1. #2521
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    How useful is Mass Invisibility? I'm at that point where I have all the 'important' slot skills and am trying to decide if saving up 30 points for MI is worth it or if I should get the cheaper skills first.
    I can't say in PvE, but in WvW and PvP it can be a game changer.
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  2. #2522
    If you use it in PvP you deserve an ass-kicking. Moa and TW are far more game-changing than invisibility. If you want group invis ask a thief since their cd is shorter and the stealth is longer.

  3. #2523
    The Lightbringer Karizee's Avatar
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    Grimm, the creator of the Seven Mirror Mesmer Build speaks on Mesmerized (the mesmer only podcast)

    http://sittingonacouch.com/the-gw2-m...-seven-mirror/
    Morpheus: Do you believe that my being stronger or faster has anything to do with my muscles in this place? Do you think that's air you're breathing now?

  4. #2524
    Quote Originally Posted by Meledelion View Post
    If you use it in PvP you deserve an ass-kicking. Moa and TW are far more game-changing than invisibility. If you want group invis ask a thief since their cd is shorter and the stealth is longer.
    TW has no place in a zerg with a cap of 5 people. Not that Zerg pvp matters anyway.

    Moa is nice for 1 vs X putting 1 person out of the picture for 10 seconds. Or you can Mass stealth yourself and get everyone off your back.

    And theives can't spam stealth on allys the more stealths the better. Mass invisibility in PvP has been a game changer for solo and some small group play.

    In PvE it's pretty worthless only used to run past trash in most situations. Moa again lackluster on bosses but can save a life if timed right but TW in PvE is pretty much standard.

  5. #2525
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    TW has no place in a zerg with a cap of 5 people. Not that Zerg pvp matters anyway.

    Moa is nice for 1 vs X putting 1 person out of the picture for 10 seconds. Or you can Mass stealth yourself and get everyone off your back.

    And theives can't spam stealth on allys the more stealths the better. Mass invisibility in PvP has been a game changer for solo and some small group play.

    In PvE it's pretty worthless only used to run past trash in most situations. Moa again lackluster on bosses but can save a life if timed right but TW in PvE is pretty much standard.
    PvP only has 5people...

    Mass stealth only helps you, in this scenario while if you put up either moa or TW you help your entire team.

    You don't want to spam stealth, I never even spoke of spam stealth. I said GROUP stealth. Mass invis for solo play is useless since you can't do anything while stealthed as opposed to other classes. Moa would be far better in this scenario since you basically CC the other party giving you all the room to do w/e you want.

    If you want to get away from group fights you put up your portal and get out...

  6. #2526
    Quote Originally Posted by Meledelion View Post
    PvP only has 5people...

    Mass stealth only helps you, in this scenario while if you put up either moa or TW you help your entire team.

    You don't want to spam stealth, I never even spoke of spam stealth. I said GROUP stealth. Mass invis for solo play is useless since you can't do anything while stealthed as opposed to other classes. Moa would be far better in this scenario since you basically CC the other party giving you all the room to do w/e you want.

    If you want to get away from group fights you put up your portal and get out...
    Portal is a utility if we are comparing escape methods of an elite stick with an elite. Not to mention it has a timer attached to it.

    Secondly Mass invis works for cordinated teams. I've saved a lot of people when they get downed by mass stealthing them. Endless sneak attacks and get aways.

    To say someone should get an ass kicking for using a mass invis in pvp or any pvp is stupid on your part. TW can be completely wasted and moa is nice to get that one person down but you can save lives with mass invis.

    Yea sure mass invis sucks when it's a pug but so does Moa and TW. I've had people run away from TW because they think its the enemy's. I've been chained CC threw TW. I don't find it any useful in PvP compared to MI.

  7. #2527
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Portal is a utility if we are comparing escape methods of an elite stick with an elite. Not to mention it has a timer attached to it.

    Secondly Mass invis works for cordinated teams. I've saved a lot of people when they get downed by mass stealthing them. Endless sneak attacks and get aways.

    To say someone should get an ass kicking for using a mass invis in pvp or any pvp is stupid on your part. TW can be completely wasted and moa is nice to get that one person down but you can save lives with mass invis.

    Yea sure mass invis sucks when it's a pug but so does Moa and TW. I've had people run away from TW because they think its the enemy's. I've been chained CC threw TW. I don't find it any useful in PvP compared to MI.
    NO mate, you want to use MI as an escape while you already have a far better tool on your skillbar, this means that you're waisting either one of those spots. Clearly you're wasting your elite. (If you're not bringing portal to PvP please refrain from ever Qing again...)

    Sure, but TW rez saves ppl just as well. Or moaing the stomper,... Or you know abusing stuff like AoE knockback/interupts or the best part of all Illusion of life...
    You have so many tools to help people rez already I don't see the point of bringing MI for this.

