GW2 Thief Discussion

[Loaf Lord]

Hide in Shadows would be too much Stealth IMO.

I think the spirit of a Thief should be sneak and kill fast while being unpredictable. Lots of pressure. I don't think it will be very beneficial to start a thief with a "I must be able to get away ASAP" mentality. You already have a plethora of weapon abilities who, when used smartly, give you on-demand stealth and mobility. Your utility abilities in the other hand, have pretty long cooldowns and should be handpicked to support you in distinct moments of the fight that you should identify yourself based on your play style.

For example, Roggles, you say you're going with Shortbow and then you're taking Shadowstep. That's redundant IMO. Shortbow already gives Infiltrator's Arrow which is basically a much better Shadowstep. It has no cooldown, costs only 6 Initiative and blinds your enemies for 5 sec. In comparison, Shadowstep has a 50sec cooldown and has no other effect. So I'd suggest dropping that Shadowstep for something that will support your Double Dagger, or your Short Bow. You'll also have to sort your traits too before choosing your Utility abilities so you can take advantage of your strengths. You don't want to go all out on poisons and then take a bleed utility.

As for the weapon choice, Double Dagger seems to be a must in PvP. Shortbow is great too for Infiltrator's Arrow mostly, but I think that Daze in Off-hand Pistol is even better (Head Shot). Depends actually on what the Daze effectively can and can't do, if it can interrupt an Elite Ability then I know I'll be holding a pistol in my offhand.

Hmmm... I see what you mean. The reason I chose shadow step was so I could basically get do two infils arrows THEN a shadow step if I was in a tight bind and had to get away from my enemies asap, but I might choose scorpion wire over it now, or a type of venom.

---------- Post added 2012-02-27 at 10:03 PM ----------

Wish they had a trait calculator so I could make a build.

[DrunkenBeard]

@Roggles, one dodge forward + Infiltrator's Arrow + Stealth is more than enough to get away from anyone Especially if you're using your Infiltrator's Arrow over roofs.

All in all, here are all the ways a Thief can get Stealth :

Steal with Hidden Thief (30s CD)
Off-Hand Dagger : Cloak and Dagger (5 Initiative, No CD)

Shadow Refuge : Mass Healing + Stealth while inside the refuge (60s CD)
Shadow Trap : Vanish + Shadowstep to the trap on trigger (30s CD)
Blinding Powder : Mass Blind + Mass Vanish (60s CD)
Hide in Shadows : Vanish + Regen (30s CD)

Now let's see. Steal and CnD are almost mandatory in a PvP setting mostly because of the Stealth factor itself. The off-hand Dagger insures that you're always able to Stealth whenever you have 5 Initiative (Do you need a target ? Not sure). Shadow Refuge is a PvE ability, or at best something you'd use in WvW. The only cool use in a 1v1 situation I can see is pre-stealthing, popping Shadow Refuge somewhere and go chill there. The pre-stealth is to avoid your opponent seeing you enter the Shadow Refuge and just AoEing the hell out of you. Could be interesting to do, but yeah it's a 60s CD and you can probably find better 60s utilities. Which leaves us 3 good looking Stealth abilities on top of CnD and Steal. I'm just gonna dismiss Shadow Trap. It is certainly great, but it focuses on offense a little too much and most importantly it requires your opponent to trigger it, so it's not really on demand, more like : when i'll be able to fool him into the trap. Great for ambushes and openers, but I'm not sure it's that great in the heart of the action. Which leaves Blinding Powder and Hide in Shadows. Honestly, both are very great tools and depend entirely on the play style and the situation. Anything with Blind is good in my books, must be a great feeling timing it just before your opponent goes for his heal and see him miserably miss. Hide in Shadows has that sexy 30s CD though, so ... yeah ... on the fence here. Should also depend on how much you'll actually need that 3rd vanish in battle.

[Loaf Lord]

h f (Do you need a target ? Not sure).

I believe you have to stab someone successfully for the vanish to work. Also, what are your thoughts on scorpion wire? I think it'll be a very handy when I desperately need to yank someone to me, like if I'm peeling off a friend or something.

[Glytch]

@Roggles, one dodge forward + Infiltrator's Arrow + Stealth is more than enough to get away from anyone Especially if you're using your Infiltrator's Arrow over roofs.

All in all, here are all the ways a Thief can get Stealth :

Steal with Hidden Thief (30s CD)
Off-Hand Dagger : Cloak and Dagger (5 Initiative, No CD)

Shadow Refuge : Mass Healing + Stealth while inside the refuge (60s CD)
Shadow Trap : Vanish + Shadowstep to the trap on trigger (30s CD)
Blinding Powder : Mass Blind + Mass Vanish (60s CD)
Hide in Shadows : Vanish + Regen (30s CD)

