1. #2321
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Thieves are just overpowered in general. I get the concept, like they slip away and junk. But why do they get to hit for 24282 damage in 3 hits before they even reappear because of stealth animation? And then just restealth if they fail and wait for cd?

    If anyone wants to cry about OP at least mesmer burst isn't so "fast". Theif damage is literally out of control.
    Idk, i've seen some mesmers that mindwrack me from full to dead and i've got 3k armor, thieves have yet to break through my armor that fast, ESPECIALLY on my mesmer (god mesmers so fun with how trollsy you can be), then again i'm a very twitchy player (which is why i'm so good at hack and slash games and GW2 respectively) so the second i see health drop significantly i tab target something and phase leap backwards, i've noticed that with tab targeting i've managed to target thieves despite the fact i can't actually see them (which is fucking stupid how their stealth bugging is essentially a free kill for them), but have no fear, thieves are going to take the nerf bat up their ass soon, a post by Anet themselves showed up in their forum essentially marking it, they said "We hear a lot of issues about thieves, and we're here to ask more about them" (every thief knows it's not a "we heard you guys were UP! So we're gonna buff ya!" )
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  2. #2322
    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    adding onto this, THE MOST damage you can do with bleeds (1700 condi damage, 25 stacks) is 3187.5 dmg per second, poison is 254 per second, burning is 785 (ish don't feel like doing the math over for that one) and confusion is 4812.5 per attack (25 stacks, 1700 condi dmg), i'd hardly call any of those other than 25 stacks of confusion on a thief/shortbow ranger very bursty... you know, kinda ever? So if you're trying to burst with conditions... yeah i just don't even know... you should probably just go for sustained damage and outlive the enemy, you know, like how pretty much every condition damage build works like ever...
    3.2k dps without counting for the dmg you do as you go means you're killing ppl in under 6sec that's burst.(especially if you count that classes such as the ranger have poison and burning aswell meaning the dps will go up to 4.2k. Dragging the fight out is 50sec fights etc.

    Timing your confusion vs any quickness build means you're doing 20k dmg faster than a thief which is also burst+the enemy can't attack you during that time.
    Last edited by Meledelion; 2012-12-08 at 02:25 AM.

  3. #2323
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meledelion View Post
    3.2k dps without counting for the dmg you do as you go means you're killing ppl in under 6sec that's burst.(especially if you count that classes such as the ranger have poison and burning aswell meaning the dps will go up to 4.2k. Dragging the fight out is 50sec fights etc.

    Timing your confusion vs any quickness build means you're doing 20k dmg faster than a thief which is also burst+the enemy can't attack you during that time.
    Fair enough, but THE weakness for these builds is they're sooooooooo easy to shut down in terms of their burst because it takes literally 1 utility skill and it completely falls to pieces, that being said i'd say being able to CoF for aoe 8 stacks of confusion followed by a quick mindwrack for another 4 (granted it's no 25 stacks) is still some insane burst against quickness, or you do what i do and instead of eating the quickness build you simply reflect it back at them.... ah i love you reflect...

    I'm no burst, but i have 3v1d some backstab thieves and bent them to my will, so much fun watching them squirm!
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  4. #2324
    Also to clarify, that glamour glitter build also uses condi/tough gear, but it's to maximise cond dmg, not to survive longer.
    Again I don't mean to say you're wrong I'm simply trying to explain my reasoning (I expand on this since I know this might come across as hostile while I absolutely don't mean it that way) most builds can be countered by 1utility skill, HB vs stun breaker, backstab vs immunity to dmg,...

    I agree with the cof to 8stacks being brutal it's one of the strongest things out there atm, personally I love cof+null field swap weapons, duelist+feedback if needed, and ofc scepter 3

  5. #2325
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meledelion View Post
    Also to clarify, that glamour glitter build also uses condi/tough gear, but it's to maximise cond dmg, not to survive longer.
    Again I don't mean to say you're wrong I'm simply trying to explain my reasoning (I expand on this since I know this might come across as hostile while I absolutely don't mean it that way) most builds can be countered by 1utility skill, HB vs stun breaker, backstab vs immunity to dmg,...

    I agree with the cof to 8stacks being brutal it's one of the strongest things out there atm, personally I love cof+null field swap weapons, duelist+feedback if needed, and ofc scepter 3
    That's hardly "most builds" those 2 builds you named are BOTH one trick ponies, you survive that hundred blades or backstab and they just go, "Well fuck, there goes that strategy...." you fight against a REAL build (IE one that's less 1 trick pony) and you throw that 1 utility counter out the window.

    Although now that you say you use toughness/cond damage to maximize your condi damage i think you use almost THE SAME build that i originally did before i made some alterations to it.

    PS: CoF 8 stacks + MW 4 stacks + scepter 3 = "lol sucks to be you!"
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  6. #2326
    Anything and everything I come across (dmg wise) can be classified as one trick ponies, thieves mesmers wars and guardians all are basicly one trick ponies (unless they go bunker ofc). The guardian probably least but still "stay at range =>win"

  7. #2327
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meledelion View Post
    Anything and everything I come across (dmg wise) can be classified as one trick ponies, thieves mesmers wars and guardians all are basicly one trick ponies (unless they go bunker ofc). The guardian probably least but still "stay at range =>win"
    by one trick ponies i mean they front load all their damage into one move combo, and should they be unnable to land that combo they have NO damage that is even threatening, guardian bunkers you -could- say are one trick ponies depending on the build (there are some where they are literally useless in team fights other than keeping someone off of a point with 4 skills), the more balanced builds are actually starting to gain in popularity a little, but i still think it'll be a while before people start using them more because the one trick pony builds are currently "working"

    And i've yet to see a mesmer that was a one trick pony, i've seen shatter builds, but that's not the same because if they miss with their mirrior image shatter they usually have a few other fail safes for getting off another one, that and they can also change up how they are going to shatter and can go for damage, condi, control, or just use defense, where a hundred blades warrior can ONLY do a hundred blades burst combo.
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  8. #2328
    Anyone have tips or tricks for a new mesmer? Most guides I've seen are what to do at 80, but I'd like to know what I can do at 18 to be more effective.

  9. #2329
    I never really had issues but some advice, go for direct dmg (power, crit, prec) over condition dmg since the faster mobs die the faster you can move on.

    Even if you don't like the staff carry one around so you can tag stuff in events from a nice distance, same thing goes for torch/scepter just have one with you so you can grab those when you're running (scepter gives swiftness and torch stealth which can be rlly handy

    If you've pulled too many mobs (and don't want to run for ages/repair) log out to character selection and back in.

  10. #2330
    Quote Originally Posted by Meledelion View Post
    I never really had issues but some advice, go for direct dmg (power, crit, prec) over condition dmg since the faster mobs die the faster you can move on.

    Even if you don't like the staff carry one around so you can tag stuff in events from a nice distance, same thing goes for torch/scepter just have one with you so you can grab those when you're running (scepter gives swiftness and torch stealth which can be rlly handy

    If you've pulled too many mobs (and don't want to run for ages/repair) log out to character selection and back in.
    1 minor correction, you mean offhand focus for swiftness, not scepter (which is a main hand weapon).

  11. #2331
    So I made a new build and it trumps theives in their place one on one and 2 vs 1 if you know what you are doing.

    It can handle 3 or 4 people depending on how good the players are. Usually I can kill 4 people at one time if they are bad. I rape one trick pony mesmers (gs shatter mesmers) and necromancers. The only counter it has is d/d ele but if you can time your bleed stacking right after water attunement you might pull off a kill.

    http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=...C;1KJG4KJG42ZV

    OMG a scepter? Well don't look at it too heavily I use it as my secondary weapon to pop Iduelist, stun, and lolconfusionray

    You will be focusing on staff here. Between decoy, blink, and phase retreat theives and warriors won't touch you with their burst.

    Pretty simple minded build. Stay staff, dodge for clones, switch to scepter/pistol when you can get off the stun and Iduelist is free 8 stacks of bleeds combined with 6 stacks of confusion.

    The weakness of this build is conditions and d/d ele. Usually necromancers will kill themselves. They put a 16 stack of bleed on me I use arcane theivery to transfer it. But if arcane thievery is down you have to play defensively against necros who have their scepter equipped to avoid bleed stacks.

    Ele's just have too much surv. I can usually get them right after water attunement but neither of us dies in a one on one.

    Moa is stupid. I like mass invis (though I don't justify it as a elite). It's good in a pickle when you are dealing with conditions with runes of lyssa.

    In PvE same build but I switch scepter out for GS (since iduelist bleeds don't transfer with condition durations) for peeling. GS can peel off enemy's from your friends. I switch out decoy for signet of illusions (but switch it according the the encounter) and arcane theivery for null field.

    http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=...C;1KJG4KJG42Zx
    Last edited by zito; 2012-12-11 at 02:55 PM.

  12. #2332
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    I'm surprised you're even touching a scepter Zito, you hate those things lol!! I'm personally gonna stick to my Chaotic Illusions Build, it's very tanky, very douchey and massacres 1 trick ponies (which are the current "meta" ATM incase you were wondering xD)
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  13. #2333
    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    I'm surprised you're even touching a scepter Zito, you hate those things lol!! I'm personally gonna stick to my Chaotic Illusions Build, it's very tanky, very douchey and massacres 1 trick ponies (which are the current "meta" ATM incase you were wondering xD)
    I only use scepter for the confusion beam when I know I can get all 5 stacks off. Other then that it's for my offhand. Sword wouldn't work for MH over scepter because im condition stacking.

    I still don't use block because of the delay or when there is more then 1 foe. I can crit and gain vigor for dodges which turns out better.

  14. #2334
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    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    I only use scepter for the confusion beam when I know I can get all 5 stacks off. Other then that it's for my offhand. Sword wouldn't work for MH over scepter because im condition stacking.