    If you want sneak attacks bring a thief, shadow refuge is far better for the thing you're looking for and on a shorter CD.

    Moa is a great turning point for team games. You can turn a 4v5 into a 4v4, be completely safe from anything you want for 10s (twice as long as MI) and ensure that CD based classes can't get out. In comparison becoming invisible is hardly useful.

    Let's try and paint a picture. There's two identical teams facing eachother, one team's mesmer has TW and the other team's has MI. What team would you give the advantage to?

  8. #2528
    Quote Originally Posted by Meledelion View Post
    NO mate, you want to use MI as an escape while you already have a far better tool on your skillbar, this means that you're waisting either one of those spots. Clearly you're wasting your elite. (If you're not bringing portal to PvP please refrain from ever Qing again...)

    Sure, but TW rez saves ppl just as well. Or moaing the stomper,... Or you know abusing stuff like AoE knockback/interupts or the best part of all Illusion of life...
    You have so many tools to help people rez already I don't see the point of bringing MI for this.

    If you want sneak attacks bring a thief, shadow refuge is far better for the thing you're looking for and on a shorter CD.

    Moa is a great turning point for team games. You can turn a 4v5 into a 4v4, be completely safe from anything you want for 10s (twice as long as MI) and ensure that CD based classes can't get out. In comparison becoming invisible is hardly useful.

    Let's try and paint a picture. There's two identical teams facing eachother, one team's mesmer has TW and the other team's has MI. What team would you give the advantage to?
    Lol listening to you debate about needing portal and TW in PvP is hilarious (I don't even have to dig your grave you are doing it yourself) but to answer your question If my team Mass invis your teams TW what exactly are you going to hit with that TW (which was nerfed) when everyone is invisible? And then we get the upper hand with a surprise attack charge and you have to deal with a wasted elite and a suprise jump.

    Lastly if in a Tpvp and 5 people are fighting the other 5 people that is pretty stupid.

  9. #2529
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Lol listening to you debate about needing portal and TW in PvP is hilarious (I don't even have to dig your grave you are doing it yourself) but to answer your question If my team Mass invis your teams TW what exactly are you going to hit with that TW (which was nerfed) when everyone is invisible? And then we get the upper hand with a surprise attack charge and you have to deal with a wasted elite and a suprise jump.

    Lastly if in a Tpvp and 5 people are fighting the other 5 people that is pretty stupid.
    That's why every team uses a mesmer with portal and either TW or Moa right?

    You don't come ahead in that scenario at all. What happens is that you're both on even footing...
    What kind of a surprise will there be If I see you stealth? Also it's quite easy to use temporal curtain to insta grip the moment you break stealth...
    You also do realise that lots of games are about who has the better group fight right?

    It's quite obvious you don't have any pvp experience above r30 tPvP, I'd even go as far to say that you don't have any tPvP experience at all.

  10. #2530
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Lol listening to you debate about needing portal and TW in PvP is hilarious (I don't even have to dig your grave you are doing it yourself) but to answer your question If my team Mass invis your teams TW what exactly are you going to hit with that TW (which was nerfed) when everyone is invisible? And then we get the upper hand with a surprise attack charge and you have to deal with a wasted elite and a suprise jump.

    Lastly if in a Tpvp and 5 people are fighting the other 5 people that is pretty stupid.
    Huh, what we normally do in 5v5's is force their TW, i MI and we just leave, go cap the other 2 points and come out totally ahead in that scenario, then again my team is designed around 1v1s to 2v3s and disengaging from team fights, divide and conquer + map control.

    PS: I do not use portal, it'd be a bit of a waste when i could take something more useful like blink instead.
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  11. #2531
    This
    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    then again my team is designed around 1v1s to 2v3s and disengaging from team fights, divide and conquer + map control.
    Doesn't work vs portal teams since you simply lose the 2v1 or w/e you're fighting since the mesmer can portal people back.

    Quick scenario scetch;
    Red teams cap "close", blue caps "far" and middle is contested. Team red has a portal at close but team blue doesn't. The team fight is quite even so now there's 2options:

    1. Red goes for far meaning blue caps mid but loses far. Now blue can go for the group fight at far but since we already know that this is a stalemate it makes more sense to go for close. As we know atm it's red 2 (outers) and blue mid. Red now falls back to mid meaning at this time it's 1outer for red vs 0 for blue. Red puts portals back to close meaning they have 2caps at minimum and blue is fighting a stalemate at close. (You understand that red will win)

    2. Blue goes for close. Red caps mid and portals back to close. This means it is now an uneven match at close putting the previous stalemate in red's favor. 2-1 for red (red wins).

