1. #2001
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    @all this Mind Wrack talk:

    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mind_Wrack

    Damage listed is the total damage; with more illusions the damage per illusion goes down.
    Find myself thinking they just fully intend for this skill to not really be that useful.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  2. #2002
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    @all this Mind Wrack talk:

    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mind_Wrack



    Find myself thinking they just fully intend for this skill to not really be that useful.
    Mind wreck should be redesigned in itself. I think the concept of damage shattering will be broken with phantasms the way they are now. I use daze and distortion more then anything. Maybe have it grant protection for yourself or something.

  3. #2003
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Mind wreck should be redesigned in itself. I think the concept of damage shattering will be broken with phantasms the way they are now. I use daze and distortion more then anything. Maybe have it grant protection for yourself or something.
    Frankly, the problem is just that phantasms are shatterable at all. On paper it seems like an interesting decision, but only if the numbers are effectively balanced so that the sudden burst of a big BOOM shatter actually proves more useful than just leaving as many phantasms alive as possible, and only if the clones and phantasms don't interfere with each other.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  4. #2004
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    @all this Mind Wrack talk:


    Find myself thinking they just fully intend for this skill to not really be that useful.
    It's useful as an AoE, on short lived mobs...?
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  5. #2005
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    It's useful as an AoE, on short lived mobs...?
    i.e. not really that useful in the long run. I haven't played my Mesmer nearly as much as my Guardian or Thief or Elementalist, so maybe it improves higher up, but on short-lived mobs, I'd rather just blow them up without illusions at all. Much less hassle that way.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  6. #2006
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    It's useful as an AoE, on short lived mobs...?
    Iwarden and Izerker

  7. #2007
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    i.e. not really that useful in the long run. I haven't played my Mesmer nearly as much as my Guardian or Thief or Elementalist, so maybe it improves higher up, but on short-lived mobs, I'd rather just blow them up without illusions at all. Much less hassle that way.
    Gearing full toughness like I have (melee), just swinging blindly without illusions is possible, but it takes awhile. However! Mirror Images + Illusionary Leap (no teleport) -> Mind Wrack, Teleport in, Blurred Frenzy through the immobilize, cleave down what's left...

    Apart from bugged as sin Warden, it's really the only burst AoE we have (with Chaos Storm being the only non-target restricted one at all, and that's not really "burst").

    Quote Originally Posted by zito
    Iwarden and Izerker
    Berserker's useless as an AoE more than one swing. Can't be aimed to ensure optimal damage output, and then the Target dies between its recharge and it's on its longer-than-my-ex-could-last cooldown. It has potential, but it's really limited in its application.
    Last edited by Kelesti; 2012-09-23 at 11:39 PM.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
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  8. #2008
    i like the idea of whoever posted about phantasms having special effects when shattered. they should at least do a lot more shatter damage than clones.
    Battlemaster Ralamus (retired rogue)
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  9. #2009
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralamus View Post
    i like the idea of whoever posted about phantasms having special effects when shattered. they should at least do a lot more shatter damage than clones.

    My suggestion is have 5 illusion slots. 3 are clones, 1 is "weapon" phantasm one is "utility" phantasm. You can not shatter your phantasms. Phantasms come with an added chain attack (like our blocks) which either shatter or add a different effect. Like wardens chain will be you can teleport to your current location (since it deflects projectiles). Utility phantasms will work the same way except they are Idefender and Idisenchanter which are lesser phantasms and should not really compete for a spot.

    This makes phantasms less "use on cd" and more "use when you need it". Do I need a deflector or do I need a cripple? Do I need more damage from the amount of conditions I have or do I need more burst? All things that should be considered ARE NOT, currently its use on cd which we shouldn't.

  10. #2010
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    My suggestion is have 5 illusion slots. 3 are clones, 1 is "weapon" phantasm one is "utility" phantasm. You can not shatter your phantasms. Phantasms come with an added chain attack (like our blocks) which either shatter or add a different effect. Like wardens chain will be you can teleport to your current location (since it deflects projectiles). Utility phantasms will work the same way except they are Idefender and Idisenchanter which are lesser phantasms and should not really compete for a spot.

    This makes phantasms less "use on cd" and more "use when you need it". Do I need a deflector or do I need a cripple? Do I need more damage from the amount of conditions I have or do I need more burst? All things that should be considered ARE NOT, currently its use on cd which we shouldn't.
    yeah, that definitely sounds like a nice idea too.
    Battlemaster Ralamus (retired rogue)
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  11. #2011
    I can't even think of the last time I Mind Wracked anything. That seems like it does it a change.
    <-- That is otterly adorable.