Now let's see. Steal and CnD are almost mandatory in a PvP setting mostly because of the Stealth factor itself. The off-hand Dagger insures that you're always able to Stealth whenever you have 5 Initiative (Do you need a target ? Not sure). Shadow Refuge is a PvE ability, or at best something you'd use in WvW. The only cool use in a 1v1 situation I can see is pre-stealthing, popping Shadow Refuge somewhere and go chill there. The pre-stealth is to avoid your opponent seeing you enter the Shadow Refuge and just AoEing the hell out of you. Could be interesting to do, but yeah it's a 60s CD and you can probably find better 60s utilities. Which leaves us 3 good looking Stealth abilities on top of CnD and Steal. I'm just gonna dismiss Shadow Trap. It is certainly great, but it focuses on offense a little too much and most importantly it requires your opponent to trigger it, so it's not really on demand, more like : when i'll be able to fool him into the trap. Great for ambushes and openers, but I'm not sure it's that great in the heart of the action. Which leaves Blinding Powder and Hide in Shadows. Honestly, both are very great tools and depend entirely on the play style and the situation. Anything with Blind is good in my books, must be a great feeling timing it just before your opponent goes for his heal and see him miserably miss. Hide in Shadows has that sexy 30s CD though, so ... yeah ... on the fence here. Should also depend on how much you'll actually need that 3rd vanish in battle.

i see the stealth moves less as get out of jails and more of ways to access stealth moves

also im pretty certain you cant blind a heal

[DrunkenBeard]

@Glytch, I think you're right on Blind not affecting Heals and it's too bad :/

@Roggles, Actually just checked on Guru and it seems that yes you can Stealth using CnD without hitting a target. As for Scorpion Wire, I don't really see how it can be helpful in getting away Unless you're planning to use it the same way Rogues in WoW use sometimes Shadowstep to step over an enemy just to get away from another and cause some confusion

[Loaf Lord]

@Glytch, I think you're right on Blind not affecting Heals and it's too bad :/

@Roggles, Actually just checked on Guru and it seems that yes you can Stealth using CnD without hitting a target. As for Scorpion Wire, I don't really see how it can be helpful in getting away Unless you're planning to use it the same way Rogues in WoW use sometimes Shadowstep to step over an enemy just to get away from another and cause some confusion

CnD and not having to hit the target is pretty awesome. But I was planning on using scorpion wire as a gap closer or to peel off somebody.

[Glytch]

CnD and not having to hit the target is pretty awesome. But I was planning on using scorpion wire as a gap closer or to peel off somebody.

thief tank!

[Loaf Lord]

thief tank!

lol no. Just if somebodies getting romped and needs that enemy away from them, or to yank a pesky ranged to me so I can go stabby stabby.

[DrunkenBeard]

CnD and not having to hit the target is pretty awesome. But I was planning on using scorpion wire as a gap closer or to peel off somebody.

I see Scorpion Wire definitely being great in any sort of PvP involving team play. In a 1v1 situation though, people will generally be chasing you not the other way around, unless you're fighting a caster but in that case you have lots of abilities that have "Leap" in them, which should help when you combine that with crippling shots and forward dodges. All that being said, I just noticed that Scorpion Wire also interrupts the target so if you aren't planning to go with a Pistol in off-hand I think it could be viable to spec Scorpion Wire if only to be able to interrupt. It remains to be seen though if interrupting works on Elite Abilities, because when that Elementalist pops Tornado and wants to be all like (ﾉಥ益ಥ)ﾉ ┻━┻, I wanna be all like ┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)

[Loaf Lord]

because when that Elementalist pops Tornado and wants to be all like (ﾉಥ益ಥ)ﾉ ┻━┻, I wanna be all like ┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)

lol, that's when you equip your shortbow and gtfo!

[Autumn xD]

Are they sure CnD Stealth goes off without a target?
Press Beta video shows it doesn't:
http://youtu.be/aqnvO3NTXHM?t=25s

Also, on the topic of Blind, does anyone know if Blind's effect will still work if used on a target that is mid-cast? (If that makes any sense)

[Glytch]

lol no. Just if somebodies getting romped and needs that enemy away from them, or to yank a pesky ranged to me so I can go stabby stabby.

/sarcasm tag

[DrakeWurrum]

It remains to be seen though if interrupting works on Elite Abilities, because when that Elementalist pops Tornado and wants to be all like (ﾉಥ益ಥ)ﾉ ┻━┻, I wanna be all like ┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)

That elite skill transforms you into a tornado form that gives you access to new weapon skill abilities and locks you out of the rest of your bar, the way Necromancers can transform into a Lich. It's not some kind of channeled cast where you are just moving around as a tornado.

Plus, don't you think it would be a major downer to pop an elite skill only for an enemy to be all "NOPE, CAN'T DO THAT!" and... well, then it's on CD. So much for the skill being elite, don't you think?

[Loaf Lord]

Something tells me I'm gonna be having a lot of fun with leaping death blossom. Been waiting for acrobatics in an MMO for a while.

[Larynx]

Something tells me I'm gonna be having a lot of fun with leaping death blossom. Been waiting for acrobatics in an MMO for a while.

I laugh when I picture a Charr doing it.

[Loaf Lord]

I laugh when I picture a Charr doing it.

Luckily I'll be a human.

[Larynx]

Luckily I'll be a human.

The inferior race as always.

[Alistairr]

The inferior race as always.

Hey, watch it! I am most likely going to be a Human or Sylvari. I don't want to look like a cat or a gnome like creature. And I have had played plenty Nords lately in games. However I got to wait and see, who knows maybe the Charr will be my favourite?

[Glytch]

The inferior race as always.

violin string

[Armond]

Scorpion Wire is going to be mandatory in high-level PvP. Pulling someone out of range of their healer and into the face of one of your team's biggest damage dealers? Priceless.