1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Just by watching a couple of videos, mesmer has some glaring issues.

    -Mantras are lackluster (pain's damage is a joke)
    -Lack of pistol synergy with traits
    -Lack of pistol mainhand
    -Portals only last 1 minute or 2-3 teleports
    -Clones slow spawning and being unresponsive
    -Phantasms are weak
    -Over reliance on invisibility to make clone distraction work
    -A lot of traits being complete crap
    -Elite skills being meh
    u seem to know more then i do, so i take you by your word...and this makes me cry ;_;

  2. #222
    Don't listen to him, he's being a negative nancy. In large scale battles it was really hard to keep track of where the mesmers were, especially with the stealth skills that they've got. Well timed shatter bursts, plus mobility, condition damage, plus stealth, plus the chaos three illusions can cause really makes mesmers an intriguing class.

    Lots of utility, support, and damage. What's not to like?

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Sundreamer View Post
    u seem to know more then i do, so i take you by your word...and this makes me cry ;_;
    I've marked the important part in bold for you.
    Just by watching a couple of videos, mesmer has some glaring issues.

    -Mantras are lackluster (pain's damage is a joke)
    -Lack of pistol synergy with traits
    -Lack of pistol mainhand
    -Portals only last 1 minute or 2-3 teleports
    -Clones slow spawning and being unresponsive
    -Phantasms are weak
    -Over reliance on invisibility to make clone distraction work
    -A lot of traits being complete crap
    -Elite skills being meh
    Hes actually just basing his complaints, while a cute list, on a couple of videos. Simply put his point is moot until this is tested.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by GrodinLB View Post
    Don't listen to him, he's being a negative nancy. In large scale battles it was really hard to keep track of where the mesmers were, especially with the stealth skills that they've got. Well timed shatter bursts, plus mobility, condition damage, plus stealth, plus the chaos three illusions can cause really makes mesmers an intriguing class.

    Lots of utility, support, and damage. What's not to like?
    It's called paying attention. Instead of looking at all those "lots of numbers" scrolling the screen or pretty mechanics you should pay attention to what goes on in those videos.

    Hes actually just basing his complaints, while a cute list, on a couple of videos. Simply put his point is moot until this is tested.
    The press was invited to beta, a beta in which you test things. A few things I just added for personal preference (main hand pistol), but overall the other things have been pretty lackluster such as mantras,clone responsiveness,useless traits like fall damage chaos storm and extra range on your phantasms pistol and 50 toughness while using a staff.
    Last edited by zito; 2012-03-03 at 10:48 PM.
    Pokemon FC: 4425-2708-3610

    I received a day one ORAS demo code. I am a chosen one.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    The press was invited to beta, a beta in which you test things. A few things I just added for personal preference (main hand pistol), but overall the other things have been pretty lackluster such as mantras,clone responsiveness,useless traits like fall damage chaos storm and extra range on your phantasms pistol and 50 toughness while using a staff.
    And yet, you did not play that beta, you compiled your list of complaints through
    Just by watching a couple of videos, mesmer has some glaring issues.
    As the press beta hardly had any form of min-maxers present to test wether or not any of the following is true:
    -Mantras are lackluster (pain's damage is a joke)
    -Lack of pistol synergy with traits
    -Lack of pistol mainhand
    -Portals only last 1 minute or 2-3 teleports
    -Clones slow spawning and being unresponsive
    -Phantasms are weak
    -Over reliance on invisibility to make clone distraction work
    -A lot of traits being complete crap
    -Elite skills being meh

    Your entire list really remains moot.

    However I will humor you by adressing a couple of your 'points', the ones commented on in italic.

    The mesmer doesn't "lack" a pistol mainhand, you may want one, but thats just not the mesmer, you want a mainhand gun, roll another class.

    Traits being 'crap' in your view, just means you most likely will go for other traits more suitable to your own playstyle, the class is very versatile (albeit somewhat too reliant on illusions) and it offers a vast number of options when it comes to varying your playstyle, doesn't make them crap tho.

    The portals lasts 1 minute for a reason, it only allows '2-3' jumps for a reason. That reason is pvp, 1min is even abit long for pvp, but any shorter would probably not really let you use all 3 jumps properly so I don't think it is viable to have it much shorter, perhaps 1.30 would be better.
    They're most likely going to be just right for pvp tho, their use in pve is abit more questionable tho.



