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  1. #1441
    The Lightbringer Glytch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roggles View Post
    UMD? /10chars
    use magical device
    The Original Ganksta

    Top 100 US daggers. yeah, you're jelly alright

    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    then again i'm pretty sure you're smarter then the average dumbass

  2. #1442
    Quote Originally Posted by Atelniar View Post
    I'm really weird. I know the shortbow is pretty powerful and therefore always used as the weapon of choice to switch into for ranged in my case, but I actually find Sword + pistol amazingly good in PvE. The downside with said ability is that #3 roots you in place and is easily dodged, which makes it easy to avoid in PvP. But it feels good, even if you miss the "cloak and dagger" ability (stealth + wound).

    I highly enjoyed the Thief class and felt as if it was pretty powerful. That was until I ran into a certain dragon shaman in a cave with his bloody elementals which spawn and multiply ontop of you at an increadible pace. Tried kiting the boss mob around and got him pretty far down before I messed up and he went back to full health. Using Shadowstep to kite, along with the shortbow and Tripwire to keep elementals at bay. I failed horribly when I got to that point. Now that the beta is over I realized that I should probably have switched the healing + stealth utility for the one which evades and heals you.

    Up until that point I felt fairly good about Thief combat, overall at least, but I couldn't help but notice as well that our utility comes from traits more so than weapons. It caused a minor concern for me. I'm still going to play a Thief at launch, I think, it was very enjoyable until I hit the wall of ice elementals in that cave.
    I think everyone had problems with that shaman guy according to the forums.

  3. #1443
    Quote Originally Posted by Roggles View Post
    I think everyone had problems with that shaman guy according to the forums.
    Yea, he was hard as nails. Didn't help that I was lvl 10ish when I tried to enter and poorly geared. But he could be killed, as long as you did not fail on the kiting (mandatory with all those blasted elementals). Closest I got was probably 10% or something.
    There is common sense and ignorance. Choose one and accept the consequences.

  4. #1444
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    I just seriously find it more likely that we'll get off-hand sword, axes, or maces before we ever get magical weapons. Or even hand crossbows.

    ---------- Post added 2012-06-11 at 06:13 PM ----------

    Interesting idea I had that could solve a few issues with initiative...

    What if our 2-5 skills had a low initiative cost, but every time you use a skill, that skill’s initiative cost goes up slightly. So that chaining it is possible, but still restricts you from using every skill. With this you can choose to spend small amounts of initiative spreading your skills out, or to dump it all into one skill.

    This chain of cost increase can either reset when you use another skill, or last a few seconds. I prefer the first one, as we’re then encouraged to combo skills together.

    Example: Death Blossom, costs 3 initiative. Second use, it costs 5. Thief use, it costs 7, which means you can't use it again unless you regenerate some initiative.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  5. #1445
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    I just seriously find it more likely that we'll get off-hand sword, axes, or maces before we ever get magical weapons. Or even hand crossbows.
    I would not say no to dual wielding swords, actually. Would be fun to see what they would do with that. Or an axe, for that matter.
    There is common sense and ignorance. Choose one and accept the consequences.

  6. #1446
    The Lightbringer Glytch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atelniar View Post
    I would not say no to dual wielding swords, actually. Would be fun to see what they would do with that. Or an axe, for that matter.
    probably give the dual skill for s/s an aoe whirlwind move thus making dervishes obsolete
    The Original Ganksta

    Top 100 US daggers. yeah, you're jelly alright

    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    then again i'm pretty sure you're smarter then the average dumbass

  7. #1447
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glytch View Post
    probably give the dual skill for s/s an aoe whirlwind move thus making dervishes obsolete
    The theme of Swords so far seems to be around evasion, shadowstepping, dazing/stunng (look at the stealth skill), and just generally being difficult to kill, so that doesn't sound right. Plus, D/D is already... basically... an aoe whirlwind move. Perhaps some kind of "cross cut" move. In fact, that sounds like a good name for a skill.

    Interesting thought: Ranger and Warrior support weapon skills are entirely from Warhorn. I wonder if that could be worked into the Thief motif somehow.

    ---------- Post added 2012-06-11 at 06:35 PM ----------

    In addition, and I've brought this up before, Thief has the least weapon options, except for Elementalist. (yes, we have less than Engineer, because of their kits. I did the math once on how many different unique weapon combinations Engineers have with the different ways to combine their normal weapon slot with their utility slot kits, and the number was over 200)

    Just look at the chart here: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weapon
    Without counting our underwater weapons (which are always the same setup anyways, unless you grab two Harpoons or Spearguns for some reason), we only have 7 weapon combinations total.
    Elementalist, not counting Trident... has 5.