    Not bringing portal severely cripples your team the moment you're playing vs someone who does. This is a very big risk to take and IMO not worth it, especially if you know that bringing portal gives you quite the advantage vs ppl who don't. The only IF to this scenario is that your team is using VOIP, if you're not you can hardly call yourself a pvp-team anyway...

  12. #2532
    Saw this new "glass cannon" build and thinking of trying it:

    http://www.gw2db.com/skills/calc/mes...0|0|0|0|0|0|0|

    Here's the video for the build:



    Discussion thread on the official forums:

    https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/foru...-cannon-mesmer
    Last edited by Lane; 2013-06-09 at 07:57 PM.

  13. #2533
    What's the point of that build Lane? Where and what do you want to use it for?

    I wouldn't use it to go in dungeons due to defiant, for the same reason you can't farm events with veteran mobs and in pvp mantras have too much of a build-up in comparison to a normal shatter or phantasm build.

    Phantasm builds in general aren't great for most PvE (which afaik is your main focus) due to the nature of them disappearing once you kill a mob and on mobs that actually live longer than 2sec insta-kill phantasms.

    Empowering mantras doesn't buff phantasm damage so that's a bit weird, it would work better for shatter builds since it'll actually boost your main source of damage.

    Now some things that come from memory.

    1. Mantra of Pain does less dps than sword auto-attacks and doesn't stack vulnerability
    2. The interrupt talents need to actually interrupt a skill for it to take effect

    To be very blunt, the build sucks.

  14. #2534
    I edited my post to include the source video. He goes over the reasoning behind his choices as well as demonstrates the build in action.

    Added discussion thread too. His notes:

    + up to 25% more damage vs targets
    + phantasms that have 100% chance to critical hit
    + all of the above from the safe distance of 1200 range
    + the fact you are more or less the best interrupter in the game, in this build
    Last edited by Lane; 2013-06-09 at 07:59 PM.

  15. #2535
    He's comparing a shatter build to non shatter but he doesn't know how to play shatter, his traits are wrong, he uses the wrong skills,...

    His total shatter damage was 913+886+2231=4030
    When I shatter (on the same mob) I get 2745+2705+2659+2680=10789

    His one duelist does 6.7k dmg mine does 5.3k.

    Watched his "example" video which is hilarious. It's fotm 26 on one of the easiest bosses... You can see that he only once gets 3phantasms up and that's not even for a second. He also doesn't interrupt once (hur dur defiant...).

    He also forgets that shatter builds have shit tons of clone generation so you don't just Mind Wrack, you also use cry of frustration. Lastly he misses out on team condition removal, team buffing and team reflects...

    As people said on the official forums "This build is really really bad.".
    Last edited by Meledelion; 2013-06-09 at 11:22 PM.

  16. #2536
    Grimm, the creator of the Seven Mirror Mesmer Build speaks on Mesmerized (the mesmer only podcast)

    http://sittingonacouch.com/the-gw2-m...-seven-mirror/
    I still watch his videos sometimes and think, "Scepter? Wot? How does that even work?!" =D

  17. #2537
    Ok.. time to revive this thread xD


    I haven't played for very long time and wanna come back...

    What are viable builds in PvE? Is GS still the best?

    I'm thinking about something new... :
    *confusion scepter/torch
    *boon master staff
    *conditioner staff
    *crit battle mage sword/sword

    Any other propositions?

  18. #2538
    Quote Originally Posted by Roudene View Post
    Ok.. time to revive this thread xD


    I haven't played for very long time and wanna come back...

    What are viable builds in PvE? Is GS still the best?

    I'm thinking about something new... :
    *confusion scepter/torch
    *boon master staff
    *conditioner staff
    *crit battle mage sword/sword

    Any other propositions?
    Torch has a small niche in PvE. It's useless as a condition weapon and a cleanse.

    GS is still the best if you are trying to burst something down or CC something.

    There have only been 2 conditions builds I have actually seen that work. Staff clone condition stacking (with confusion shatters for when your clone summoning is up again) and scepter bomb. Scepter bomb is a phantasm build used with pistol or focus to stack bleeds and then abuse scepter 1 clone spamming to destroy clones and inflict conditions on them.

    The problem is if the target moves a lot when you are doing condition bomb they move out of the bomb part making it pretty useless.

  19. #2539
    Anyway, thanks for making things clear.

    Waiting for more comments!

  20. #2540
    And chaos armor is nerfed to the ground.

    Chaos Armor: This skill no longer automatically applies protection when activated. This buff now provides an equal chance to trigger regeneration, swiftness, or protection on hit with a 1-second internal recharge. The random condition applied now has a 1-second internal recharge per target. These changes apply to the Chaos Armor provided through combo finishers as well.
    R.I.P staff mesmers.

    Hello greatsword again....
    Last edited by zito; 2013-07-09 at 02:13 PM.

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