    However once again, you've based your entire list on what you've seen in videos made by press, once we get a larger amount of people testing it, you might end up being right but as of right now, moot.

  6. #226
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Isle of Faces
    Posts
    15,040
    Quote Originally Posted by luedieniel View Post
    The mesmer doesn't "lack" a pistol mainhand, you may want one, but thats just not the mesmer, you want a mainhand gun, roll another class.
    I see it as a problem specifically because the illusionary duelist dual-wields pistols. It's kind've a slap in the face.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    I see it as a problem specifically because the illusionary duelist dual-wields pistols. It's kind've a slap in the face.
    You have to accept that phantasms are able to do things you are not. Just because a Phantasm can whirl into battle with Phantasmal Berserker, do you expect the Mesmer to also do this? Moot.

  8. #228
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Isle of Faces
    Posts
    15,040
    Quote Originally Posted by nighties View Post
    You have to accept that phantasms are able to do things you are not. Just because a Phantasm can whirl into battle with Phantasmal Berserker, do you expect the Mesmer to also do this? Moot.
    He's still wielding a Greatsword at least.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by luedieniel View Post
    The mesmer doesn't "lack" a pistol mainhand, you may want one, but thats just not the mesmer, you want a mainhand gun, roll another class.
    refer to this

  10. #230
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Isle of Faces
    Posts
    15,040
    Quote Originally Posted by nighties View Post
    refer to this
    Look, there is just plain and simple no logical reason, at all, to give your phantasm 2 pistols when you can only wield one in the off-hand. None, at all.

    They should either give the Duelist phantasm one pistol only, or give the Mesmer main-hand pistol. I personally would love to see what kind of trickery a pistol-slinging Mesmer could perform, but apparently you still subscribe to the concept of limiting creativity rather than fostering it.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    They should either give the Duelist phantasm one pistol only, or give the Mesmer main-hand pistol. I personally would love to see what kind of trickery a pistol-slinging Mesmer could perform, but apparently you still subscribe to the concept of limiting creativity rather than fostering it.
    Agreed let's just take away phantasms dual wielding to make you feel better.

    Might as well give them the ability to use SHIELDS too since I'm curious how they can do that! And axes! And bows! And anything else my imagination might love to see! Look, it's clear that the devs have the intention of balancing the classes. Giving them the mesmer a pistol, another main hand range weapon (1h) besides the scepter, could upset the balance. I don't know I never played the game and I trust the devs to know more about it than me or you.

    Mesmers can't dual wield pistols, their phantasms can. Accept this and move on.

    You subscribe to the idea of things being given to you without much real thought on the consequences. I rather play with my available options and make best of what is given to me rather than be part of the endless QQ ocean about what could have been.

    Or roll another class, it's your choice.

  12. #232
    And yet, you did not play that beta, you compiled your list of complaints through
    Yea a list threw beta videos in which people tested the content. Stay with us now.

    Your entire list really remains moot.
    It's called paying attention. Instead of looking at all those "lots of numbers" scrolling the screen or pretty mechanics you should pay attention to what goes on in those videos.
    I choose to be a realist, I'm not always going to sit back and say yea hey this is awesome. There are issues you can clearly tell, mantra of pain doing the almost the same damage as a spam attack, portals lasting 1 minute with limited charges in PvP is really short, even for PvP, some traits are clearly just blah. In a game where your suppose to weapon switch a lot taking 50 toughness to a specific weapon not only limits that trait to one weapon but it encourages non weapon swapping. Plus there is a trait which gives 30 toughness per illusion out which is not only better but gives more flexibility no matter what spec you are and you can pick more worth whiled traits instead of that crappy one. That's just one example.

    However once again, you've based your entire list on what you've seen in videos made by press, once we get a larger amount of people testing it, you might end up being right but as of right now, moot.
    You don't seem to understand that a test is a test, no matter the number of people. You also don't understand how many people were actually testing beta.
    Pokemon FC: 4425-2708-3610

    I received a day one ORAS demo code. I am a chosen one.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    -snip-
    Oh goody, where to start?