    I still don't use block because of the delay or when there is more then 1 foe. I can crit and gain vigor for dodges which turns out better.
    I've mastered the Mesmer blocks, it's AWESOME, and have I put my Narcisist build up here yet?
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  15. #2335
    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    I've mastered the Mesmer blocks, it's AWESOME,
    Not saying I haven't, I occasionally use it when I'm out of dodges against a warriors obvious charge or something, but it's really underwhelming because of the delay and against multiple foes its really easy and quick to block the wrong attack. Plus I want staff clones out not scepter.

    and have I put my Narcisist build up here yet?
    Don't think so.

  16. #2336
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    This, is the narcissist build:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQRAr...OlkKtKYUwGiJEA

    The entire goal behind this build is build up as many CLONES as possible and blend in with them as you leap in and out to completely wreck people with all the added damage and durability you have. This build i feel plays mesmer to some of its strengths, it takes advantage of clones and peoples lack of interest in killing them, as well as making it VERY easy for you to regain them, in addition to this you are deceitfully hard to kill.

    You have garbage amounts of health and armor, however, if you can maintain the 3 illusions you will have a passive 9% less damage intake, and when you shatter your illusions with cry of frustration, or block (which you have 2 of) you gain retaliation making them just take more and more punishment when they attack you. The weapon set up is PRIMARILY scepter/sword for me, but once my blocks are gone (and thus i have about 8s of retaliation) i swap over to the sword and go a little crazier on the damage side because if you take damage, they're just hurting themselves.

    One thing to make sure not to do with this build is shatter -too- much, shatter at opportune times, this isn't a shatter build, but your clone generation can be high enough where you can blow a mind wrack and be back up to 3 clones again pretty easily, just make sure you always have at least 3 illusions active.

    For the utilities there is A LOT of room to work around, i put the ones i normally use, as well as my elite of choice, however pretty much anything can work, i use decoy so i can slip away undetected as they struggle to figure out where i actually am, and then i take the mantra of daze to make sure i can get the kill by interrupting a heal.

    There is also some trait variation, for example you could drop the last 10pts or so in dueling and put that over into illusions, change the amulet so you have a more condition oriented build, however i wouldn't because you wont gain as much of an advantage from the illusions, but it will work if you -really- want to do that.

    PS: i fucked up in the traits you're supposed to take Confusing Cry, not Master of Misdirection, however both can work.
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
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  17. #2337
    I am Murloc! Thelxi's Avatar
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    So, apparantly we will be getting a more reliable swiftness source tomorrow. Tbh mesmer being the absolute slowest profession out of combat was one of the things that really turned me off. Doing a jumping puzzle, map completion and wvw was so much smoother on my ele, that I always felt crippled on my mesmer doing the same things.

    Of course tomorrow elementalists get 25% passive movement increase baked into their old 10% movement speed sigil, on top of their swiftnesses. Necromancer and ranger also get a 25% passive movement speed increase. Thieves obviously can already move fast. So in the end, we will probably still be the turtles of group. I know that swiftness is the movement speed cap for everyone, but 25% passive movement speed increase when you don't have swiftness up is quite a big deal for out of combat mobility. I am sick of centaur runes and having to gear for decent ooc mobility.
    Last edited by Thelxi; 2012-12-13 at 10:32 AM.

  18. #2338
    Well I'm pretty much contempt that they don't know what they are doing with mesmers.

    He said the changes are mostly swiftness

    seriously....

    i dont even...

    why the f are you buffing 3/4 the classes speed. Just buff baseline speed and work on real f'en issues.

  19. #2339
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    So, apparantly we will be getting a more reliable swiftness source tomorrow. Tbh mesmer being the absolute slowest profession out of combat was one of the things that really turned me off. Doing a jumping puzzle, map completion and wvw was so much smoother on my ele, that I always felt crippled on my mesmer doing the same things.

    Of course tomorrow elementalists get 25% passive movement increase baked into their old 10% movement speed sigil, on top of their swiftnesses. Necromancer and ranger also get a 25% passive movement speed increase. Thieves obviously can already move fast. So in the end, we will probably still be the turtles of group. I know that swiftness is the movement speed cap for everyone, but 25% passive movement speed increase when you don't have swiftness up is quite a big deal for out of combat mobility. I am sick of centaur runes and having to gear for decent ooc mobility.
    Actually, swiftness isn't a cap, I'm pretty sure swiftness STACKS with 25% I know I've tested it on the 10% signets and swiftness stacks with that.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-13 at 06:53 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Well I'm pretty much contempt that they don't know what they are doing with mesmers.

    He said the changes are mostly swiftness

    seriously....

    i dont even...

    why the f are you buffing 3/4 the classes speed. Just buff baseline speed and work on real f'en issues.
    Tbh I see why they're buffing rangers and eles speed since they said previously them and theives are supposed to be the most mobile, but then necros got a buff and last I checked they were supposed to be a sort of slow crawl you will not escape me sort of thing...
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  20. #2340
    Necromancers are the easiest to get away from and theives who have the best mobility and get aways in the game have also the highest burst in the game.

    Does either of that make sense?

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