  12. #2012
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralamus View Post
    yeah, that definitely sounds like a nice idea too.
    It of course was shot down on the main site 3 times during beta for being... idk not a lot of phantasms? Like the current design is better...

  13. #2013
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    It of course was shot down on the main site 3 times during beta for being... idk not a lot of phantasms? Like the current design is better...
    hopefully they make some sort of positive adjustment to it, i believe they will though. they've been pretty good with updates and such so far
    Battlemaster Ralamus (retired rogue)
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  14. #2014
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    My suggestion is have 5 illusion slots. 3 are clones, 1 is "weapon" phantasm one is "utility" phantasm. You can not shatter your phantasms. Phantasms come with an added chain attack (like our blocks) which either shatter or add a different effect. Like wardens chain will be you can teleport to your current location (since it deflects projectiles). Utility phantasms will work the same way except they are Idefender and Idisenchanter which are lesser phantasms and should not really compete for a spot.

    This makes phantasms less "use on cd" and more "use when you need it". Do I need a deflector or do I need a cripple? Do I need more damage from the amount of conditions I have or do I need more burst? All things that should be considered ARE NOT, currently its use on cd which we shouldn't.
    Sounds MUCH more mechanically interesting, yes. Though ideally, they would also add a third utility Phantasm to choose from.

    It's almost too bad there's no Phantasmal Bomber.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  15. #2015
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Sounds MUCH more mechanically interesting, yes. Though ideally, they would also add a third utility Phantasm to choose from.

    It's almost too bad there's no Phantasmal Bomber.
    Another phantasm wouldn't be out of the question however they need to fix Idefender so you don't have to be next to it to get its buff and Idisenchanter needs to not suck.

  16. #2016
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Zito if they were to do what you want they'd need to nerf phantasams... and frankly i'd rather they didn't because i prefer dropping a clone (which greatly helps with survivability unless i'm using duelist, yes duelist not warden) in exchange for damage... like sure your idea is all nice and sparkly and all the mesmers would foam at the mouth about how they can have both their sword and shield but really, it just seems like shit. I mean your idea flat out destroys the phantasm build, like it can not even be salvaged from that wreck, not to mention the whole "Who the hell brings utility phantasms anyway?" argument, essentially making a worthless slot that no one but like 2 people would ever use.

    As for the whole "Oh no shattering phantasms is awful blah blah blah blah blah" seriously give me a break, you just think it's awful because you either A) don't know what you're talking about, B) seem to be under the illusion that a phantasm is far greater then a shatter in any scenario, or C) Don't seem to pay attention to the fact you can shatter your phantasms right before they die and get more of an effect out of them...

    I don't feel like repeating myself yet again so i'm just going to leave my post at that... if you want to see my scenarios for why you'd shatter phantasms just go read back on it...
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  17. #2017
    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    Zito if they were to do what you want they'd need to nerf phantasams... and frankly i'd rather they didn't because i prefer dropping a clone (which greatly helps with survivability unless i'm using duelist, yes duelist not warden) in exchange for damage... like sure your idea is all nice and sparkly and all the mesmers would foam at the mouth about how they can have both their sword and shield but really, it just seems like shit. I mean your idea flat out destroys the phantasm build, like it can not even be salvaged from that wreck, not to mention the whole "Who the hell brings utility phantasms anyway?" argument, essentially making a worthless slot that no one but like 2 people would ever use.

    As for the whole "Oh no shattering phantasms is awful blah blah blah blah blah" seriously give me a break, you just think it's awful because you either A) don't know what you're talking about, B) seem to be under the illusion that a phantasm is far greater then a shatter in any scenario, or C) Don't seem to pay attention to the fact you can shatter your phantasms right before they die and get more of an effect out of them...

    I don't feel like repeating myself yet again so i'm just going to leave my post at that... if you want to see my scenarios for why you'd shatter phantasms just go read back on it...
    I have no problem shattering phantasms for utility. However the current way phantasms and shatters work is shit. It is now use phantasms on cd's and if you have a phantasms out its better then mind wreck damage unless the target is low health and phantasms attack isn't about to come off cd.

    And no they don't need to nerf phantasms because you can have a phantasms up 24/7 NOW as long as it doesn't die however you are sacrificing a clone spot which is actually stupid. In fact you can have 3 up if a mob lives long enough so yea its a small indirect nerf to phantasms builds but does the current design work, hell no.

    My idea would promote phantasm usage when you need it and not on cd, give scepter an indirect buff by making its clones more useful, give shattering a buff because now phantasms are not tied with shatters so now shatters builds will be efficient. All at the cost of not having the potential of 3 phantasms up at one time. Now its limited to 2.