    How the hell did that happen?
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  8. #1448
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    The theme of Swords so far seems to be around evasion, shadowstepping, dazing/stunng (look at the stealth skill), and just generally being difficult to kill, so that doesn't sound right. Plus, D/D is already... basically... an aoe whirlwind move. Perhaps some kind of "cross cut" move. In fact, that sounds like a good name for a skill.

    Interesting thought: Ranger and Warrior support weapon skills are entirely from Warhorn. I wonder if that could be worked into the Thief motif somehow.
    Although the stealth ability is actually dagger specific, I agree. I feel the sword gives the melee combat good impact, but it would have to be noticably different from Sword+dagger or else it would be a little pointless. The Shadowstep ability, for instance, could need a change. Perhaps adding a crippling or bleeding effect upon use (a charged double-stab Shadowstep would cripple most people). Making it a hit and run ability which would combine well with a Shortbow switch. 3 and 4 would need a redesign and probably 5 as well.
    There is common sense and ignorance. Choose one and accept the consequences.

  9. #1449
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    The #1 skill poisons. The #3 skill immobilizes targets in an aoe for like 2-3 seconds, on a 10-15 second CD. The #2 skill actually has a fairly long-ish CD. It only stealths for about 2-3 seconds, and the wiki says it has a 20 second cooldown (which feels about right). I'm also pretty sure the #2 isn't available immediately, though I could be wrong. You just need to find him better and stop being bad. Try dazing him or something. I know the "Finish him!" interaction is tantalizing, but it might be easier to actually just damage him the normal way, with dazing and stunning and immobs.

    Seriously, don't bitch about that #2 until you've been a Thief and frequently used it, only to find it doesn't save your ass as well as you want it to.
    Drake the dude was hacking because every time I'd hit F to finish him he'd immediately use the 2 skill again, EVERY TIME, had no issue killing other thiefs (except in rare situations they'd teleport up a story in which case I said fuck it), only this one dude, I eventually just made sure I got bleeds and poisons and burns on him and let him die in agony

    ---------- Post added 2012-06-11 at 07:35 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    The theme of Swords so far seems to be around evasion, shadowstepping, dazing/stunng (look at the stealth skill), and just generally being difficult to kill, so that doesn't sound right. Plus, D/D is already... basically... an aoe whirlwind move. Perhaps some kind of "cross cut" move. In fact, that sounds like a good name for a skill.

    Interesting thought: Ranger and Warrior support weapon skills are entirely from Warhorn. I wonder if that could be worked into the Thief motif somehow.

    ---------- Post added 2012-06-11 at 06:35 PM ----------

    In addition, and I've brought this up before, Thief has the least weapon options, except for Elementalist. (yes, we have less than Engineer, because of their kits. I did the math once on how many different unique weapon combinations Engineers have with the different ways to combine their normal weapon slot with their utility slot kits, and the number was over 200)

    Just look at the chart here: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weapon
    Without counting our underwater weapons (which are always the same setup anyways, unless you grab two Harpoons or Spearguns for some reason), we only have 7 weapon combinations total.
    Elementalist, not counting Trident... has 5.

    How the hell did that happen?
    Warhorn + thief seems counter productive... I can see a torch though and considering it as "light" so you'd then use the 3 skill for when you don't have an off hand equipped for that weapon.

    I could see the torch being used for distracting, like maye you get a skill where you throw a torch forward dazing anyone it passes through and stealthing you, and then maybe a skill to signal a thief alley or to grant some sort of boon
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  10. #1450
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    Drake the dude was hacking because every time I'd hit F to finish him he'd immediately use the 2 skill again, EVERY TIME, had no issue killing other thiefs (except in rare situations they'd teleport up a story in which case I said fuck it), only this one dude, I eventually just made sure I got bleeds and poisons and burns on him and let him die in agony
    That honestly sounds exaggerated. I died super fast with even one enemy hitting me in a Downed state, all the while desperately wishing my #2 was off CD. And then when I use it, all it did was teleport me directly under the enemy, or 10 feet to the right. Sometimes I'd get lucky and teleport to a second platform or level that was directly above me. And that's some crazy luck.

    When the person first uses Smoke Bomb, wait just long enough to see where he pops out. He won't have gone far, and your finishing move interaction doesn't take 15 seconds to cast.