    I think I'll begin with the small hominem you threw in at the very end there.
    Let us begin with the following: I do not have a full list of the participants in the beta, I do not have the exact amount of people participating in the beta all together nor do I have the amount of people playing as a mesmer in this particular betaphase and then the thing worth noting is that: Neither do you.
    And even if you do, you've still failed to provide any sort of documentation presenting a foundation that would declare that 'this is how many people participating AS a mesmer"
    You would also have to demonstrate that 'this percentage of the mesmers used said trait because it is simply too good to pass up compared to other traits'.
    Obviously tho you can't do either so yet again, moot point.
    You see, the only thing you've done so far is observe a certain amount of videos and through these videos you've formed the opinion that the class is lacking and that they should add a new main weapon, that since a certain trait exists, no other trait is a viable choice, that the damage of certain skills are lower than what you expect them to be.

    But unfortunately it still only remains an opinion, until we can test it on a larger scale.
    This is also where your little statement about me not understanding that 'a test is a test' becomes utterly silly.
    You're obviously correct, a test is a test! However a larger scaled test gives the observers more points of data, more points of data in general leads to more accurate results.


    Your list of points is nothing but your personal opinion and you haven't even gotten a chance to test wether or not any part of your list actually holds up.
    However lets focus on your last post, the one about me being uncapable of understanding wether or not a test is a test or if the test is not a test.


    mantra of pain doing the almost the same damage as a spam attack
    I'm abit curious about this one and it might actually be true.
    However it also might be a scaling issue?
    Either way, I'll withhold judgement on this spell until I get to test it out myself.

    portals lasting 1 minute with limited charges in PvP is really short
    Surely you must be joking, 60 seconds is ALOT of time in PvP, that is all.

    some traits are clearly just blah
    Yes, some traits will be just bleh for my playstyle aswell, but that doesn't mean that the trait is useless across the board, it just won't be a viable choice for me.

    In a game where your suppose to weapon switch a lot taking 50 toughness to a specific weapon not only limits that trait to one weapon but it encourages non weapon swapping.
    I can think of countless scenarios where this would be perfectly viable for weaponswapping in PvP.
    short one: You've got 2 weapons, the one with toughness lets you be abit more tanklike, so when you're under pressure, you maintain the weapon with +50 toughness. Once pressure drops, you're free to start rotating again.
    Plus there is a trait which gives 30 toughness per illusion out which is not only better but gives more flexibility no matter what spec you are and you can pick more worth whiled traits instead of that crappy one
    No, this relies on your illusions staying alive long enough for this to start stacking up, the +50 toughness simply becomes passive whereas the +30 toughness per illusion forces you to maintain illusions up at all times, may not be the easiest to do when you end up in larger fights.

    Clearly you can pick these traits to suit your own playstyle, I highly doubt all of them will be equally appealing but I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss all but 1 simply based on a handful of videos.



    Personally my only concern with the mesmer atm is that it will most likely be heavily reliant on illusions rather than the original GW1 mesmer that were just a complete mindf**k towards the opposing players.

  14. #234
    Okey, guys you really need to chill before this gets out of hand.
    The traits will be updated probably, read in some thread they'll have 12-15 traits per "line" and not only 6. It was some screen shot, I guess someone got the link.
    And the traits, if they're bad, will be improved because A-net will have every class balanced with eachother.

  15. #235
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    3,650
    @Zito, i fail to see how the traits are any different from the other profs... I know rangers have a -15% to recharge rates for all their weapons (IE your short sword skills have 15% shorter recharge) That's essentially the same as the +50 toughness while wielding X weapon.. As for mantra of pain i'm not going to even pretend to know how much damage it does, but make sure you know whether or not a lot of it was absorbed or what not in what ever video you were watching.. I fully agree on the Elite skills one, i think they're fairly lack luster, if the moa one was an aoe one i'd probably be in love with it, and i haven't seen that quickness one used well AT ALL so i'm going to with hold my judgement on that... I personally thought the clones and phantasams were fine, and I haven't seen anyone use a pistol in their off hand so idk how that'll work, it seems like it'd be fine with just about any main hand though...

    @Drakewurrum, Don't be an idiot, if you've noticed ANYTHING from the phantasams you'd realize they don't do ANYTHING the mesmer can do themself... and using your logic the mesmer should also be able to wield 2 axes like the illusionary warden, or be able to buff your allies and debuff your enemies like an illusionary mage...
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  16. #236
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Isle of Faces
    Posts
    15,040
    Quote Originally Posted by nighties View Post
    Mesmers can't dual wield pistols, their phantasms can. Accept this and move on.
    It's not about just "accepting it" it's pure fact that there's absolutely no reason to give them two pistols. Why should I just accept something that doesn't make sense? It's not about balancing the classes out, it's about just making logical sense with your class design. Plain and simple, either the mesmer gets to dual-wield too, or the phantasm doesn't dual-wield. I don't see how that doesn't make sense, and at this point you're just arguing against me for the sake of arguing.