    Sorry I don't see your point.
    Last edited by zito; 2012-09-24 at 02:17 PM.

  18. #2018
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    I have no problem shattering phantasms for utility. However I the current want phantasms and shatters work is shit. It is now use phantasms on cd's and if you have a phantasms out its better then mind wreck damage unless the target is low health and phantasms attack isn't about to come off cd.

    And no the don't need to nerf phantasms because you can have a phantasms up 24/7 NOW as long as it doesn't die however you are sacrificing a clone spot which is actually stupid. In fact you can have 3 up if a mob lives long enough so yea its a small indirect nerf to phantasms builds but does the current design work, hell no.

    My idea would promote phantasm usage when you need it and not on cd, give scepter an indirect buff by making its clones more useful, give shattering a buff because now phantasms are not tied with shatters so now shatters builds will be efficient. All at the cost of not having the potential of 3 phantasms up at one time. Now its limited to 2.

    Sorry I don't see your point.
    They'd have to nerf phantasms because atm your have to give up a clone, which is essentially a shield between you and the enemy, NPCs see clones as more threatening then you/easier to kill where they'll, for the most part, ignore phantasms, not to mention in pvp if you're using phantasms it goes without saying no one is going to mistake you for a phantasm... clones are there as your line of defense, phantasms are there for your raw offense (warden and defender have some defensive stuff in there too so they're kinda outliers.... ESPECIALLY the defender....)

    I personally do not use phantasms on CD because that'd just be stupid especially with how much i shatter... i'll throw my illusionary mage or warlock out there sure but i'd hardly say i use them on CD, especially seeing as how my illusions don't stay alive long enough for me to even become remotely attached to them... it's like a necromancer, except my minions look as sexy as i do!

    And as for mindwracks damage it scales better then phantasms do... so yeah... i just kinda use it either as a 1) "The mobs almost dead lets kick it into the grave!" or 2) "I have 3 illusions and can summon 2-3 more in like 2 seconds, and cry of frustration is on CD" i think it goes without saying that 1) is used a lot more then 2) is, but that's just because i like to ensure they die when they get low enough...

    As for the scepter buff i personally think it'd be hilarious if the scepter clones made their own clones... so it'd be a clone of clone of a clone, it'd be like a cloneception, however i doubt that'd ever happen... so i can only dream....
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  19. #2019
    And as for mindwracks damage it scales better then phantasms do... so yeah.
    Depends on the phantasms, zerker and warden? No. Mage and warlock? yea.

    As for the scepter buff i personally think it'd be hilarious if the scepter clones made their own clones... so it'd be a clone of clone of a clone, it'd be like a cloneception, however i doubt that'd ever happen... so i can only dream....
    I meant you would have an extra clone slot not occupied by phantasms.

    They'd have to nerf phantasms because atm your have to give up a clone, which is essentially a shield between you and the enemy, NPCs see clones as more threatening then you/easier to kill where they'll, for the most part.
    They don't have to nerf phantasms because you get an extra meat shield. That is silly. Not to mention NPCs are attacking my phantasms just as much as my clones, the problem is most of the time its 2 clones to 1 phantasms so it seems like they target clones more but in reality you just have more clones.

    not to mention in pvp if you're using phantasms it goes without saying no one is going to mistake you for a phantasm... clones are there as your line of defense, phantasms are there for your raw offense (warden and defender have some defensive stuff in there too so they're kinda outliers.... ESPECIALLY the defender....)
    Phantasms are not suppose to be mistaken for yourself, that is a given and getting off from my point. Phantasms are suppose to be killed because they are deadly though. I also suggested the shattering component to my phantasms idea which gives different utility.

  20. #2020
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Depends on the phantasms, zerker and warden? No. Mage and warlock? yea.



    I meant you would have an extra clone slot not occupied by phantasms.



    They don't have to nerf phantasms because you get an extra meat shield. That is silly. Not to mention NPCs are attacking my phantasms just as much as my clones, the problem is most of the time its 2 clones to 1 phantasms so it seems like they target clones more but in reality you just have more clones.



    Phantasms are not suppose to be mistaken for yourself, that is a given and getting off from my point. Phantasms are suppose to be killed because they are deadly though. I also suggested the shattering component to my phantasms idea which gives different utility.
    Personally I would love to have the phantasms chain into a shatter, that'd be better IMO especially for the instances when I just want the phantasm gone....

    PS: as for the scepter thing I was thinking like as a buff to scepter, not as something to do with the phantasm discussion debate thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

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