    With one enemy on me, I could probably use that #2 skill once or twice, but I'm still going to die unless he's low HP.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  11. #1451
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    That honestly sounds exaggerated. I died super fast with even one enemy hitting me in a Downed state, all the while desperately wishing my #2 was off CD. And then when I use it, all it did was teleport me directly under the enemy, or 10 feet to the right.

    When the person first uses Smoke Bomb, wait just long enough to see where he pops out. He won't have gone far.

    With one enemy on me, I could probably use that #2 skill once or twice, but I'm still going to die unless he's low HP.
    Drake I know how to kill downed thieves I was doin it all beta (you guys née to really stop diving straight into capture points with a loan ranger defending, you know not like there'd be traps...) just that ONE THIEF es spamming it religiously my friend who was also playing a thief accused him of hacking, it was pretty ridiculous
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  12. #1452
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Maybe he was hacking then. *shrugs*

    We've already heard reports of it after all.

    Come to think of it, I wonder how having a shadow refuge or smokescreen on top of when downed and using the 1 and 3 skills works out.
    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Smoke_Field
    Hrm... it shouldn't cause stealthing unless somebody else nearby is using a Blast finisher.
    Last edited by DrakeWurrum; 2012-06-12 at 12:54 AM.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  13. #1453
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Maybe he was hacking then. *shrugs*

    We've already heard reports of it after all.

    Come to think of it, I wonder how having a shadow refuge or smokescreen on top of when downed and using the 1 and 3 skills works out.
    I have seen someone drop a shadows refuge right before dying an he managed to rez himself with bandages and escape.... barely... He ran right through my spiked trap and then limped into the shadows lol! Not sure what smokescreen does though...

    PS: blinding no longer prevents "Finish Them!!"
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  14. #1454
    The Lightbringer Glytch's Avatar
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    guys im looking to update the OP to help new thieves, any suggestions on what things to put in it?

    i dotn really want to put the "no shit sherlock" stuff like "this is what the dagger skills are!" but actually... you know... helpful stuff
    The Original Ganksta

    Top 100 US daggers. yeah, you're jelly alright

    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    then again i'm pretty sure you're smarter then the average dumbass

  15. #1455
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glytch View Post
    guys im looking to update the OP to help new thieves, any suggestions on what things to put in it?

    i dotn really want to put the "no shit sherlock" stuff like "this is what the dagger skills are!" but actually... you know... helpful stuff
    Totally say how thieves are supposed to be evasive and stealthy to stay alive and not just stand infront of the enemy and spam attacks! An how blowing through all your initiative at once causes bad things to happen to you!
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  16. #1456
    Resource management needs to be a key feature of any new player guide.

  17. #1457
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    Resource management needs to be a key feature of any new player guide.
    Lol so many people couldn't seem to realize they needed to conserve initiative and/or not use their abilities on CD... God I'm gonna hate it when people start figuring out the game and how to play cause then I'll no longer be super amazing st the pvp xD
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  18. #1458
    Quote Originally Posted by Glytch View Post
    guys im looking to update the OP to help new thieves, any suggestions on what things to put in it?

    i dotn really want to put the "no shit sherlock" stuff like "this is what the dagger skills are!" but actually... you know... helpful stuff
    Or using pistol whip at the right time (Haste, Immobilized, something) = all the hits landing

    Orrrrrrrr, if you trait to give boons on steal...don't forget to use steal

    Orrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, if you trait into acrobatics, friggin' dodge stuff.

    Orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, just in general, if you trait something specific...use that something specific. So many folks forgetting this.
    Last edited by FozzieBlair; 2012-06-12 at 05:27 PM.

  19. #1459
    The Lightbringer Glytch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    Resource management needs to be a key feature of any new player guide.
    while it should be helpful to new thieves i want there to be a strong community for advanced tactics that can be applied to explorables, hotjoin, and tournament tier pvp

    this thread is not going to be thief 101
    The Original Ganksta

    Top 100 US daggers. yeah, you're jelly alright

    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    then again i'm pretty sure you're smarter then the average dumbass

  20. #1460
    I found Pistol Whip to be pretty damn OP when people pull it off, was getting hit for like 10k+
    "Loss of blood... My only weakness!"
    ~ Warlord Khan, Magicka

    Anyway, if you don't already see where I'm going with this, allow me to spell it out: the only meaningful MMORPG "endgame" -- i.e., something novel to do after the progression process is over -- is that of the sandbox.

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