind that pistol+pistol is probably as 'pure damage' as it gets. it sacrifices A LOT of utility in comparison to shortbow, pistol+dagger or a melee set.
    what other sets/builds have you been testing?
    off hand pistols have 2 pretty decent utilities with a ranged daze and a ranged blind that also creates a smoke field... which you can combo another blind shot via projectile (what pistols use)
    The Original Ganksta

    Top 100 US daggers. yeah, you're jelly alright

    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    then again i'm pretty sure you're smarter then the average dumbass

  14. #1074
    I am Murloc! Sy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glytch View Post
    off hand pistols have 2 pretty decent utilities with a ranged daze and a ranged blind that also creates a smoke field... which you can combo another blind shot via projectile (what pistols use)
    problem is that neither of those actually do much against most enemies, if you are ranged. with pistol+dagger you get an additional evade/kite tool (which is awesome for ranged), an additional stealth for when you are caught of guard in melee range and/or want to make use of stealth traits and the free burst damage, and a 4-target high damage aoe and 5sec cripple (which is also awesome for ranged) on low cost.

    all three pistol+pistol skills have a cost of five, and only one of them does good damage -- and even then only against one single target.

    in the end, i can definitely see why people like the style of dual pistols, but i just think it's not worth it (over sword/dagger+pistol for melee or pistol+dagger for ranged) with the current numbers :/

    @_@

  15. #1075
    The Lightbringer Glytch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sy View Post
    problem is that neither of those actually do much against most enemies, if you are ranged. with pistol+dagger you get an additional evade/kite tool (which is awesome for ranged), an additional stealth for when you are caught of guard in melee range and/or want to make use of stealth traits and the free burst damage, and a 4-target high damage aoe and 5sec cripple (which is also awesome for ranged) on low cost.

    all three pistol+pistol skills have a cost of five, and only one of them does good damage -- and even then only against one single target.

    in the end, i can definitely see why people like the style of dual pistols, but i just think it's not worth it (over sword/dagger+pistol for melee or pistol+dagger for ranged) with the current numbers :/
    pistol pistol is more like a GvG utility ranger or a paragon from GW1, you're in the midline screwing with other casters while still putting out pressure

    not a perfect analogy but that's how i see headshot and black powder
    The Original Ganksta

    Top 100 US daggers. yeah, you're jelly alright

    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    then again i'm pretty sure you're smarter then the average dumbass

  16. #1076
    I am Murloc! Sy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glytch View Post
    pistol pistol is more like a GvG utility ranger or a paragon from GW1, you're in the midline screwing with other casters while still putting out pressure

    not a perfect analogy but that's how i see headshot and black powder
    as i haven't played gw1 (except for a few hours of the trial version) i have pretty much no idea what you are trying to tell me^^
    i agree though, i think 4&5-slot of pistols can be pretty good in pvp, where enemies will have many ranged attacks and visible casts. i still think it's not worth sacrificing all the nice stuff you'd get from one of the other sets, but whatever^^

    @_@

  17. #1077
    The Lightbringer Glytch's Avatar
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    this just in: Anet has decided to give thieves axes as an additional weapon, both offhand and main hand

    i managed to find this leaked dev video of an Axe/dagger thief

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSa0Xg-YadY

    he has a shortbow too
    Last edited by Glytch; 2012-05-06 at 11:45 PM.
    The Original Ganksta

    Top 100 US daggers. yeah, you're jelly alright

    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    then again i'm pretty sure you're smarter then the average dumbass

  18. #1078
    Scarab Lord Loaf Lord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glytch View Post
    this just in: Anet has decided to give thieves axes as an additional weapon, both offhand and main hand

    i managed to find this leaked dev video of an Axe/dagger thief

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSa0Xg-YadY

    he has a shortbow too
    To hell you go.

  19. #1079
    The Lightbringer Glytch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roggles View Post
    To hell you go.
    i love you too
    The Original Ganksta

    Top 100 US daggers. yeah, you're jelly alright

    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    then again i'm pretty sure you're smarter then the average dumbass

  20. #1080
    backstab + weapon sigils + 150% signet = death

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