    It seems you're not ever going to reach the point where you can even agree with the base concept of the problem here, but will instead throw out the kind of logic that WoW fanatics do anytime somebody questions WoW mechanics/design, despite the fact that this is a game that's not done being developed.
    Last edited by DrakeWurrum; 2012-03-04 at 08:05 PM.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    It seems you're not ever going to reach the point where you can even agree with the base concept of the problem here, but will instead throw out the kind of logic that WoW fanatics do anytime somebody questions WoW mechanics/design, despite the fact that this is a game that's not done being developed.
    The 'problem' is that the only person seeing this as a 'problem' is you, therefor there is no base concept to agree upon, we don't even agree that the problem exists.

  18. #238
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Isle of Faces
    Posts
    15,040
    Quote Originally Posted by luedieniel View Post
    The 'problem' is that the only person seeing this as a 'problem' is you, therefor there is no base concept to agree upon, we don't even agree that the problem exists.
    It is absolutely a problem, it's just not a mechanics problem - it's a design/concept problem. It's only logical to be sure that the illusions a Mesmer summons are wielding weapons that the Mesmer can actually wield. Mesmers right now don't know how to use a pistol in the main-hand, or at least choose not to and as such are unfamiliar with the combat style - summoning an illusion that does dual-wield pistols is not something a Mesmer would do, because it's not something the Mesmer himself does. It's not about being tricky or deceiving (obviously, phantasm), but the simple fact that the Mesmer does not dual-wield pistols. He's imparting a skill that he does not possess on an illusionary version of himself, even if that illusionary version is glowing pink and transparent. At least when he summons a phantasm with a greatsword, the phantasm has just a basic "IMA SWINGING MY SWORD GET OUTTA DA WAY" idea behind it and, above all else, it's still a greatsword.

    I'd be perfectly happy if they just changed it to be wielding a single pistol, or matching the mesmer's X/Pistol set, but I see no reason to NOT go the other way. The Scepter skill set would work completely different from the Pistol skill set, while also giving players an entirely new flavor of combat to play with.
    Honestly, how is a Mesmer capable of performing a "trick shot" with his off-hand pistol, but doesn't have the knowledge, skill, or training to just plain fire it normally? From the other hand even?

    Illogical design is always a problem.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by luedieniel View Post
    The 'problem' is that the only person seeing this as a 'problem' is you, therefor there is no base concept to agree upon, we don't even agree that the problem exists.
    Please don't generalize that he is the only person who views it as a problem, or the voice that says everyone else agrees that it isn't a problem.

    My personal view on it is that it doesn't make sense, and I would like to dual wield pistols but can't.
    Not being able to use Dual Pistols is like a thief being unable to Dual Wield swords but a Mesmer can to me.

    Thieves should be able to DW Swords because a mainly a range oriented class like a Mesmer can.
    Mesmers should be able to DW Pistols because a mainly melee oriented class can.

    (also thieves have one less weapon then everyone last time I checked, they could easily add in a Dual Sword)

    And the fact that Clones/Phantasms can DW Pistols makes me a sad panda.
    Last edited by Allanon the Mystic; 2012-03-04 at 08:30 PM.
    - Guild Wars 2 Characters -
    Senari of the Woad | Riven Lightsbane | Cain the Mystic


  20. #240
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Isle of Faces
    Posts
    15,040
    Quote Originally Posted by Allanon the Mystic View Post
    Please don't generalize that he is the only person who views it as a problem, or the voice that says everyone else agrees that it isn't a problem.

    My personal view on it is that it doesn't make sense, and I would like to dual wield pistols but can't.
    Not being able to use Dual Pistols is like a thief being unable to Dual Wield swords but a Mesmer can to me.

    Thieves should be able to DW Swords because a mainly a range oriented class like a Mesmer can.
    Mesmers should be able to DW Pistols because a mainly melee oriented class can.

    (also thieves have one less weapon then everyone last time I checked, they could easily add in a Dual Sword)

    And the fact that Clones/Phantasms can DW Pistols makes me a sad panda.
    That, also, is completely illogical. :S

    I may be getting overly passionate with my rants, but it just... makes no sense to me to have that design.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •