Mesmer Discussion Thread

[zito]

As for your traits, I feel the last Major you chosen for Illusions to be a bit of a waste (because I favor Staves). The only phantasm at your disposal is Illusionary Mage. You're probably better off with compounding power with 9% damage increase versus faster skill recharge on a 20s CD spell? No brainer there.

I have illusionary mage and warlock, 2 phantasms. I think you are mixing up phantasms recharge time and illusion skill recharge time.

The trait phantasmal haste, reduces the recharge time on phantasm skills (the skills phantasms use) not the actual summon phantasm.

So more retaliations + confusion with illusionary mage and more damage per second with warlock. Which I find more handy over a 9% increase in damage if i have 3 clones out, so at times it will be just 3% or 6%.

I tend to avoid traits like +50 power or +3% increase, it's just boring, they have minimal effects, and there are better utility's out there that I could afford such a low damage buff.

I'm curious to see if confusion has a stack limit. If so I can probably drop a few confusion things like mirror images.

[nighties]

I have illusionary mage and warlock, 2 phantasms. I think you are mixing up phantasms recharge time and illusion skill recharge time.

The trait phantasmal haste, reduces the recharge time on phantasm skills (the skills phantasms use) not the actual summon phantasm.

So more retaliations + confusion with illusionary mage and more damage per second with warlock. Which I find more handy over a 9% increase in damage if i have 3 clones out, so at times it will be just 3% or 6%.

I tend to avoid traits like +50 power or +3% increase, it's just boring, they have minimal effects, and there are better utility's out there that I could afford such a low damage buff.

I'm curious to see if confusion has a stack limit. If so I can probably drop a few confusion things like mirror images.

You're absolutely right 2 phantasms and the skills they used. However, I was referring to the individual cool-downs seeing as how that particular trait is useless if they're not summoned. If you're planning on using Scepter, having 3 Illusions up won't be a difficult task (Pop 1 2 and 3 in 5 seconds and voila, 3 clones). And since you're not particularly trait-ed for Shatter abilities, I'm assuming you're only going to really use your shatters in dire circumstances (burst, damage reduction, etc), meaning 9% increase isn't something that happens "once in awhile".

As far as boring goes, is lowering your phantasms skills, the ones you have no control over besides the initial summoning of said phantasm, more "fun"? The logic behind that confuses me. I was really excited when they changed the damage from "+power for x clones summoned" to percentages. 9% is nothing to scoff about and is far from "Minimal".

Speaking of Confusion, I've seen stacks as high as 9 but they tend to fall off soon after. I, too, am curious what the limit is (based on the best circumstances and not an actual "cap").

[zito]

You're absolutely right 2 phantasms and the skills they used. However, I was referring to the individual cool-downs seeing as how that particular trait is useless if they're not summoned. If you're planning on using Scepter, having 3 Illusions up won't be a difficult task (Pop 1 2 and 3 in 5 seconds and voila, 3 clones). And since you're not particularly trait-ed for Shatter abilities, I'm assuming you're only going to really use your shatters in dire circumstances (burst, damage reduction, etc), meaning 9% increase isn't something that happens "once in awhile".

As far as boring goes, is lowering your phantasms skills, the ones you have no control over besides the initial summoning of said phantasm, more "fun"? The logic behind that confuses me.

Speaking of Confusion, I've seen stacks as high as 9 but they tend to fall off soon after. I, too, am curious what the limit is (based on the best circumstances and not an actual "cap").

I don't need to spec into shatter, to shatter effectively. Like I said before its a confusion build. So the more clones I can put out, the more shatters i can put out, however the main focus is confusion so shatters aren't a main thing.

Fun depends on the player.

I also have 20% faster illusion recharge time so 20 second illusionary mage becomes 16 seconds and I'm assuming the phantasm will last at least 8 seconds.

It is a more bang for your buck kinda thing. I would rather have the extra confusions and retaliations for my team and myself over 9% damage for just myself. Retaliation could just out due 9% damage also.

[nighties]

I don't need to spec into shatter, to shatter effectively. Like I said before its a confusion build. So the more clones I can put out, the more shatters i can put out, however the main focus is confusion so shatters aren't a main thing.

Fun depends on the player.

I also have 20% faster illusion recharge time so 20 second illusionary mage becomes 16 seconds and I'm assuming the phantasm will last at least 8 seconds.

It is a more bang for your buck kinda thing. I would rather have the extra confusions and retaliations for my team and myself over 9% damage for just myself. Retaliation could just out due 9% damage also.

It all really depends on how Confusion works. If the damage is set and doesn't matter how much power/malice you have, then I can see it being worth it. However, if the damage gets compounded with your individual stats, having a Confusion build with 9% increased damage should be something you consider.

Alternatively, you can always just put more points into Illusions (dropping some from Chaos presumably) and have both talents.

Sucky thing is we can't really test out our theory-crafting for another month /cringe.

EDIT: I meant traits!! Traits!! donthurtme

[zito]

Yea the minimum im dropping from chaos though is 5 for now.

Not sure if shattering also applies dissipation or just when someone kills the clone.

Either way clones are gonna die :P

[Robbomb116]

Clones are gonna die yes, but you have alot of clones in your build. The problem with this is if you want to utilize phantasms. As you can have a grand total of 3 illusions, the clones will often force the phantasms to go bye bye. Example: You cast Illusionary Mage. A warrior comers up to and and starts beating on you, so you cast mirror images to try and lose him in your clones. You then dodge away. Oops Because of your traits dodging creates a clone, and since it will put you over 3 illusions your oldest illusion will be replaced by your newest one: your Illusionary Mage was up for 2 secs and is now gone.

Long story short, I believe with that many clones in your build, you can't expect your phantasms to have a good uptime. I would switch out phantasmal haste for Blinding Defuddlement. That way when you switch to your staff, when you randomly apply blind, you apply confusion as well, two conditions for the price of one!

[DrakeWurrum]

Clones are gonna die yes, but you have alot of clones in your build. The problem with this is if you want to utilize phantasms. As you can have a grand total of 3 illusions, the clones will often force the phantasms to go bye bye. Example: You cast Illusionary Mage. A warrior comers up to and and starts beating on you, so you cast mirror images to try and lose him in your clones. You then dodge away. Oops Because of your traits dodging creates a clone, and since it will put you over 3 illusions your oldest illusion will be replaced by your newest one: your Illusionary Mage was up for 2 secs and is now gone.

Long story short, I believe with that many clones in your build, you can't expect your phantasms to have a good uptime. I would switch out phantasmal haste for Blinding Defuddlement. That way when you switch to your staff, when you randomly apply blind, you apply confusion as well, two conditions for the price of one!

All the more reason for being limited to 3 clones and 1 phantasm, instead of 3 illusions of any kind, imo.

I do hope several mesmer players take the time to make sure ANet understands this concern during the pre-purchase betas.

[Robbomb116]

All the more reason for being limited to 3 clones and 1 phantasm, instead of 3 illusions of any kind, imo.

I do hope several mesmer players take the time to make sure ANet understands this concern during the pre-purchase betas.

See instead of the 3 clones and 1 phantasm model, I would prefer to simply have clones replace the oldest clone and phantasms to replace the oldest phantasm. Still limit it to 3 of either, just make it so if you go over 3 illusions with a clone your oldest clone is destroyed even if there is an older phantasm. I think the option to have multiple phantasms still needs to be there.

[DrakeWurrum]

See instead of the 3 clones and 1 phantasm model, I would prefer to simply have clones replace the oldest clone and phantasms to replace the oldest phantasm. Still limit it to 3 of either, just make it so if you go over 3 illusions with a clone your oldest clone is destroyed even if there is an older phantasm. I think the option to have multiple phantasms still needs to be there.

Naw... I don't think multiple phantasms is really that necessary. What you're suggesting means that if you have 2 illusions out and 1 phantasm out, you can't summon a second phantasm or a third clone without shattering them and starting over, which isn't ideal either.

[Eternal Champion]

I'm gonna complain on the look of Phantasms. I don't want them to be some lame purple copy of me, but rather something like this:



I mean, they are distinguishable anyway, why not give them awesome look?

[Pud'n]

If you wanna summon hideous pets that no one will ever love, go roll a Necro. I want my phantasms to be purrty. Though I wouldn't mind if our phantasms had an appearance vastly different from our own.

Giant invisible pink butterflies, make it happen someone.

[Larynx]

I vote for purple/pink laser butterflies.

[Eternal Champion]

If you wanna summon hideous pets that no one will ever love, go roll a Necro. I want my phantasms to be purrty. Though I wouldn't mind if our phantasms had an appearance vastly different from our own.

Giant invisible pink butterflies, make it happen someone.

I'm fine with clones as they are you know-clones, but I'd like Phantasms to be some nightmarish creatures.

[Durzlla]

I'm gonna complain on the look of Phantasms. I don't want them to be some lame purple copy of me, but rather something like this:



I mean, they are distinguishable anyway, why not give them awesome look?

They WERE like that, but it led to to much confusion on what they dd a cording to Anderson they changed it to putty purple ones

[Eternal Champion]

They WERE like that, but it led to to much confusion on what they dd a cording to Anderson they changed it to putty purple ones

Well that's a stupid excuse. Instead of making it work, they took the easy route.

[nighties]

Well that's a stupid excuse. Instead of making it work, they took the easy route.

Would be sort of confusing with WvW and dozens of Phantasms that all look like monsters show up. You'd never know which phantasm did what, who they belonged to, or anything. Only way to fix that is to change each phantasm to have their model but still doesn't fix the problem that your phantasm will look like somebody elses (enemy and team a-like). Changing the Phantasm to reflect its' caster, with a different, purple-translucent appearance fixes this. Easy route doesn't always mean "dumb route". They made it work.

[Pud'n]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_K_eQX4Bus

Crazy huge WvW.

/Gasm

[Allanon the Mystic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_K_eQX4Bus

Crazy huge WvW.

/Gasm

Cool WvW, not much to say about the player though.

[bloodronin]

have a question about a few traits, first question applies to all these traits Crippling Dissipation Clones cripple nearby foes when they are killed, Confusing Combatants Your illusions cause 3 seconds of confusion when they are killed, Debilitating Dissipation Clones apply a random condition to nearby foes when they are killed.
my question is does this effect happen when i shred? or only if a player kills my clones? also other question is for this trait Illusionary Persona When Shattering illusions cause the shatter effect on yourself as well. when i shatter does this count myself as a clone? meaning if im near someone and i shatter mind wrack, n my clones are not near him I would still do damage? also for abilities like diversion it lasts 1 sec per clone, would it last 4 seconds now? not sure if anyone tested this yet, if so pls give me ur feedback

[Pud'n]

1. I would guess those traits you mention would only take into effect if someone killed them, since for them to apply both those effects when either killed/shattered might seem OP. Not to mention there are other traits that specify clone effects that occur under shattering, but not under being killed. This is something a beta tester could answer with more accuracy.

2. No one thus far knows what the Shatter effect on a Mesmer is currently. No beta videos thus far have shown a Mesmer using this trait yet.

3. I do think clones need to run in melee range in order for a shattering to go through. This is different for Distortion and Cry of Frustration however, since they require no target for a shattering.

4. The more clones you have, the more effective your shatters will be.